Thread by request: Issues facing Pakistan and their potential solutions

[M. Sarmad]

But Democratic governments later didn't nullify the law so it has become a Democratic decision.

The Religious Right and Conservative Parties use force and violence to silence those who oppose the supposedly Islamic laws enacted by the illegitimate dictator. Benazir, in fact, tried to amend these laws once she came to power:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/aami...fir-on-dawn-tribun.482800/page-2#post-9286844

 

[VCheng]

Being a Pakistani and Pakistani passport holder, I want my country to implement shariah laws as it was founded in two nation theory.

I can respect that wish, but whose version of sharia laws would you want to implement and how would you get all the different versions to agree to a unified code, if all citizens are to be treated fairly? Please keep in mind this is currently a nation that rarely is able to celebrate Eid on the same day.

 

[PakSword]

The Religious Right and Conservative Parties use force and violence to silence those who oppose the supposedly Islamic laws enacted by the illegitimate dictator. Benazir, in fact, tried to amend these laws once she came into power:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/aami...fir-on-dawn-tribun.482800/page-2#post-9286844

Fact of the matter is that these laws haven't been changed and to be honest I am sure if a referendum is announced to check whenever people like it or not, most of the people will agree to it.

 

[313ghazi]

Pakistan is not the past, its not its initial requirements. The scope has changed, the end users have changed, the people responsible for the implementation of governance have changed and ultimately what is expected of government has also changed.

Stop asking what Jinnah wanted and ask what the awam wants. What does it need?

The Pakistani state makes a mockery of Islam in the way it implements it with mere lip service. It is time for Pakistan to choose a side, Islam or secularism. We cannot have 1 foot in each boat running parallel societies.

Either adopt secularism, its ideals and its political ideologies and processes, or adapt Islam and create a bespoke, fit for purpose system of governance enshrined in Islamic values.

 

[PakSword]

I can respect that wish, but whose version of sharia laws would you want to implement and how would you get all the different versions to agree to a unified code, if all citizens are to be treated fairly? Please keep in mind this is currently a nation that rarely is able to celebrate Eid on the same day.

Don't worry, once it is announced, people of Pakistan will come to a resolution on the little differences...

Agar chaar masjidon main namaz alag hoti hai tou iss se 99% logon ko farq nahi parta

 

[VCheng]

Don't worry, once it is announced, people of Pakistan will come to a resolution on the little differences...

Agar chaar masjidon main namaz alag hoti hai tou iss se 99% logon ko farq nahi parta

That may be true, but a dharna by even the overly zealous 1% has a way of holding everyone hostage to their whims. When can we expect such an announcement? What is the delay?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Fact of the matter is that these laws haven't been changed and to be honest I am sure if a referendum is announced to check whenever people like it or not, most of the people will agree to it.

Fact of the matter is that these laws were enacted by an illegitimate dictator who used Islam as a political tool to legitimize his illegitimate rule.

And considering the state-sponsored religious chauvinistic indoctrination via distortion that has been going on in Pakistan for the last four decades or so, it's quite likely that the majority would endorse such laws. But until and unless a referendum is held, or the elected Parliament endorses these laws after due deliberation, these laws cannot be described as "democratic decisions"

 

[PakSword]

That may be true, but a dharna by even the overly zealous 1% has a way of holding everyone hostage to their whims. When can we expect such an announcement? What is the delay?

You are taking about fiqhi masail.. major principles are same across all sects..

1 - qatal pe gardan alag
2 - chori aur corruption pe haath alag
3 - zana pe koray ya samgsaar
4 - sood (interest) based transactions banned
5 -
6-
7-

And so on.

I don't think any sect will differ in basics.. now haath seedha kaatna hai ya Ulta, yeh baad main teh hojaega.

Aadhay maslay tou corruption aur chori ki saza se hi hal hojaeingay..

Mian Saab tuntay ghoom rahay hotay agar shariah nafiz hoti

it's quite likely that the majority would endorse such laws.

This is important. Everything else is just assumption.

State ne tou kabhi koshish hi nahi ki true Islam nafiz karnay ki.. log Islam ko kostay phirtay hain

 

[VCheng]

You are taking about fiqhi masail.. major principles are same across all sects..

1 - qatal pe gardan alag
2 - chori aur corruption pe haath alag
3 - zana pe koray ya samgsaar
4 - sood (interest) based transactions banned
5 -
6-
7-

And so on.

I don't think any sect will differ in basics.. now haath seedha kaatna hai ya Ulta, yeh baad main teh hojaega.

Aadhay maslay tou corruption aur chori ki saza se hi hal hojaeingay..

Mian Saab tuntay ghoom rahay hotay agar shariah nafiz hoti

When can we expect such an announcement? What is the delay?

State ne tou kabhi koshish hi nahi ki true Islam nafiz karnay ki.

Interesting comment. Why not?

 

[PakSword]

But until and unless a referendum is held, or the elected Parliament endorses these laws after due deliberation, these laws cannot be described as "democratic decisions"

I say until our Parliament is not reversing the laws, it is indirectly endorsing it.

 

[M. Sarmad]

This is important. Everything else is just assumption.

This too is an assumption, my friend

I say until our Parliament is not reversing the laws, it is indirectly endorsing it.

'Indirectly' is not good enough

 

[PakSword]

Interesting comment. Why not?

OR se koi taaluq nahi hai iss ka waisay... So let's go back and ask ourselves, what has OR anything to do with what's happening?

'Indirectly' is not good enough

In my opinion, it is enough.

This too is merely an assumption, my friend

You yourself said that majority might endorse it due to indoctrination and what not (which is not true).. now you are saying it's assumption... Hmmm

 

[M. Sarmad]

In my opinion, it is enough.

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion.
The fact remains that the laws in question are not "democratic decisions".

You yourself said that majority might endorse it due to indoctrination and what not (which is not true).. now you are saying it's assumption... Hmmm

Yes, it's merely an assumption until and unless proven right (or wrong)

 

[PakSword]

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion.
The fact remains that the laws in question are not "democratic decisions".

They are Democratic until not reversed by a Democratic government. Dictator is no more alive... 30 years have passed.. they aren't reversed, means these laws have popularity vote attached...

Yes, it's merely an assumption until and unless proven right (or wrong)

Ok then let's wait for a Democratic government to nullify the law...

When can we expect such an announcement? What is the delay

I don't know.. but nothing is related to the OR

 

[VCheng]

I say until our Parliament is not reversing the laws, it is indirectly endorsing it.

"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing."