the word "india" refers to present day pakistan

[War Historian]

That is not true. We can immediately see that through Ghulam Ali, Zeba Bakhtiar, Salma Agha, Fawad khan, Humaima Malik, Javed Sheikh, Ali Zafar, Mawra Hocaine, Mahira Khan, Atif Aslam, Adnan Sami, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Raahat Fateh Ali Khan easily working in Indian films. And Shilpa Shukla, Nandita Das and Naseeruddin Shah easily working in Pakistani films.

I have watched Pakistani comedy stage shows and I could identify with them. Pakistani cinemas have played Hindi films like Raid because they could identify with these films.

Watch this interview of the Indian actress, Swara Bhaskar, on her trip to Pakistan. The interview is on the Pakistani show Mazaat Raat.

As for the political entities called India and Pakistan, they can continue with those names but what I want is that these two should have Progressive poltical systems, which would be to their benefit. The main issue between the two countries is Kashmir and this issue needs a political solution. Here's my contribution towards that :

1. Let India and Pakistan both become governed by the same Progressive / Socialist Direct Democracy system, while remaining two independent countries. This will be like how pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were, both governed by Ba'ath ideology while remaining two independent republics.

2. Let the India-administered Kashmir remain with India and Pakistan-administered Kashmir remain with Pakistan.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border which is passable by passport for the reasons of trade, tourism and family visits.
​

This will remove most of the militant ideology surrounding the Kashmir issue. The only remaining militantism will be of the Regressive religious sort and that can be sorted out by both countries.

And this will also have the great effect of bringing both countries to a Progressive political system and governance.

Sir, if we have to live with indians then why we had sacrifice a million people and three major wars and so many border clashes.because we are different in civilization. And both states are always on opposite sides even in a minor ideas of common life. Its called clash of civilization. I respect your sentiments.but thats not applicable in case of India and Pakistan because they are not iraq and syria.latter one has same civilization they have not fought a war they think in same manners they fought against israel united. India always looking for opportunity to harm Pakistan. 1971 was a prove of indian expansionist mind set. So we can not follow your lines. Thanks

 

[jamahir]

because they are not iraq and syria.latter one has same civilization they have not fought a war

Just to be sure, Iraq and Syria were on opposing sides in the 1990-1991 Gulf War.

I am not sure how true this is but there is this text in the Wikipedia page for that war :

After stops in Helsinki and Moscow to smooth out Iraqi demands for a Middle-Eastern peace conference with the Soviet Union, Baker traveled to Syria to discuss its role in the crisis with its President Hafez Assad. Assad had a deep personal enmity towards Saddam, which was defined by the fact that "Saddam had been trying to kill him [Assad] for years." Harboring this animosity and being impressed with Baker's diplomatic initiative to visit Damascus (relations had been severed since the 1983 bombing of US Marine barracks in Beirut), Assad agreed to pledge up to 100,000 Syrian troops to the coalition effort.

Surely, the ties between India and Pakistan are not that fragile.

Sir, if we have to live with indians then why we had sacrifice a million people and three major wars and so many border clashes.

That can be changed if India and Pakistan really decide to sit to discuss peace. What's the point of always living in the past ??

Let's take a note from Nelson Mandela who after coming out of jail, set about creating the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. If South Africa can do it, why not India and Pakistan ??

 

[k s ahmed]

kashmir issue should be solved on the terms set out in 1940-47 : muslim majority would go to pakistan and rest will go to india.. you cant just give part of kashmir to india like cake. already dehli, hyderabad, junagarh and gordaspur are wrongly in india which has fucked up the region.

the governments should be progressive but independent and may or may not be copy cats.

but main issue is kashmire a you said. and unless its solved properly, india's akhand baharat will keep enticing them to do sabzical strikes on pakistan , which will result in nothing for the region.
india has this craze of being asian super power and they saw the opportunity to rule the region when british left but partition didnt help them. Since then till now, its a mess and wil stay so. Although, at people level, they would like to cross the border and mingle since there is much to exchange .
unless india removes the thinking of akhand baharat, things wont move an inch.

That is not true. We can immediately see that through Ghulam Ali, Zeba Bakhtiar, Salma Agha, Fawad khan, Humaima Malik, Javed Sheikh, Ali Zafar, Mawra Hocaine, Mahira Khan, Atif Aslam, Adnan Sami, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Raahat Fateh Ali Khan easily working in Indian films. And Shilpa Shukla, Nandita Das and Naseeruddin Shah easily working in Pakistani films.

I have watched Pakistani comedy stage shows and I could identify with them. Pakistani cinemas have played Hindi films like Raid because they could identify with these films.

Watch this interview of the Indian actress, Swara Bhaskar, on her trip to Pakistan. The interview is on the Pakistani show Mazaat Raat.

As for the political entities called India and Pakistan, they can continue with those names but what I want is that these two should have Progressive poltical systems, which would be to their benefit. The main issue between the two countries is Kashmir and this issue needs a political solution. Here's my contribution towards that :

1. Let India and Pakistan both become governed by the same Progressive / Socialist Direct Democracy system, while remaining two independent countries. This will be like how pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were, both governed by Ba'ath ideology while remaining two independent republics.

2. Let the India-administered Kashmir remain with India and Pakistan-administered Kashmir remain with Pakistan.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border which is passable by passport for the reasons of trade, tourism and family visits.
​

This will remove most of the militant ideology surrounding the Kashmir issue. The only remaining militantism will be of the Regressive religious sort and that can be sorted out by both countries.

And this will also have the great effect of bringing both countries to a Progressive political system and governance.

@Talwar e Pakistan ^^^

 

[halupridol]

Why does this thread sound like a remix of the superhit n timeless topic of pdf---
Pakistan ka matlab kya?

Kabhi Not India,,kabhi Like India,,aur ab real India.

 

[jamahir]

kashmir issue should be solved on the terms set out in 1940-47 : muslim majority would go to pakistan and rest will go to india.. you cant just give part of kashmir to india like cake. already dehli, hyderabad, junagarh and gordaspur are wrongly in india which has fucked up the region.

Going that way will not resolve Kashmir or anything for the matter.

the governments should be progressive but independent and may or may not be copy cats.

Yes, the same Progressive political system but the countries remaining independent. And the political system should be Direct Democracy Socialism.

india has this craze of being asian super power and they saw the opportunity to rule the region when british left but partition didnt help them.

The Indian establishment's tendency to act as a regional power is because of two reason : Pakistan and China. Once India becomes governed by a Progressive political system, that tendency will automatically be resolved.

Although, at people level, they would like to cross the border and mingle since there is much to exchange .

Agreed.

unless india removes the thinking of akhand baharat, things wont move an inch.

Agreed.

---
@k s ahmed, in the beginning of my post I had missed out on typing "not".

 

[k s ahmed]

why not it will resolve ? that rule was the base of partition ..
either you go that rule or either you let them live alone happily
you cant occupy that place

Going that way will not resolve Kashmir or anything for the matter.



Yes, the same Progressive political system but the countries remaining independent. And the political system should be Direct Democracy Socialism.



The Indian establishment's tendency to act as a regional power is because of two reason : Pakistan and China. Once India becomes governed by a Progressive political system, that tendency will automatically be resolved.



Agreed.



Agreed.

---
@k s ahmed, in the beginning of my post I had missed out on typing "not".

 

[Surya 1]

Our eastern neighbor should rename itself Bharat or something else.

You have become Pakistan so why do you worry about what name should India keep?

 

[jamahir]

why not it will resolve ? that rule was the base of partition ..

The Partition was 73 years ago. We must look for new solutions.

either you go that rule or either you let them live alone happily
you cant occupy that place

I am very much in favor of demilitarization of the Kashmir Valley and its surroundings with only a border-security force remaining. I am copy-pasting my post from the previous age. Please read it again. You will see that the Kashmir issue is resolved :

As for the political entities called India and Pakistan, they can continue with those names but what I want is that these two should have Progressive poltical systems, which would be to their benefit. The main issue between the two countries is Kashmir and this issue needs a political solution. Here's my contribution towards that :

1. Let India and Pakistan both become governed by the same Progressive / Socialist Direct Democracy system, while remaining two independent countries. This will be like how pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were, both governed by Ba'ath ideology while remaining two independent republics.

2. Let the India-administered Kashmir remain with India and Pakistan-administered Kashmir remain with Pakistan.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border which is passable by passport for the reasons of trade, tourism and family visits.
This will remove most of the militant ideology surrounding the Kashmir issue. The only remaining militantism will be of the Regressive religious sort and that can be sorted out by both countries.
​

And this will also have the great effect of bringing both countries to a Progressive political system and governance.​

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

So called Indus-Pakistanis are free to migrate to India and start practicing idol worships over their just like their pagan ancestors did. Islamic Republic of Pakistan is a reality and it will remain so. There is nothing to be proud of ancient Indus Vally which could be seen as an icon of ancient 'Jahilyat'. Not civilization.

So Egyptians and Iraqis can be proud of their ancient civilizations, but Pakistanis can't be?

Ofcourse we can. Let us not play that Indian logic here. It is just a justification to steal our history.

 

[Old School]

So Egyptians and Iraqis can be proud of their ancient civilizations, but Pakistanis can't be?

No one wants to become like an Egyptian or Iraqi. These are doomed nations. We pakistanis do not know how much better we are than many other.

 

[k s ahmed]

i read it hence i replied.

The Partition was 73 years ago. We must look for new solutions.



I am very much in favor of demilitarization of the Kashmir Valley and its surroundings without only a border-security force remaining. I am copy-pasting my post from the previous age. Please read it again. You will see that the Kashmir issue is resolved :

As for the political entities called India and Pakistan, they can continue with those names but what I want is that these two should have Progressive poltical systems, which would be to their benefit. The main issue between the two countries is Kashmir and this issue needs a political solution. Here's my contribution towards that :

1. Let India and Pakistan both become governed by the same Progressive / Socialist Direct Democracy system, while remaining two independent countries. This will be like how pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were, both governed by Ba'ath ideology while remaining two independent republics.

2. Let the India-administered Kashmir remain with India and Pakistan-administered Kashmir remain with Pakistan.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border which is passable by passport for the reasons of trade, tourism and family visits.
This will remove most of the militant ideology surrounding the Kashmir issue. The only remaining militantism will be of the Regressive religious sort and that can be sorted out by both countries.
​

And this will also have the great effect of bringing both countries to a Progressive political system and governance.​

 

[jamahir]

i read it hence i replied.

So can you write your response in a more detailed and simpler manner ??

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

The area known as India would have only denoted the Indus Valley during 6th Century BCE when Scylax of Carynda sailed down till the Arabian sea.....But by the time Megasthenese came to India and definietley by the time Arrian's Indica was written, India meant the present Republic of India plus the eastern half of present Republic of Pakistan plus Bangladesh...Let's not obfuscate matters and bring a bit of nuance into the discussion

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I am fine with "India" which was the unifying term that the Brits called their realm.

So if the British instead their 'realm' Gangadesh or Gangia, you would be fine with that?

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

So if the British instead their 'realm' Gangadesh or Gangia, you would be fine with that?

There is a name called Bharatiya Ganarajya....Republic of Bharat