This is not my Quaid’s Pakistan

[SarthakGanguly]

well your opinion cannot change the record and history. He was very much against division of Indian Sub continent, until he was sure that muslims would be denied opportunities of growth in united independent india. He was a liberal and not a fundamentalist.

There is a huge gray area that rests between 'liberal' and a 'fundamentalist', my friend.

 

[Panther 57]

There is a huge gray area that rests between 'liberal' and a 'fundamentalist', my friend.

let me put that grey area. He was a moderate

 

[SarthakGanguly]

@Zarvan... you would have been a fundamentalist irrespective of which religion you were born into. if you were born hindu, you would have been a follower of RamSena or Shiv Sena. or member of KKK if in US.

You just insulted @Zarvan. Shiv Sena is a cry baby in front of him. KKK - now that's another matter

 

[Zarvan]

There is a huge gray area that rests between 'liberal' and a 'fundamentalist', my friend.

Mr no that is not the case if you listen to speeches off Jinnah after that 11th august speeches he is talking about Islam and implementing its law and principals and Jinnah was brave men unlike hypocrites and coward Gandhi and Nehru

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Mr no that is not the case if you listen to speeches off Jinnah after that 11th august speeches he is talking about Islam and implementing its law and principals and Jinnah was brave men unlike hypocrites and coward Gandhi and Nehru

Nehru was a Pandit - no doubt he was a coward

 

[scorpionx]

@Panther 57

A very minor correction in post #120. Jinnah,started parting himself from AICC in 1920's when it involved itself in Khilafat movement,in which as an educated,progressive muslim,Mr.Jinnah found no justification at all.

 

[jaibi]

Not true. Pakistan was for the Muslims of India like Israel was for Jews of the world, neither one was intended to be a state for theocracy.

Regarding the division: Punjabi assembly passed a notion of opposing the partition of Punjab, the Sikh leaders stalled this attempt. Bengalis wanted a separation as the areas that became Bangladesh were marginalised. Indian politicians deliberately stumped local aspirations, both Congress and the ML for their own agendas.

Jinnah believed that only Islam will be sufficient to unite people of Pakistan, that idea of Pakistani nationalism was based on religion. Are you sure calling it ethno is appropriate, you forget we divided the Bengali, Punjabi and Sindhi population based on religion.

 

[Thorough Pro]

we don't need any certificates from self proclaimed champions of human rights engaged in multiple wars against humanity all over the globe.

Go on, please give us a few examples of your anti-racism activities.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Jinnah has become such a symbol of wisdom in the Pakistani society that people visualize Pakistan with his reference. His vision, his agenda, his dream and his ideals, all.remained unaccomplished because he died soon after the independence. It is commonly believed that had he lived some more years, history of Pakistan would have been different. There are few nations who rely so heavily on one individual. No doubt, Jinnah was a great leader of his people. He was a man of integrity and honesty, but to make him an idol and not allow anybody to emerge out of his shadow is pathetic. Every generation has its own dreams and vision which it wants to accomplish without interference. Not imitation but freedom is required to build a new world. Therefore, attempt should not be made to repeat but to make a new history. People should be liberated from the shadow and allow them to flourish in a free atmosphere. Great leaders should be respected but not worshiped.


The universal opposition of virtually every significant religious group in Undivided India, indeed the entire Muslim religious establishment to Jinnah`s Pakistan movement and the Muslim League cannot be reconciled with any idea of religious origins of Pakistan. This is just one of many paradoxes that anyone who thinks of that the true reason for the creation of Pakistan was to establish a religious 'Islamic state', must unravel.

Our people are ignorant about these facts because there has been a systematic campaign of disinformation over more than four decades. It reached its peak under General Zia. A false image of "Islamist Jinnah" was promoted . In a recent work, entitled 'The Murder of History in Pakistan'. the distinguished historian, K.K. Aziz has shown how thoroughly distorted is the presentation of our own past through the re-writing of history is in Pakistan. The people of Pakistan are entitled to know the truth. The motives of the state authorities in instigating and promoting this project of systematic disinformation need to be examined and understood.

 

[Solomon2]

we don't need any certificates from self proclaimed champions of human rights engaged in multiple wars against humanity all over the globe.

As if merely engaging in war makes one unfit to judge human rights violations? Does that mean when Indian troops engage Maoist and Pakistani forces any crimes they commit get ignored?

 

[M. Sarmad]

As if merely engaging in war makes one unfit to judge human rights violations? Does that mean when Indian troops engage Maoist and Pakistani forces any crimes they commit get ignored?

“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world : My own Government, I can not be Silent.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[FaujHistorian]

It is unfortunate that after more than 65 years of independence it is still not clear what Quaid's Pakistan is.

