the word "india" refers to present day pakistan

[Chhatrapati]

So if the British instead their 'realm' Gangadesh or Gangia, you would be fine with that?

There can be a lot of If's. If the British hadn't come, then the history will be different, if Arab invaders didn't come there will be another future, if the Central Asian didn't come, there will be yet another future.

You can't pick and choose when these if's apply and do not apply. What's done is done, there is no point in debating over trivial issues like the nomenclature of a country when this name is fixed. The global narrative is set, India is strongly advocating these more than ever. Nobody in Pakistan is going to teach what is written in Vedas, Upanishads or Puranas nobody would research any of the texts. What you're left with is the ruins of that civilization that still thrive in India.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

That is not true. We can immediately see that through Ghulam Ali, Zeba Bakhtiar, Salma Agha, Fawad khan, Humaima Malik, Javed Sheikh, Ali Zafar, Mawra Hocaine, Mahira Khan, Atif Aslam, Adnan Sami, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Raahat Fateh Ali Khan easily working in Indian films. And Shilpa Shukla, Nandita Das and Naseeruddin Shah easily working in Pakistani films.

I have watched Pakistani comedy stage shows and I could identify with them. Pakistani cinemas have played Hindi films like Raid because they could identify with these films.

The fact regarding this, is that if we had chosen Farsi instead of Urdu as our national language in 1947; the same could have been said between Pakistan and Iran.

There are various other factors that further delve into these reasons. Such as Bollywood/India idealizing the 'Pakistani or NW Indian appearance'; for it's models, actors, etc... Hence why despite Punjab only making up around 2% of India's population, an overwhelming majority of Indian models/actors trace their descent to Punjab and Pakistan. Similar to how South Africa prefers people of European/mixed ancestry for their model industry.

Punjabi culture is also over-represented in Bollywood, especially songs and music.

To use this as a factor of how "Pakistani and Indian people are the same" is silly and flawed.

If you wish to discuss any other 'factors', save your time, had a very similar discussion before and answered them quite well.

1. Let India and Pakistan both become governed by the same Progressive / Socialist Direct Democracy system, while remaining two independent countries. This will be like how pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were, both governed by Ba'ath ideology while remaining two independent republics.

Out of all the countries you can try this silly experiment with, why choose Pakistan? We're not interested in a forced marriage. I am all for having good relations once the Kashmir dispute is settled through a referendum, but we do want to go anywhere beyond that.

But by the time Megasthenese came to India and definietley by the time Arrian's Indica was written, India meant the present Republic of India plus the eastern half of present Republic of Pakistan plus Bangladesh

The confusion actually stems back to Herodotus. His lack of geographic knowledge of the region led to him referring to "All lands East of Persia" as India, other contemporary and succeeding geographers would follow suite.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

The fact regarding this, is that if we had chosen Farsi instead of Urdu as our national language in 1947; the same could have been said between Pakistan and Iran.

There are various other factors that further delve into these reasons. Such as Bollywood/India idealizing the 'Pakistani or NW Indian appearance'; for it's models, actors, etc... Hence why despite Punjab only making up around 2% of India's population, an overwhelming majority of Indian models/actors trace their descent to Punjab and Pakistan. Similar to how South Africa prefers people of European/mixed ancestry for their model industry.

Punjabi culture is also over-represented in Bollywood, especially songs and music.

To use this as a factor of how "Pakistani and Indian people are the same" is silly and flawed.

If you wish to discuss any other 'factors', save your time, had a very similar discussion before and answered them quite well.

Out of all the countries you can try this silly experiment with, why choose Pakistan? We're not interested in a forced marriage. I am all for having good relations once the Kashmir dispute is settled through a referendum, but we do want to go anywhere beyond that.


The confusion actually stems back to Herodotus. His lack of geographic knowledge of the region led to him referring to "All lands East of Persia" as India, other contemporary and succeeding geographers would follow suite.

Can't blame the guy...another way to dissect this problem would be to see how Chinese Buddhist Pilgrims defined both the regions of modern day Pakistan as well as modern day Northern India ...Here there is the genesis of a much more granulated view

The NorthWest India (present Pak) is denoted as Tian Zhu which makes up its distinct region but still in someway within the greater Juandu (entire North India)...This is a good indication that these texts were written before 400 AD

The divergence between present day Pak and rest of Northern India started somewhere around 1500 BCE with the momentous Battle of Ten Kings...Lands west of Chenab or at the very least lands West of Ravi started to be viewd as being inhabited by tribes hostile to the royal dynasty that sponsored the creation of the Rig Veda....this division more or less became final with the final rescension of Mahabharata around 400 AD and with the rise of Gupta empire, which stopped right around the eastern bank of Chenab....

The Trans-Indus region has a history of its own that is removed both from North Indian history and from the more widely covered Pashtun/Afghan (old definition) history...

It is a crossover region from the Indic world to the Iranic world and still somehow straddles both without being either of the two

I will be the first to accept the Trans-Indus polity would have been inevitable with or without Islam




As for the mistake of Herodotus, well later Greeks and Romans kind of persisted with it and it is from their traditions modern academic discipline of History comes from ....I do think it would serve all of us better if Bharata as a name was standardized across all languages




https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/hhshu/houhanshutextonly.html

 

[Mamluk]

You have become Pakistan so why do you worry about what name should India keep?

