This is not my Quaid’s Pakistan

[M. Sarmad]

Why did he quit congress, just at the time when Ghandi started the mass based grassroots movement?

Gandhi and Jinnah were each other’s antithesis in beliefs and ways of life and furnished an interesting study in contrast. There was hardly anything in common between them which could hold them together on one political platform for any length of time. Gandhi had been active in politics since his return from South Africa in 1915 and had consistently waged battles against the British Government on the question of political and constitutional future of India.


It was a clash of two strong personalities, two distinct value systems and two irreconcilable ideologies and it were these differences what were ‘to dictate the course of the pen that wrote the history of India
[G. Allana, Quaid-i-Azam Jinnah: The Story of a Nation, Lahore, 1967, p. 106.]

About Gandhi :

Lord Wavell at the end of one meeting with him complained that ‘he spoke to me for half an hour, and I am still not sure what he meant to tell me. Every sentence he spoke could be interpreted in at least two different ways. I would be happier were I convinced that he knew what he was saying himself, but I cannot even be sure of that [Quoted in Leonard Mosley, The Last Days of the British Raj, London, 1961, p. 19.]

He was quite capable of interpreting and reinterpreting his own statements and was ‘perfectly prepared to go back at any time on anything he had said earlier’. He could assume that role of a dictator in the Congress Party when it suited him while on other occasions when he believed that Hindu interests could be better served by his silence he would withdraw and innocently plead that he was not even an ordinary member of that Party.
[Wavell, The Viceroy’s Journal, Karachi, 1974, p. 146.]

About Jinnah :
Jinnah, on the other hand was a down right political realist. True to his legal profession he would prepare his brief only after he was sure of his facts. There was a great deal of political idealism in him which was to grow with years but it was always based on the stark realities of the situation. He honoured his pledged word and as Lord Pethick Lawrence said, ‘a man of very firm resolution, a man who when made a promise always kept it and if he felt any body else with whom he was negotiating failed to keep his promise he reacted very strongly
[Jamil ud Din Ahmad, ed., Quaid-i-Azam As Seen by his Contemporaries (Lahore, 1966), p. 227]

 

[Informant]

Jinnah personally may have been secular the same iqbal

But they never intended pakistan to be so

If they wanted a secular Republic theyn they had india, what's the point of partition

the secular liberals need to accept and understand one thing you are a tiny tiny insignificant minority that represents the Pakistani people as much as the TTP does


personally both theTTP and liberals should be put in a blender and ground into nothing they are both scum and unrepresentative of the people

First of all what is your definition of Secular? Your interpretation, not anyone else's. I will then answer your secular rant. You sure mean to say that you wouldve juiced Quaid? Secular means not seeing anyone as unequal, every one has the same rights. Seperation of Church and State. You guys praise Turkey, they are the definition of a Muslim nation based on Secularism. Look at their power in the world, look at their advancement in all fields, look at their peace, look at their crime stats. And you have the nerve to ridicule a standpoint found in all the nations of the world that are a success. Be they Muslim or Christan or any other creed.

You can have your view but push it on the Pakistani people and the same thing that happened to salman taseer will happen to you

and the fact that a extremist killed taseer isn't important, its the fact that most Pakistanis simply thought "good" when it happened

What was Taseer saying? That blashpemy law is wrong, which it is, and why he said so was the complete misuse. Not one case has been right using that law. All wrong falsified allegations. Yeah that is why he was against it. His method of delivery is what got him killed not his position.

Haha your veiled empty threats of death doesnt deter folks like me, I can be your worst nightmare even Allah will leave you to my mercy. Dont push where you cant handle the repercussions. This is a threat where i can actually back up my statements.

Yeah Pakistanis thought good, no wonder you retards are the gutter of humanity. Literally everything wrong is in Pakistan. Terrorist exporters, yeah people feel good about bin laden, people feel good about TTP.

I can name call and threaten aswell

 

[hussain0216]

Clarify who you are first are you some pagan monkey worshipping indian or what

secular in muslim world isn't simply separation of church and state, secularism in muslim world has always manifested itself into the oppressesion and suppression of Muslim's and islam



taseers crime was that he was a openly liberal
Secular

thats the point

these type of people don't represent pakistanis

Its all good them gobbing off on a forum but in real life they would get lynched

this is why most don't give two hoots that taseer got whacked and if you look that qadri guy has a lot of support

don't be surprised if he gets pardoned

pakistanis just don't care for theTTP or liberal seculars

 

[genmirajborgza786]

it doesn't matter anymore what the Quaid wanted Pakistan to be, his role was to create Pakistan which he did & we are grateful to him for that, remember his job was to create Pakistan, but running it is our prerogative. For example Mao tse tung created China, but it was Deng Xiaoping who carved out the path & ideology for a rich & powerful China while Mao's was a communist China, Deng Xiaoping's China is a progressive combination of socialist & capitalist system entrenched in compatibility with the Chinese society.
Allah has given you a land expanding from the mountains of Kashmir to the gates of the straits of hurmuz spread over a land mass of 338,000 sq mi or 875,000 sq km ! with a 1000 km coastline, what you have is unique in its size ,strengths, locations, resources etc' s , not every south Asian country is privileged to have this type of a blessing, every other neighbor's of India envy's & admires your sheer presence @ the same time, value it ! what have you to complain ? you are almost 200,000 sq km larger then even Myanmar ! don't be an ungrateful populace by indulging in senseless debates, you have a country make the very best out of it

