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the word "india" refers to present day pakistan

@vishwambhar, why not all the SAARC countries band together in the near-future under the SAPF name ?? I mean all SAARC countries being separate republics but each being governed by the same Progressive political system.



Hah hah.

This will be like dream coming true.... but main problem is lack of trust between each other.... especially Pakistan will never trust us.... I always wanted to see south Asia to be like one union but defense related matters to be with each other.... apart from this south Asian mentality is very different than that like Europe... even if we trust each other's and forms concept like Europe where all south Asian can go to any south Asian country freely then extremist, opportunistic political elements will make sure how it turns into disaster....sad reality of this part of the world
 
That was a time when it was only and only Bharat Varsh..... All those parts were actually parts of world's most ancient country or civilization Bharat Varsh.... Greeks, Persians used to call it HIND..... When Brit's decided to name it India from Indus river that time also Pakistan or even name Pakistan didn't exist as it was a concept developed in 1930s.... Bharat Varsh was spread over the span of Afghanistan in west till Sayam ( Thailand) in East in ancient times...
So when you are going to claim it back?
 
No Brits first found spices in India.... later they started farming spices in java and Sumatra in Indonesia..... source of spices was always India with Indians using those 1000s of years prior before the arrival of European....

Yup after I search online it found that India have produced spices since long time ago, but it is false to say that spices farming in Indonesia are started by British. First British doesnt colonize Indonesia. Second Indonesia is already well known as spices producer since old time before western world ever found our nations as Indonesia have already made trade relation with ancient India, Arab, and Chinese and spices are most probably the main Indonesian commodity at that time. Our trade relation with Middle East is even started during Pharoh in Egypt where their mummy use our commodities from barus region in North Sumatra. Their parfum raw material is also likely coming from Indonesia islands.

Third, we are called East Indies in the old time by Dutch is the hint that our nation is among the biggest spices producer in the world or at least in Asia at that time that rival India. Dutch present in Indonesia was also happening in stages, they set up a trade relation first and didnt have anything to do with farming and others. They just trade our commodities that are farmed and produce by Indonesian farmer. Later they invade us and colonized which was also happening in stages, Aceh province for instant can only be colonized after 1900.

This was stated by Indonesian historian :


The ancient Indonesian kingdom of Sriwijaya in the southwestern part of Sumatra played a significant role in the history of the spice trail. The kingdom, which possibly originated in Palembang, South Sumatra, rose to power in the seventh century and retained control over the trade of spices — which had grown in abundance in the region — for around 500 years thanks to its strong navy.

Bambang Budi Utomo, a researcher at the National Archaeological Research and Development Center, said for around five centuries, Sriwijaya was the world’s trade hub, where middlemen from Arab and China came to get commodities that had been shipped from the Eastern island of Maluku.

Maluku Island was a home to lucrative spices such as clove, nutmeg and mace. Back then, these and middlemen carefully hid the map of the island from Europeans.

Indonesia’s fertile soil enabled local farmers to maintain the high quality of their spice produce, leaving overseas consumers asking for more.

Pepper, for instance, was also a popular commodity in the spice trade at that time.

“Although pepper originated in India before it was cultivated on Indonesian soil, the pepper grown [here] was somehow hotter than those grown in India. That was why consumers from the Middle East, like Persia [now Iran], and even India itself preferred Indonesian pepper at that time,” Bambang explained.

Camphor was another highlight product from the archipelago. China and Thailand also produced the commodity at that time, but still, traders preferred Indonesian camphor originating in the Barus area of North Sumatra, due to its higher quality.

From all the foreign spice consumers at that time, Indonesian spices attracted the Europeans most as the country is also a home to religious tradition and scriptures.

“Thanks to the middlemen, the ancient spice trade before Sriwijaya had reached Italy before [the birth of] Christ. In around year 75 to 79 AD, the Rome bishop received a gift of 150 pounds of cloves from the Emperor Constantine. In the Old Testament of the Bible, there is a story of Queen Sheba who presents spices as a gift to Solomon,” Bambang said.

He said the Sriwijaya kingdom was able to sustain its hold on the spice trade for hundreds of years as the kingdom had a strong maritime military strategy and technology.

“Sriwijaya made use of the suku laut [ocean tribe] at that time to guard the spice trade in the area. Although their main field of operation was the sea, they were also great warriors,” he said.

This strong military base helped the kingdom guard its maritime sovereignty.

Aside from military strategy, Sriwijaya’s shipping technology also played a vital role in making it a successful maritime hub. They had phinisi wooden boat that helped them navigate the ocean thanks to its design.

Separately, historian JJ Rizal, who runs a publishing company called Komunitas Bambu specializing in history books, said that part of the secret of the kingdom’s survival was its rulers’ strategy in turning financial accumulation into intellectual capital through a sound educational system.

“The port city of Barus gave birth to intellectuals in the seventh century, including Hamzah Fansuri,” he told the Post, referring to the well-known Islamic writer.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/adv/...e-trade-were-not-a-global-leader-anymore.html
 
Yup after I search online it found that India have produced spices since long time ago, but it is false to say that spices farming in Indonesia are started by British. First British doesnt colonize Indonesia. Second Indonesia is already well known as spices producer since old time before western world ever found our nations as Indonesia have already made trade relation with ancient India, Arab, and Chinese and spices are most probably the main Indonesian commodity at that time. Our trade relation with Middle East is even started during Pharoh in Egypt where their mummy use our commodities from barus region in North Sumatra. Their parfum raw material is also likely coming from Indonesia islands.

Third, we are called East Indies in the old time by Dutch is the hint that our nation is among the biggest spices producer in the world or at least in Asia at that time that rival India. Dutch present in Indonesia was also happening in stages, they set up a trade relation first and didnt have anything to do with farming and others. They just trade our commodities that are farmed and produce by Indonesian farmer. Later they invade us and colonized which was also happening in stages, Aceh province for instant can only be colonized after 1900.

This was stated by Indonesian historian :


The ancient Indonesian kingdom of Sriwijaya in the southwestern part of Sumatra played a significant role in the history of the spice trail. The kingdom, which possibly originated in Palembang, South Sumatra, rose to power in the seventh century and retained control over the trade of spices — which had grown in abundance in the region — for around 500 years thanks to its strong navy.

Bambang Budi Utomo, a researcher at the National Archaeological Research and Development Center, said for around five centuries, Sriwijaya was the world’s trade hub, where middlemen from Arab and China came to get commodities that had been shipped from the Eastern island of Maluku.

Maluku Island was a home to lucrative spices such as clove, nutmeg and mace. Back then, these and middlemen carefully hid the map of the island from Europeans.

Indonesia’s fertile soil enabled local farmers to maintain the high quality of their spice produce, leaving overseas consumers asking for more.

Pepper, for instance, was also a popular commodity in the spice trade at that time.

“Although pepper originated in India before it was cultivated on Indonesian soil, the pepper grown [here] was somehow hotter than those grown in India. That was why consumers from the Middle East, like Persia [now Iran], and even India itself preferred Indonesian pepper at that time,” Bambang explained.

Camphor was another highlight product from the archipelago. China and Thailand also produced the commodity at that time, but still, traders preferred Indonesian camphor originating in the Barus area of North Sumatra, due to its higher quality.

From all the foreign spice consumers at that time, Indonesian spices attracted the Europeans most as the country is also a home to religious tradition and scriptures.

“Thanks to the middlemen, the ancient spice trade before Sriwijaya had reached Italy before [the birth of] Christ. In around year 75 to 79 AD, the Rome bishop received a gift of 150 pounds of cloves from the Emperor Constantine. In the Old Testament of the Bible, there is a story of Queen Sheba who presents spices as a gift to Solomon,” Bambang said.

He said the Sriwijaya kingdom was able to sustain its hold on the spice trade for hundreds of years as the kingdom had a strong maritime military strategy and technology.

“Sriwijaya made use of the suku laut [ocean tribe] at that time to guard the spice trade in the area. Although their main field of operation was the sea, they were also great warriors,” he said.

This strong military base helped the kingdom guard its maritime sovereignty.

Aside from military strategy, Sriwijaya’s shipping technology also played a vital role in making it a successful maritime hub. They had phinisi wooden boat that helped them navigate the ocean thanks to its design.

Separately, historian JJ Rizal, who runs a publishing company called Komunitas Bambu specializing in history books, said that part of the secret of the kingdom’s survival was its rulers’ strategy in turning financial accumulation into intellectual capital through a sound educational system.

“The port city of Barus gave birth to intellectuals in the seventh century, including Hamzah Fansuri,” he told the Post, referring to the well-known Islamic writer.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/adv/...e-trade-were-not-a-global-leader-anymore.html

Thanks for sharing this knowledge friend.... it was a nice read
 
Thanks for sharing this knowledge friend.... it was a nice read

My pleasure bro, oya I forgot to answer your previous question in Indonesia defense forum. You asked what is Indonesia preference in term of the source of acquiring Brahmos. I think both India and Russia are our close friend so either one can supply it, but with CATSAA problem imposed by USA, IMO we prefer to get the missile from India to avoid US sanction.
 
This will be like dream coming true.... but main problem is lack of trust between each other.... especially Pakistan will never trust us.... I always wanted to see south Asia to be like one union but defense related matters to be with each other.... apart from this south Asian mentality is very different than that like Europe... even if we trust each other's and forms concept like Europe where all south Asian can go to any south Asian country freely then extremist, opportunistic political elements will make sure how it turns into disaster....sad reality of this part of the world

The only dream that has always come true and once again will come true is masters always were from Western and Central Asia.

Kushans, Gujjaras, Huns, Turko Afghans, Persians have always conquered and taken over.

When week and feeble can't stand the strength of the above they give them titles like Rajputs, another group from central Asia.

The day Pakistan looks eastward without realising that half the country looks westward will be the day there will be small pieces of Pakistan and that's a fact.

Wish no peace with Indians or otherSouth Asians, Muslim or not makes no difference, purely racial same as our hate for the Arab.
 
Yes, the same Progressive political system but the countries remaining independent. And the political system should be Direct Democracy Socialism.

You should open a thread for what is Progressive political system. Only if you get unanimity on what Progressive political system means can you go ahead with proposing that we have a progressive political system. What is progressive to you might be regressive to me.
 
My pleasure bro, oya I forgot to answer your previous question in Indonesia defense forum. You asked what is Indonesia preference in term of the source of acquiring Brahmos. I think both India and Russia are our close friend so either one can supply it, but with CATSAA problem imposed by USA, IMO we prefer to get the missile from India to avoid US sanction.

That will be really great to see if defence cooperation between India and Indonesia starts....
 
The only dream that has always come true and once again will come true is masters always were from Western and Central Asia.

Kushans, Gujjaras, Huns, Turko Afghans, Persians have always conquered and taken over.

When week and feeble can't stand the strength of the above they give them titles like Rajputs, another group from central Asia.

The day Pakistan looks eastward without realising that half the country looks westward will be the day there will be small pieces of Pakistan and that's a fact.

Wish no peace with Indians or otherSouth Asians, Muslim or not makes no difference, purely racial same as our hate for the Arab.

As a Punjabi Rajput myself, I 100% concur with your statements. We are Iranic nomadic stock with intermingling of IVC, Greeks, and other local groups like Pukhtoons, Kashmiris, etc.

You would be surprised at the amount of light eye color, light hair color, and Asiatic/Eurasian phenotypes prevalent among us.
 
The only dream that has always come true and once again will come true is masters always were from Western and Central Asia.

Kushans, Gujjaras, Huns, Turko Afghans, Persians have always conquered and taken over.

When week and feeble can't stand the strength of the above they give them titles like Rajputs, another group from central Asia.

The day Pakistan looks eastward without realising that half the country looks westward will be the day there will be small pieces of Pakistan and that's a fact.

Wish no peace with Indians or otherSouth Asians, Muslim or not makes no difference, purely racial same as our hate for the Arab.

it's okay my South Asian neighbour... relax and have a glass of water...
 
Those who changed their religion, who even changed their ancestors and in race of becoming B grade Arabs are saying this.

We have adopted better religion/culture. Don't stay stuck in the past. Would you go back to hunter gatherer lifestyle?

Most of us have not changed our ancestors.

They claim our ancestors like Porus. These tropical shorties have massive inferiority complex.
 

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