Because your country is named after one of our provinces. We should take you to court like Greece did with Macedonia.

Our country was always
Punjab
Afghans (KPK)
Kashmir
Sindh (= India)
BalochisTAN

Pakistan is an acronym, not a new name you dumb Dalit.

 

[Surya 1]

Because your country is named after one of our provinces. We should take you to court like Greece did with Macedonia.

Our country was always
Punjab
Afghans (KPK)
Kashmir
Sindh (= India)
BalochisTAN

Pakistan is an acronym, not a new name you dumb Dalit.

Yes, I have always said that India separated from pakistan and Hinduism is a foreign religion came to India. Are you happy jhihadi ?

 

[Mamluk]

Yes, I have always said that India separated from pakistan and Hinduism is a foreign religion came to India. Are you happy jhihadi ?

Are you blind? India never separated, it is STILL one of our provinces.

You are fake India.

Hinduism practiced in your country is a polluted, corrupted, dirty form of the Rig Vedic religion that was invented in Pakistan.

Original Rig Vedic religion did not have castes like you do, temple prostitution, burning widows, forcing lower caste women to keep their breasts uncovered or drinking cow cola.

 

[vishwambhar]

Does India produce spices that is needed by European in the ancient time that lead to India colonization ? The source of spices is actually in Indonesia.

No Brits first found spices in India.... later they started farming spices in java and Sumatra in Indonesia..... source of spices was always India with Indians using those 1000s of years prior before the arrival of European....

 

[Sine Nomine]

in order to cultivate a pre islamic history which pakistani textbooks never do some nationalists try to ''rob'' indian history''

repeated claims by them that the indians were actually pakistanis, panini was pakistani so was kautilya etc just shows desperate measures.

Panini and kautilya were both born in area which makes up modern day Pakistan,throughout ages area has been Part of serveral kingdoms and India is another name for Indus River which flows in Pakistan and on who's banks Hinduism along with it's books was born.
We are not trying to rob or steal something from anyone merely stating facts,you shouldn't feel butthurt for that.

At least now Pakistanis started believing that Pakistan was part of Ancient India. So there's a hope of them getting rid of identity crisis after all.

We are still part of same Geography.

 

[vishwambhar]

Panini and kautilya were both born in area which makes up modern day Pakistan,throughout ages area has been Part of serveral kingdoms and India is another name for Indus River which flows in Pakistan and on who's banks Hinduism along with it's books was born.
We are not trying to rob or steal something from anyone merely stating facts,you shouldn't feel butthurt for that.

That was a time when it was only and only Bharat Varsh..... All those parts were actually parts of world's most ancient country or civilization Bharat Varsh.... Greeks, Persians used to call it HIND..... When Brit's decided to name it India from Indus river that time also Pakistan or even name Pakistan didn't exist as it was a concept developed in 1930s.... Bharat Varsh was spread over the span of Afghanistan in west till Sayam ( Thailand) in East in ancient times...

 

[jamahir]

So if the British instead their 'realm' Gangadesh or Gangia, you would be fine with that?

No.

I prefer simple "India".

What is this obsession some Pakistani members have with "Gangadesh" ??

Should I call Pakistan as "Hindia" or "Hind" because in reality Pakistan cannot disassociate with that name ??

Out of all the countries you can try this silly experiment with, why choose Pakistan?

Do Algeria or Finland or Zimbabwe have a border problem with India ??

I am all for having good relations once the Kashmir dispute is settled through a referendum, but we do want to go anywhere beyond that.

Will the Indian establishment agree to a referendum ?? Will the Pakistani establishment agree if the Kashmiris in IAK want an independent country with no connection to Pakistan ??

What I was proposing was a practical solution which not only will solve the Kashmir issue but also bring Progressive political and social ideas to the largely Regressive region that is India and Pakistan.

 

[SIPRA]

What I was proposing was a practical solution which not only will solve the Kashmir issue but also bring Progressive political and social ideas to the largely Regressive region that is India and Pakistan.

The most interesting feature of your proposed solution is that it is not acceptable to any party of the dispute.

 

[vishwambhar]

Like South Africa we should change our name to South Asia.... We cover 70% of land in this part of world so we truly represent South Asia....
In cricket it will be great to hear commentary on South Africa Vs South Asia....

 

[jamahir]

The most interesting feature of your proposed solution is that it is not acceptable to any party of the dispute.

Well then, they will keep quarreling for the next 50 years like five-year-old kids.

Like South Africa we should change our name to South Asia.... We cover 70% of land in this part of world so we truly represent South Asia....
In cricket it will be great to hear commentary on South Africa Vs South Asia....

Good idea.

Why not SAPF ( South Asian Progressive Federation ) ??

 

[SIPRA]

Since, now, it is difficult to achieve "Akhand Bharat"; India should be renamed as "Paakhand Bharat".

 

[jamahir]

@vishwambhar, why not all the SAARC countries band together in the near-future under the SAPF name ?? I mean all SAARC countries being separate republics but each being governed by the same Progressive political system.

Since, now, it is difficult to achieve "Akhand Bharat"; India should be renamed as "Paakhand Bharat".

Hah hah.