& remember Quaid's job was to create a country how he did that, was his prerogative now you have a country & what you make of it is your prerogative, so be wise & make the very best out of it you have a Deng Xiao ping, Abraham Lincoln, Erdogan, Mahatir in you bring it out & serve your land
yeh watan tumhara hai.....

Yeh Vatan Tumhara Hay
Tum Ho Pasban Iss Kay
Yeh Chaman Tumhara Hay
Tum Ho Naghma Khwan Iss Kay
Yeh Vatan Tumhara Hay
Tum Ho Pasban Iss Kay

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Azlan,I was reading your arguments on this topic in some other thread which were simply amazing. If Islam does not treat everybody equal,how can it be liberal/progressive first of all.Are we not stuck into basics in the beginning? Now if an Islamic state needs to be progressive it must not adhere to it's primary principles. The point I am asking is is Pakistan ready to reinterpret the holy text or in Iqbal's words "reconstruct the Islamic thoughts"? If yes,then how? This seems to be a mountainous task for a society which is educated,liberal in thoughts,inclined to moderate version of Islam but severely challenged by the relentless skirmish by religious extremism entangled in national politics.

good post , very well said

 

[Sugarcane]

If they wanted a secular Republic theyn they had india, what's the point of partition

Point of partition was that congress disagreed to accept demands of Muslims - at-least this much you should know.

 

[shuntmaster]

TTP calls Jinnah Kaafir-e-Azam


They call him Kaafir e azam from day 1. They hold Pakistani army responsible for shaheedization of all mosques in Pakistan. No peace in Pakistan until Sharia is implemented in letter and spirit.
Kafir-e-azam was coined by one of the twin pillars of Jihadi Islamism of the last century, Maulana ala al Mawdudi (the other being Syed Qutb). This title has also been adopted by Jama'at-Ulema-e-Islam whose current chief, Fazl-ur-Rehman, refuses to sport a picture of Jinnah in his office in the National Assembly (he is also the Kashmir Committee chief of the Government of Pakistan) and he openly refuses to accept Jinnah as the Father of the Nation. Maulana Sandwich, who also belongs to Jama'at-Ulema-e-Islam (but to his own faction), subscribes to this view. There is no surprise that the Taliban sport the same opinion as after all their mentors have held the view since before Independence.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

TTP calls Jinnah Kaafir-e-Azam


Maulana Sandwich, who also belongs to Jama'at-Ulema-e-Islam (but to his own faction), subscribes to this view. There is no surprise that the Taliban sport the same opinion as after all their mentors have held the view since before Independence.

wait a minute' did you just say Maulana "sandwich" ?

 

[shuntmaster]

wait a minute' did you just say Maulana "sandwich" ?

Mullah Sandwich
Mullah Sandwich is the nickname for Maulana Sami-ul Haq, a pakistani politician and religious figure. Mullah Sandwich is a leader of a faction of JUI, an extremist Pakistani political party, and is known for his fiery speeches. His faction is known as the JUI (S) in order to distinguish it from JUI (F) which is led by Mullah Diesel. The origin of his nickname has to do with the fact that he was once caught naked in a compromising Sandwich position, in the company of a younger youth and another male.

Sami ul Haq
Maulana Sami ul Haq (Urdu: مولانا سمیع الحق‎, Samī‘u’l-Ḥaq; born December 18, 1937) is a Pakistani religious scholar and a politician. He is regarded as the "Father of the Taliban" and has close ties to Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar. Sami ul Haq is currently the chancellor of Darul Uloom Haqqania, a Deobandi Islamic seminary which is the alma mater of many prominent Taliban members. Haq serves as chairman of the Difa-e-Pakistan Council and is the leader of his own faction of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam political party, known as JUI-S.Sami ul-Haq is also a founding member of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal the creator of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, a terrorist organization.

 

[Bratva]

He was neither secular nor communal. He play both of those roles. Another fallacy - "wanted a homeland for his people" - who were these people?
"Devoted his life to the nation" - by being more British than the British, following a completely unIslamic lifestyle(I will NOT elaborate)and so on. He was shrewd no doubt - but not selfless.

He was a religious as a normal muslim is. After he returned to India, in 32-33, he left his lavish life style and began to follow Islam more closely, Those who were near to him has written down these things in their books. Moulana Shabbir Usmani, Several prominent Peer's. Peer maher Ali Shah, Jamat Ali Shah.


The problem with indians is they tend to ignore the narratives of people close to Jinnah and instead to rely on unsubstantiated claims regarding Jinnah