This Table will Hurt Much But is needed for "Constructive" Talk

[The Deterrent]

But all convoluted discussions aside, Even Pakistan will think twice, thrice before making that call. Especially using the NASR, because PAkistan has structured (to their credit) the discussion on that missile in such a way that the first action the radar operator who sees that missile climb will execute is announce a possible Nuke strike.

That's scary...even the launch of a battle field rocket such as nasr can be temporarily presumed to be a nuke launch...especially when such nukes have been actively pursued by Pakistan.

May I remind you that Nasr has the signature of an MLRS, so if IA considers all of them to be "possible nuke launches", then good luck to maintaining that command & control.

And experience will tell you that it only takes a few wrong reports in the fog of war to make horrifying conclusions, which lead to terrifying consequences.

Pakistani & Indian nuclear forces have not evolved to that level of efficiency yet. Only the G-5 have the capability to launch retaliatory strikes before impacts, that too because the reaction-time window is large enough.

 

[acid rain]

May I remind you that Nasr has the signature of an MLRS, so if IA considers all of them to be "possible nuke launches", then good luck to maintaining that command & control.


Pakistani & Indian nuclear forces have not evolved to that level of efficiency yet. Only the G-5 have the capability to launch retaliatory strikes before impacts, that too because the reaction-time window is large enough.

We are slowly getting to that stage. .nuke subs with ready to launch slbms, cannisterised BMs.

 

[SQ8]

And as far as India is concerned, no matter what any one might say in the open, no commander or politician will like to be remembered as the guy who wiped out his own country. So war itself is out of the question as far as we are concerned, forget ballistic missiles in conventional roles.

All out war went out of the question in the mid 2000s. The realization that any eventually that leads to a nuclear scenario would be unacceptable. But I would not discount the future of "aggressive posturing". Which includes the rain of bullets and Mortars from time to time along with "cocking the snoot" at the Air Defences. Regardless of the claims and counter claims regarding what happened in the days following 26/11. There was an incident that was essentially an overflight meant for show of force carried out rather aggressively(some 50mi inside) sometime after Dusk(when the F-7Ps and most mirages are rather useless) and a nice AVTR recording of it exists from the F-16s that were involved. The incident was confirmed after a talk with some Horses I know. It was a very subtle diplomatic message as well since the "guilty" party could not fire due to its wish not escalate the situation beyond what it was. Especially since the smiling president then was panicking to the point that he wanted to announce Pakistan being denuclearized.

Although from what I can tell it was a massive risk on the intruders part as well, flying a formation with intercepting aircraft sitting at your six, locked on you with Radar hoping that sense prevails and you don't end up in the sure scenario of meeting the business end of an Air to Air missile.

What also transpired apparently was that any limited war was ruled out. It was either the usual "aggressive" posturing and LoC incidents or all out nuclear holocaust. The establishment has its own hotheads who were prepared to sacrifice it all which meant saner heads had to be very calculating. Sadly, the near solution for Kashmir that was almost reached in 2007 went away for a long while after that.

In either case, whether by intention or by stupidity; Pakistan has created the paradigm that it leaves little room for anything beyond firing, shelling and at most a very justifiable air strike.

We are slowly getting to that stage. .nuke subs with ready to launch slbms, cannisterised BMs.

Slowly means sit back for about another 5-10 years. In either case, Indian long range missiles are aimed at China along with its SLBMs. It is the very reason that the Prithvi and basic Agni were/are more than enough for Pakistan.

 

[acid rain]

All out war went out of the question in the mid 2000s. The realization that any eventually that leads to a nuclear scenario would be unacceptable. But I would not discount the future of "aggressive posturing". Which includes the rain of bullets and Mortars from time to time along with "cocking the snoot" at the Air Defences. Regardless of the claims and counter claims regarding what happened in the days following 26/11. There was an incident that was essentially an overflight meant for show of force carried out rather aggressively(some 50mi inside) sometime after Dusk(when the F-7Ps and most mirages are rather useless) and a nice AVTR recording of it exists from the F-16s that were involved. The incident was confirmed after a talk with some Horses I know. It was a very subtle diplomatic message as well since the "guilty" party could not fire due to its wish not escalate the situation beyond what it was. Especially since the smiling president then was panicking to the point that he wanted to announce Pakistan being denuclearized.

Although from what I can tell it was a massive risk on the intruders part as well, flying a formation with intercepting aircraft sitting at your six, locked on you with Radar hoping that sense prevails and you don't end up in the sure scenario of meeting the business end of an Air to Air missile.

What also transpired apparently was that any limited war was ruled out. It was either the usual "aggressive" posturing and LoC incidents or all out nuclear holocaust. The establishment has its own hotheads who were prepared to sacrifice it all which meant saner heads had to be very calculating. Sadly, the near solution for Kashmir that was almost reached in 2007 went away for a long while after that.

In either case, whether by intention or by stupidity; Pakistan has created the paradigm that it leaves little room for anything beyond firing, shelling and at most a very justifiable air strike.



Slowly means sit back for about another 5-10 years. In either case, Indian long range missiles are aimed at China along with its SLBMs. It is the very reason that the Prithvi and basic Agni were/are more than enough for Pakistan.

