Time to come down to earth

[Hammy007]

no, please sir, speak your mind, then ill talk

 

[gubbi]

give me one reason the current government should not be thrown out???

You guys voted it in. Let it run its course and then you can vote for the alternative. Even if the alternative is not as bright or appealing as you want to be, its still the best bet. Not your army.

 

[deckingraj]

no, please sir, speak your mind, then ill talk

My intention was to make you talk....Anyways, First of all let me tell you - you are the expert here, we outsiders cannot understand more than you nor can come up with a better solution for Pak....Being a democracy since her inception India has seen many ups and down......By no stretch of imagination we believe that our system is perfect however one thing that we have learnt big time is that a state should own an Army, vice-versa is dangerous....One wrong policy and result can be devastating....Democracy bring in lot of checks and balances which slows down the actions but blends well with a saying - "Slow and Steady wins the race"... If IA gets a chance to run the govt. mark my words MMRCA deal will get finalized by tommorrow and god knows what all goodies we will buy(at a very fast pace)....Another example would be - If IA was incharge during Kargil you would have seen Indian crossing LOC rather than fighting a much difficult war....Results are in front - India gained a lot by not crossing LOC.....We all know how brave(military pov) and idiotic(from geo-politic) was Kargil operation and therfore was destined to fail but PA still went ahead with it...The same blunders can be seen in history - be it 65, be it 71.....Radicalization of Pak was done under Army rule, right???

Now i don't want to lecture you the pros and cons of dictatorship vs civilian govt. here but former is a failed model....Today's world don't appreciate it unless and until you own plenty of oil wells in your backyard.....What is the need of hour is a strong civilian govt. for Pakistan....Yes the current govt. is corrupt but still better than Army control...Reason - Army rule will bring in short term benefits but will hurt in long term....As far as civil govt. is concerned then remember it takes lot of time for democracy to mature....Electoral process takes some time to mature...Once that happens voters will start making politicians accountable and they will have to perform or will face the risk of being shown the door...

A strong civilian govt.(the one with power to draft foreign policy) will shift the focus of Pakistan from Military might to economy...You will have peace with India and moreover so called assets(proving to be menace) will be thrown out into Indian ocean...The dependence or may i say over-dependence on west will decrease...

 

[Meengla]

Well, I think Pakistanis have been brought 'down to Earth' already. I think what Musharraf was proposing to India over Kashmir would have been treason before 9/11 but now more and more people are beginning to talk about.
Anyway, as much as these self-flagellating people here are right about the problems they don't offer solutions except vague terms like 'revolution; China; Gwadar; JF 17; post America Taliban dominated Afghanistan; condemning all politicians; conspiracy theories; Madrassah reforms...'
Where are the solutions? Tangible, immediate, and concrete ones?
To me that is obvious: A realignment of Pakistani state's entire world outlook by making peace with India. The rest is going to fall in place. Pakistan was not some backward Wahabbi Arab country like Yemen or Saudi Arabia as late as late 70's. But the policies pursued in Afghanistan--with India in mind--Pakistan has let lose cancerous elements inside. Now, even in the best outcome in Afghanistan post-America for Pakistan things will not be pretty. More of the same. Draw a trajectory of potential outcomes and you will see still an Afghanistan with proxy wars and a Pakistan with the jihadis roaming around inside.

 

[Che Guevara]

I have no problem with the article, but looking at the bold sentences, I really feel laughing, why should Pakistan government tell it?

The details are gore and gash. It is not feasible to discuss them openly. It is still being discussed if the details should be made public or not

Sounds familiar?

What there to laugh, article is well written.

 

[Bratva]

@ Tfaz,
Sir, I had always thought that this forum is run by ISI or its organization..
..

Like Bharat Rakshak is Run by RAW? where extreme nationalists exist? At least we are more tolerant to criticism then the our neighbours, who are more inclined towards laughing at other wounds, throwing dirts, sarcasms etc etc

 

[origin eagle]

I think it is time for us to stand
for PAKISTAN

 

[pakdefender]

.... what Musharraf was proposing to India over Kashmir would have been treason before 9/11 but now more and more people are beginning to talk about.

what musharraf was prosposing to india about Kashmir was treason then and it'll be treason now also

 

[Hammy007]

You guys voted it in. Let it run its course and then you can vote for the alternative. Even if the alternative is not as bright or appealing as you want to be, its still the best bet. Not your army.

right, we guys voted it in, but did we vote so they they would come and start corruption, they made so many promises according to their mandate that NRO will be abolished, the president would give all his powers to prime minister, the right democracy will be stablished again, even their party PPP made a child the chairperson, this showed PPP after benazir death would persue the policy of inheritance than the real democracy in their party

the voters didnt expect them to do such things, they broke all their promises and are just getting american aid money as bribe to persue american policies

BTW THE DISCUSSION WAS WHY THEY SHOULD NOT BE THROWN OUT, AND THATS NOT A TINY BIT OF SENSIBLE ANSWER, gubbi you are just trying to troll after all.

 

[Hammy007]

My intention was to make you talk....Anyways, First of all let me tell you - you are the expert here, we outsiders cannot understand more than you nor can come up with a better solution for Pak....Being a democracy since her inception India has seen many ups and down......By no stretch of imagination we believe that our system is perfect however one thing that we have learnt big time is that a state should own an Army, vice-versa is dangerous....One wrong policy and result can be devastating....Democracy bring in lot of checks and balances which slows down the actions but blends well with a saying - "Slow and Steady wins the race"... If IA gets a chance to run the govt. mark my words MMRCA deal will get finalized by tommorrow and god knows what all goodies we will buy(at a very fast pace)....Another example would be - If IA was incharge during Kargil you would have seen Indian crossing LOC rather than fighting a much difficult war....Results are in front - India gained a lot by not crossing LOC.....We all know how brave(military pov) and idiotic(from geo-politic) was Kargil operation and therfore was destined to fail but PA still went ahead with it...The same blunders can be seen in history - be it 65, be it 71.....Radicalization of Pak was done under Army rule, right???

Now i don't want to lecture you the pros and cons of dictatorship vs civilian govt. here but former is a failed model....Today's world don't appreciate it unless and until you own plenty of oil wells in your backyard.....What is the need of hour is a strong civilian govt. for Pakistan....Yes the current govt. is corrupt but still better than Army control...Reason - Army rule will bring in short term benefits but will hurt in long term....As far as civil govt. is concerned then remember it takes lot of time for democracy to mature....Electoral process takes some time to mature...Once that happens voters will start making politicians accountable and they will have to perform or will face the risk of being shown the door...

A strong civilian govt.(the one with power to draft foreign policy) will shift the focus of Pakistan from Military might to economy...You will have peace with India and moreover so called assets(proving to be menace) will be thrown out into Indian ocean...The dependence or may i say over-dependence on west will decrease...

bhai sahab im not talking abt army intervention at all, i am talking about the over haul of this fake democracy system, and to snatch away the governance from the elite class to the common pakistani!!!, are you kidding with your post or what??

 

[Hammy007]

what musharraf was prosposing to india about Kashmir was treason then and it'll be treason now also

this meengla guy supports zerdari and peoples party just for the information

 

[Zeeshan360]

Like Bharat Rakshak is Run by RAW? where extreme nationalists exist? At least we are more tolerant to criticism then the our neighbours, who are more inclined towards laughing at other wounds, throwing dirts, sarcasms etc etc

What u said abt extremists in Bharat Rakshak is right .
Bharat Rakshak is India centric forum while defence.pk is an international forum .
Hope u get the difference .

Even moderates like me get suffocated in Bharat Rakshak

 

[1 ummah]

 

[Bail_Gadi_Driver]

Not many are ready to listen, poverty in other nations will decrease, the rest in our region are well on their way while poverty will increase in Pakistan.

We used to be in the ideal position during the 60's and greater part of 70's but things took a turn for worse.

Sadly the reality is that we are poor, we are disliked globally, our past achievements are forgotten and we are not associated with anything good, we have become what we should have been fighting against.

Don't get me wrong, there are still good people and glimmers of hope here, unfortunately the majority does not want to progress.

^^^ Here is a Think Tank.... hope we have more people thinking like you ..... Insha Allha ...we will get out of this too...

 

[manishmaithani]

give me one reason the current government should not be thrown out???

Do you have another better option ?