Same thing can be said about Gandhi Ji as well.

No wonder that poor old man was assassinated by Hindutvadis.

Mr no that is not the case if you listen to speeches off Jinnah after that 11th august speeches he is talking about Islam and implementing its law and principals and Jinnah was brave men unlike hypocrites and coward Gandhi and Nehru

You must be talking about implementation of Islam as per Mullah mardoodi oopps mawdoodi.

Mardoodi supporters ignore the fact

that if Jinnah wanted to turn paksitan into Islamist Jahannum aka Emirates, then his biggest supporters would be the likes mardoodi.

But that was never true


Mullahs and I say 90% Mullahs were against Jinnah and against Pakistan.


So now you come here and spread the lies printed in 5th grade Mutala-e-Pakitan books.

What a shame.

Congress was always against electorate based on religion, so his congress years can't decide his secular credentials during his Muslim League years. How his 14 points prove him as a secular man?

Bhai sahib

Why are you cut pasting 5th grade Indian history school books here.

Do you even know that Congressis came up with the idea that Muslim Majority Provinces should be cut and chopped from the Hindu majority provinces.

Just because you didn't read it in the 5th grade school, doesn't mean that Congress was always against religion based political shit.

Please go beyond the 5th grade bhai. go beyond it. There is lot of knowledge to be had when you graduate from 5th grade.

A lot of it.

Thank you.

 

[Zarvan]

Same thing can be said about Gandhi Ji as well.

No wonder that poor old man was assassinated by Hindutvadis.




You must be talking about implementation of Islam as per Mullah mardoodi oopps mawdoodi.

Mardoodi supporters ignore the fact

that if Jinnah wanted to turn paksitan into Islamist Jahannum aka Emirates, then his biggest supporters would be the likes mardoodi.

But that was never true


Mullahs and I say 90% Mullahs were against Jinnah and against Pakistan.


So now you come here and spread the lies printed in 5th grade Mutala-e-Pakitan books.

What a shame.



Bhai sahib

Why are you cut pasting 5th grade Indian history school books here.

Do you even know that Congressis came up with the idea that Muslim Majority Provinces should be cut and chopped from the Hindu majority provinces.

Just because you didn't read it in the 5th grade school, doesn't mean that Congress was always against religion based political shit.

Please go beyond the 5th grade bhai. go beyond it. There is lot of knowledge to be had when you graduate from 5th grade.

A lot of it.

Thank you.

Majority Mullahs were in favor of Pakistan only half of deoband were against it other wise people like Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Zafar Ahmed Usmani and Mufti Muhammad Shafi and Pir Mehr Ali Shah several more supported Jinah and if you read speeches of Jinah after 11th August and before 11th August you will know what he really wanted

 

[ShahidT]

Give the man fair due when he is right. You may disagree with Zarvan on many things but don't just argue for the sake of it when he's right about this. What the mullahs originally thought about partition and what they came around to shouldn't really matter. Who are they? Who cares? The main thing is, what our two leaders, Quaid and Allama Iqbal wanted. Just requires the briefest of research on their lives, speeches and works, and you'd realize it was a system akin to Khilafat e Rashida during the time of Hazrat Umar RA, which best suits our culture, history, geography and present times. No well meaning muslim can ever say he does not want implementation of Sharia (i.e. supremacy of Allah and to be governed completely by holy Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh, in all matters related to the state and society).

 

[INDIC]

Same thing can be said about Gandhi Ji as well.

No wonder that poor old man was assassinated by Hindutvadis.




You must be talking about implementation of Islam as per Mullah mardoodi oopps mawdoodi.

Mardoodi supporters ignore the fact

that if Jinnah wanted to turn paksitan into Islamist Jahannum aka Emirates, then his biggest supporters would be the likes mardoodi.

But that was never true


Mullahs and I say 90% Mullahs were against Jinnah and against Pakistan.


So now you come here and spread the lies printed in 5th grade Mutala-e-Pakitan books.

What a shame.



Bhai sahib

Why are you cut pasting 5th grade Indian history school books here.

Do you even know that Congressis came up with the idea that Muslim Majority Provinces should be cut and chopped from the Hindu majority provinces.

Just because you didn't read it in the 5th grade school, doesn't mean that Congress was always against religion based political shit.

Please go beyond the 5th grade bhai. go beyond it. There is lot of knowledge to be had when you graduate from 5th grade.

A lot of it.

Thank you.

Jinnah was in Congress at the time of Gandhi, I never heard any account of Gandhi being anti-Muslim.

BTW Gandhi was assassinated in 1948 and Sardar Patel died in 1950 but still we Indians aren't confused about their vision for India because the we aren't craving for history revisionism.