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The Uyghur issue

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Do you also got the ammount of words, instead of percentages ? from 1931
Unfortunately no but Türk Dil Kurumu might help you out since they are the ones who replaced foreign words with Turkic ones and still doing so.

During the 1930s and 1940s, it led massive campaigns to replace the many Arabic, Persian, Greek and French loanwords whose immense use in the Turkish language during the centuries preceding the foundation of the Republic had created a literary language considerably different from the spoken Turkish of the time, which is now called Ottoman Turkish.

Turkish Language Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Türk Dil Kurumu Ana Sayfası
 
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I would say just thank the last millenia where Ottoman Turkish was more Arabic than actual Turkish, Turkey Turkish today has more Turkic words in vocabulary than last 1000 years.


Ottoman Turkish

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Today Turkish

800px-TurkishVocabulary.png



Man those graphs helped me out so many times. :D

Bro, but you know that the first graph is somehow wrong or gives wrong implications?!!! It just shows the official language used in governmental stuff, and not related to common people. Basically, what happened was getting the "Official Language" more close to the language that people speak. Think about it in this way. Azerbaijani and Anatolian turkish have always been close, right? (90%+ similarity)
Now, if the language that common people speak in Turkiye, would have changed dramatically as this graph shows, then we could not understand more than 50% of each other languages.
 
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Bro, but you know that the first graph is somehow wrong or gives wrong implications?!!! It just shows the official language used in governmental stuff, and not related to common people. Basically, what happened was getting the "Official Language" more close to the language that people speak. Think about it in this way. Azerbaijani and Anatolian turkish have always been close, right? (90%+ similarity)
Now, if the language that common people speak in Turkiye, would have changed dramatically as this graph shows, then we could not understand more than 50% of each other languages.
No the first graph is made by counting the number of foreign words in Newspapers of specific years, so it was spoken Turkish of that time, even when you listen to Atatürks speeches it sound different than todays Turkish.
 
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Do you also got the ammount of words, instead of percentages ? from 1931`

Because that same Uyghur told me, he had no problems reading ottoman language written books since the way of writing was the same in their nation.....

So..... We made a deal with lenin, but ended up getting futher from our brothers

Changing scripts to latin was one the best, if not the best, actions done by Turkish government. It made reading much easier. I can read Arabic(basically Ottoman) script and know how useless it is to write turkic languages.
Sorry, but I have an impression that you just want to bash turkiye no matter of what the subject of discussion is.
 
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Changing scripts to latin was one the best, if not the best, actions done by Turkish government. It made reading much easier. I can read Arabic(basically Ottoman) script and know how useless it is to write turkic languages.
Sorry, but I have an impression that you just want to bash turkiye no matter of what the subject of discussion is.

Changing to Latin may have been good idea. But changing the society to European was bad.
 
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No the first graph is made by counting the number of foreign words in Newspapers of specific years, so it was spoken Turkish of that time, even when you listen to Atatürks speeches it sound different than todays Turkish.

Well, bro, that was exactly my point. The written language(like newspapers), and elites language, was more influenced by Arabic. Now, try to find audios of common people speaking turkish, and you would find it less arabized than elites ;) Basically, Arabization of islamic countries languages, not limited to turkic and including farsi, ... as well, was a process that at least started from 8th Hijri century, and reversed after building of nation states in the region ;)

Changing to Latin may have been good idea.
:tup:
But changing the society to European was bad.

Well, pushing it more forward may not be a correct policy now, but it was necessary to some extent in that era. Now, we need to define, some ideal turkic society, and push the society into that direction.
 
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Well, pushing it more forward may not be a correct policy now, but it was necessary to some extent in that era. Now, we need to define, some ideal turkic society, and push the society into that direction.

Your secular, European wannabe ideal society doesnt give a damn about Turkic world nor about Azerbaijan which includes you as well.
 
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Well, bro, that was exactly my point. The written language(like newspapers), and elites language, was more influenced by Arabic. Now, try to find audios of common people speaking turkish, and you would find it less arabized than elites ;) Basically, Arabization of islamic countries languages, not limited to turkic and including farsi, ... as well, was a process that at least started from 8th Hijri century, and reversed after building of nation states in the region ;)
But written Turkish was the basis of Ottoman Turkish and probably what people in Istanbul spoke at that time.
 
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Your secular, European wannabe ideal society doesnt give a damn about Turkic world nor about Azerbaijan which includes you as well.

Why secularism is in contrast to nationalism, or pan turkism?
IMHO, I think it is the reverse, and religious orientation is anti-nationalism and anti Pan-Turkism, because religions in general are internationalists not nationalists.

But written Turkish was the basis of Ottoman Turkish and probably what people in Istanbul spoke at that time.
Not exactly ;)
elites >> more close to official and written language
Common people >> more far away from such arabized language
Again, I want to second that it has not just been a rule for turkic languages and it has been the same for almost all languages of islamic countries ;)
 
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Why secularism is in contrast to nationalism, or pan turkism?
IMHO, I think it is the reverse, and religious orientation is anti-nationalism and anti Pan-Turkism, because religions in general are internationalists not nationalists.