That's for sure..5-10 years. It's on track...what I was wondering is..how long does it take to mount up a missile ready to fire?...In the case of canesterised ones - its already ready to fire - one more benefit is its mobile and almost impossible to detect or take out.

 

[SQ8]

That's for sure..5-10 years. It's on track...what I was wondering is..how long does it take to mount up a missile ready to fire?...In the case of canesterised ones - its already ready to fire - one more benefit is its mobile and almost impossible to detect or take out.

You seem to have misunderstood the Concept of canisterization. It does not refer to as much as the Launch time for a Missile but more towards its "sealed" nature; i.e it is ready to fire without any additional input. Take the Topol-M ICBM. It sits inside a canister on top of a vehicle and all that is needed to launch it is for the TEL to take the missile to an upright position and fire it. So it goes through those final checks and arming for launch and goes.
The same goes for a missile like the Shaheen and other Abdali series. Neither of these system require any mounting of that sort as they all now sit on top of combined Erector-Launcher vehicles.

Older missiles employed by India and Pakistan such as the Ghauri and Prithvi before 2000 required two vehicles. One to lift the missile out of its storage onto a launch platform and hookup for fuelling. Which would then take around 10-15 minutes for the missile to be ready to fire. Those are old days now although India still insists on persisting with its Liquid fuelled systems.

 

[Zarvan]

Please discuss

Will Pakistan Do the unthinkable?View attachment 196908 View attachment 196913

What I know Pakistan will do anything to defend itself and if that means using each and every nuke at once against India and its allies we won't mind doing that.

 

[SipahSalar]

Fantasy. China will never take part in Pak-India conflict. Remember their neutral stance in Kargil.

 

[wiseone2]

You seem to have misunderstood the Concept of canisterization. It does not refer to as much as the Launch time for a Missile but more towards its "sealed" nature; i.e it is ready to fire without any additional input. Take the Topol-M ICBM. It sits inside a canister on top of a vehicle and all that is needed to launch it is for the TEL to take the missile to an upright position and fire it. So it goes through those final checks and arming for launch and goes.
The same goes for a missile like the Shaheen and other Abdali series. Neither of these system require any mounting of that sort as they all now sit on top of combined Erector-Launcher vehicles.

Older missiles employed by India and Pakistan such as the Ghauri and Prithvi before 2000 required two vehicles. One to lift the missile out of its storage onto a launch platform and hookup for fuelling. Which would then take around 10-15 minutes for the missile to be ready to fire. Those are old days now although India still insists on persisting with its Liquid fuelled systems.

I am glad it takes 15 minutes to get the missile to fire

 

[Hell Raiser]

A minor correction you might want to make.

In your third point once the 'in case indian missiles launch are detected against Pakistan cities" scenario, It is assumed missiles been launched are nuclear missiles. Which they will be. MAD is already assured. Your fourth point is not needed .

Secondly you might want to replace Pakistan with Islamists. Because any patriot Pakistani who cares for the existence and growth of his country will shy away from using nukes and prefer to live to fight another day. After all one might die for one's country but to sacrifice ones country out of spite towards a neighbouring country is suicidal mentality more identified with Jihadist and Islamists.

On the other hand, 'Pakistanis' will put money where their mouth is and retaliate massively using their conventional army. Give it all. Resist as long as possible and involve international community to mobilise opinion against India and its hegemonic ambitions. etc. etc.

"International community" is bunch of eunuchs, I would rather dies knowing ten Indians have died for one Pakistani than to Bow to the buniya.
Still I wish it never comes to that.

 

[PDF]

A nuclear war will not happen. If it happens, then forget who wins are loses the war, think of the destruction it will have caused...

 

[Sneaker]

What if Indian troops survive tactical nuke strikes? Why is this assumption that tactical nukes will defeat Indian formations?

 

[Jayanta]

In 1965 your rockets failed to reach any of those cities.
It is well known that Indian army strategy has always been to hit the civilians, despite the fact that Pakistanis knows it, they continue to live in those cities.
However, i think its very stupid of Pakistan army for not striking hindu army proactively, and waiting for some apocalypse to be started by modi.



Indians plans always perpetuate along the lines, whether its military rule or democrazy.
Who is the CoAS, how much they control PM of Pakistan.

1.It has been 50 years since 1965...a lot have changed.
2. Facts based on what??
3. Ask Pakistanis of those cities...when they go out...are they scared that Indian Army will kill them...or are they scared LeJ, TTP or a target killer will kill them. How many have died in the hands of Indian army...and how many has been the victim of your cottage factory...Jihad...thekedar-e-islam.
And lastly...what ever you have been smoking is really strong. You are really high.

 

[Rizwan231]

Last was funny

 

[Echo_419]

Please discuss

Will Pakistan Do the unthinkable?View attachment 196908 View attachment 196913

Lol nice one bhai

 

[Capt.Popeye]

While it may seem gleeful, it also shows that due to this proximity, any nuclear fallout is to effect India badly as well depending upon the prevailing winds. Still, this subject is not to be discussed if idiotic jingoism is to be kept in mind. The reality of the subject is far more sobering for both sides to imagine.

So any body touting the "Nuclear Option" right from the 'git-go' is surely peddling something idiotic to the extreme.

But War even Nuclear War has all to do with Space as in acreage. That is undoubtedly and undeniably a factor.