When I was young, I was more nationalist. Turkic Union, Turan etc... I was cheering for it, fighting for it... Etc... Then with years passed, I saw these secular nationalists' darker side. They were just image, in soul they were assimilated by western culture and dropped what little Turkic values they had.

With the years I accepted Muslim middleastern culture. I stand for building Muslim defense against Western occupiers. Yet still I see Azerbaijan as no.1 ally. But for Central Asia, they are distant, far from our hearts.
 
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When I was young, I was more nationalist. Turkic Union, Turan etc... I was cheering for it, fighting for it... Etc... Then with years passed, I saw these secular nationalists' darker side. They were just image, in soul they were assimilated by western culture and dropped what little Turkic values they had.

With the years I accepted Muslim middleastern culture. I stand for building Muslim defense against Western occupiers. Yet still I see Azerbaijan as no.1 ally. But for Central Asia, they are distant, far from our hearts.

Well, I also agree that we should not jump from other side of the roof. Not a western assimilated society in the name of secularism, or Eastern assimilated in the name of islamism, helps us. We need to find the balance point in which we use secularism principles, and also strengthen our values. That was what I meant by defining some ideal Turkic society, which it won't be European or islamic assimilated, yet uses the secularism principles, and secures our interests in ME and elsewhere.
 
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Changing scripts to latin was one the best, if not the best, actions done by Turkish government. It made reading much easier. I can read Arabic(basically Ottoman) script and know how useless it is to write turkic languages.
Sorry, but I have an impression that you just want to bash turkiye no matter of what the subject of discussion is.

I would have agreed on that, IF it wasn't with the following consequences.. btw writing arabic is easier

 
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After having experienced several Uyghur related threads on PDF, I realized that we, Turkish members, should have our own thread for it where we can freely discuss without unnecessary restrictions. News about the current situation could be placed and discussed here. However, I do not wish to see posts related to violent separatism. Only realistic and sensible posts are welcome, if you cannot adhere to that rule, stay away.

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Uighur lawyer tortured to death in China

A young Uighur lawyer in China's East Turkestan (Xinjiang) province has died from her injuries as a result of torture by the Chinese authorities.

Gulnar Abdulahat was abducted last year after it was found that she had leaked video footage of a trial of one of her clients who was sentenced to death.

The 30-year-old lawyer had complained that her client was not receiving a fair trial, and by leaking the footage to the internet, she managed to publicize the poor treatment towards her client.

Abdulahat was later removed from the trial, after the leaked videos were discovered and deleted. She was then arrested for seperatism.

Her family requested for her to be returned on discovering that she was 'sick' and continuously worsening. When she was released, her family said that she was unable to stand, had all of her nails removed, a swollen face and wounds all over her body.

Days later on March 10, Gulnar Abdulahat had given in to her injuries and passed away. According to RFA radio, after her death, the Chinese authorities also arrested her parents, who are still being held in custody.

Uighur lawyer tortured to death in China | Asia-Pasific | Worldbulletin News

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Turkish officials trying to identify group found in Thailand

Diplomats from the Turkish Embassy in Bangkok arrived at an immigration detention center in southern Thailand on Friday to identify 220 people who claim to be Turkish refugees and have expressed a desire to be relocated to the country.

"I have been instructed to establish their identity. My findings will be passed to my headquarters. They don't have documentations, as far as I know,” Ahmet Akay, the deputy chief of mission from the Turkish Embassy in Bangkok told the Anadolu Agency.

Speaking to reporters immediately after a brief meeting with the refugees' leaders, Akay said they appeared to be speaking a dialect of a Turkic language and that they had expressed a desire to be located to Turkey.

When asked if the refugees were Turkish citizens, Akay said: “Ethnicity and citizenship are two different thing. This is a humanitarian situation.”

He said it was not up to the embassy in Bangkok to decide whether they would be permitted to relocate to Turkey, or whether they would be classified as asylum seekers.

The two diplomats will remain at the scene until Sunday to work with Thai officials to determine the identity of the 220 refugees -- 78 of whom are men, 60 are women and 82 are children, mostly toddlers.

The group was discovered Wednesday night residing in a remote camp surrounded by a rubber plantation and was immediately relocated to the detention center.

Authorities initially tried to separate the women and children from the men to place them at a government-run Child Protection Centre, but the men refused to allow them to do so.

The group then spent two nights in tents at the Immigration Detention Centre compound, which is situated less than two kilometers from the entrance to Hat Yai International Airport.

During this time, authorities were unable to garner little information from them.

Police Major General Thatchai Pitaneelaboot, the chief of Thailand’s immigration bureau in the south, said the refugees would not provide any personal information, such as their country of origin, their nationality or how they arrived in southern Thailand.

Only one person, a presumed leader of the group, would talk and all he would say was that his people are “Turkish” and added that he would only talk to Turkish officials, Pitaneelaboot said.

A group of local Thai Muslim females arrived at the detention Friday afternoon with halal food and to act as go-between for the authorities by speaking Arabic, yet the refugees refused to provide any more information.

A turning point came with the arrival of the Turkish diplomats and a self-proclaimed teacher Erkin Ezizi, who flew from Ankara and arrived in southern Thailand on the same flight as the Turkish diplomats.

The refugee men wept openly on seeing him. Some walked over and hugged Ezizi tightly as he appeared to comfort them with encouraging words.

Ezizi was traveling on a Turkish passport but a Thai translator said, judging from his dialect, he may have been an ethnic Uighur living in Turkey.

Ezizi and the diplomats urged the refugees to cooperate with Thai immigration officials who have expressed frustration over their inability to communicate with the refugees and the refugees unwillingness to provide basic information about their country of origin, their immediate plans in southern Thailand or how they arrived in the Southeast Asian country.

Thai immigration officials also held a closed door meeting with a Chinese official from the consulate in Songkhla province on Friday morning but the diplomat did not meet with the refugees or speak to the press.

“The Chinese diplomat just wanted our briefings and informed us that they stand by to provide any assistance should we request it,” Police Major General Thatchai said.

Thatchai said he suspected that the refugees are part of a human trafficking network that work with local “agents.”

“Rohingya refugees (from Burma) have come through this region and lately more Bangladeshi have been arriving on our shores. This is the first of such a group, of this scale, who appeared to have originated from Central Asia,” Thatchai said.

He added that Thailand has a porous border with many entry points, especially along the coastal areas, making it easy for people to enter.

In what appeared to be a related incident, Malaysian border officials have detained 62 self-proclaimed “Turks” suspected of entering Malaysia illegal on its northern border with Thailand. They were spotted on the Thai-Malaysian border fence at about 5:30am on Thursday.

Authorities have yet to establish if the 220 “Turks” in southern Thailand were from the same human trafficking network.

Senior Thai government officials told the Anadolu Agency on Friday that they are aware that the entire world is watching and that they have to be careful about how they handle this issue.

A source working in an environment connected to the livelihood of refugees told the Anadolu Agency on Thursday that he suspected that the unidentified group of Muslims are Uyghur from Xinjiang province in western China.

“If it is established that they are Uighur from Xinjiang, it could be a diplomatic headache if the Chinese government decide to pressure Thailand and ask for their deportation,” the man, who did not wish to be named for reasons of confidentiality, said,

Malaysia came under strong criticism from human rights organizations in December 2013 when officials deported six Uyghur.

Similarly, in December 2009, Cambodia, despite objections form the United States and the United Nations, deported 20 ethnic Uyghur minority back to China.

The deportation came at the height of communal violence between ethnic Han Chinese and the local Uyghur in the Chinese province of Xinjiang. Nearly 200 people, mostly Han Chinese, were killed during the riot.

The Uyghur people are a Turkic-speaking ethnic minority group who have accused the Chinese of government of human rights violation and discrimination against them.

Turkish officials trying to identify group found in Thailand | Asia-Pasific | Worldbulletin News
Uighurs should get more autonomy. The overt Chinese ethnic persecution is crossing limits.
 
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I would have agreed on that, IF it wasn't with the following consequences.. btw writing arabic is easier


Have you ever wrote arabic script? if not, do not make such conclusions. I have written arabic scripts for more than a decade, and I know that it's not even useful for all arabic dialects, let alone foreign languages. it has many letters that we don't use, and does not have a capable system for showing vowels. IMHO, using Neanderthal script, if exists any, would be more easy.
 
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Well, I also agree that we should not jump from other side of the roof. Not a western assimilated society in the name of secularism, or Eastern assimilated in the name of islamism, helps us. We need to find the balance point in which we use secularism principles, and also strengthen our values. That was what I meant by defining some ideal Turkic society, which it won't be European or islamic assimilated, yet uses the secularism principles, and secures our interests in ME and elsewhere.

I can read Asikpasazade's Tevarih-i Al-i Osman, or Kemalpasazade's Tevarih-i Al-i Osman. Or Tatar chroniks etc... But seculars, or fake Islamists cannot read those. Our 1000 years history has been abandoned in the shelves of old libraries.

Have you ever wrote arabic? if not, do not make such conclusions. I have written arabic scripts for more than a decade, and I know that it's not even useful for all arabic dialects, let alone foreign languages. it has many letters that we don't use, and does not have a capable system for showing vowels. IMHO, using Neanderthal alphabet, if exists any, would be more easy.

I did. I stand for learning it. Youngsters cannot even read the scripts on the chesmes. You know Cesme? The structure from which water flows.

Do you know how many books, ruznamas, salnamas, chroniks, poems were written in Arabic script? We need to learn those, not Dostoyevskiy's Crime and Punishment.

You know Karinca ile cirlayik story. Children learn this story from La Fontaine. But we had this story in our Ottoman books since 15th century.
 
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