The US cannot afford an open conflict with Pakistan

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Now subtract the number of people who will be well versed in the art of warfare : tactics, logistics, reconnaissance, medical, anti-armour etc. and you will get about ?

If every single street is a death trap what will the enemey do? kill all of the people? what if a few people out of millions explode a few dirty bombs all accross the enemy country?

But lets not get into it............There is going to be no war between USA-Pakistan........... This thread should be taken lightly.

 

[AAtish]

Now subtract the number of people who will be well versed in the art of warfare : tactics, logistics, reconnaissance, medical, anti-armour etc. and you will get about ?

In Pakistan, children are automatically trained in "warfare", we just need "group leaders" and rest will be taken care of automatically.. You won't understand cuz you have never been to Pakistan..

Rest assured though, there won't be any open war in between Pakistan and USA/NATO, neither are dumb enough..

 

[Nothing]

In Pakistan, children are automatically trained in "warfare", we just need "group leaders" and rest will be taken care of automatically.. You won't understand cuz you have never been to Pakistan..

Rest assured though, there won't be any open war in between Pakistan and USA/NATO, neither are dumb enough..

Yeah we know that.... way they are blowing themselves with suicide belt

 

[LeGenD]

Here is something for you..

The US is Running Out of Ammunition for the Coming Economic Crisis

“The United States may well be faced with a recessionary trend coupled with a potential financial crisis with no remedy at hand because of its policies over the past two and a half years. As for the American people, who instinctively know all is not well, they must continue to reduce their personal debt burden, not assume new debt, and be prepared to ride out the storm if and when it breaks. The Republicans in Congress must ignore the hysteria and doom and gloom scenarios proffered by the media and the Democrats and dramatically reduce spending permanently before any increase in the debt ceiling.
The financial world will not collapse if the US does not raise its debt ceiling based on an artificial timetable; but there will be a major crisis of disastrous proportions down the road if spending, debt, and runaway government are not brought under control and the country cannot reimburse its bond holders with or without paying a usurious interest rate.”

Do you think that one analyst can determine the course of US economy? Reports like these are based on lots of ifs and buts.

Here is a different picture:

U.S. economic growth to outpace Canada's: UN report

Hopes rise for US economic recovery | Business | guardian.co.uk

We need to worry about the fate of our nation, which is actually sinking in to abyss with passage of time due to corruption, terrorism, and strategic blunders rather then focusing on supposed doom of others.

Exactly my point, It was what they “thought” but the global outcry ensured that they had to leave the control..

U.S. Companies Shut Out as Iraq Auctions Its Oil Fields

“Those who claim that the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 to get control of the country's giant oil reserves will be left scratching their heads by the results of last weekend's auction of Iraqi oil contracts: Not a single U.S. company secured a deal in the auction of contracts that will shape the Iraqi oil industry for the next couple of decades. Two of the most lucrative of the multi-billion-dollar oil contracts went to two countries which bitterly opposed the U.S. invasion — Russia and China — while even Total Oil of France, which led the charge to deny international approval for the war at the U.N.”

And US will provide exclusive details about its (backdoor) OIL related deals and ambitions in Iraq? US has found an alternative in Libya, in case of emergency.

Some data for you: Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

No sane analyst ever predicted US to destabilize in Iraq or Afghan war.. so your point is?

Here is a small glimpse of prediction power of US Think Tank: before the Iraq war began, US Think Tank predicted 5000 casualties in total. Amazingly, US casualties in Iraq are near this mark. Do not underestimate US Think Tank.

Also, check this link: Bush Warns of Long War on Terrorism - Los Angeles Times

"Our campaign will be difficult, and it's going to take time," he said. "But I can promise you this: It will be waged with determination, and it will be waged until we win."

Your illogical flight is too farfetched for me to respond, too many parameters; in short, Pakistan’s economic collapse will not be a problem either way. A full frontal war is going to bring it anyways, which we can survive, though it would take us a decade behind, question is about US.. So please stick to it..

Oh! We can survive economic collapse? Mind telling me that how we will fund the war afterwards? Does our war machine runs on GAS or AIR?

As far as the AWS is concerned, it wouldn’t be possible for US to save those bases for long from consecutive aerial and land based attacks, as I said before, Iraq and Afghanistan were a different ball games, Pakistan is a whole new territory, why do you think the US think tank is still “thinking”? when they have gone to war on lot lesser issues.. (WMDs hoax?)

The level of intelligence and know-how US has managed to develop in a decade regarding Pakistan is beyond the understanding of common citizens here. It was once assumed that CIA could do nothing in Pakistan without ISI. CIA proved us WRONG.

As I said before, US will be doing some serious home work before coming in to Pakistan. GORA has always been admired for his planning.

And we cannot always know what US is shipping in to Afghanistan. Pakistan is not the only route in to Afghanistan for US. We cannot stop them from shipping advanced weapons in to Afghanistan.

First portion responded above.. As far as Iran is concerned, as soon as the war with Pakistan breaks out, Iran would raise the ante in Iraq..

Iran has already been through its Iraq related experiments. Also, Iran risks potential retaliation from Israel in response, if US gives permission to Isreal to do so. US has plans for Iran too. And US can also exploit anti-Iranian sentiments in Middle East to its benefit.

Relevance to the topic?

Iran would be CHECKED in case of hypothetical war against Pakistan.

Even if we take it on the face value, the “terrorists” are anti-American and they would love to have a “Supporting and fighting force” behind them.. More devastation for US IMO..

And they are a match for US military might? Think again.

Once US goes in to Pakistan, all restrictions will be OFF. Carpet bombings (like US did in 2001 in Afghanistan) will send these terrorists to hell.

And that’s the reason for concerns for them, otherwise they would had been in Pakistan a couple of years ago, and you might have been licking or getting kicked by some US and UK boots..

No, Pakistan cooperated to save itself. The very first nation to be threatened by US after 9/11 was (not ironically) Pakistan.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | US 'threatened to bomb' Pakistan

As far as licking or getting kicked by US boots is concerned, that situation applies to you too.

So what do you expect them to say? It’s called bluffing, the worth of the bluff is known when one calls it..

They did not bluff Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya or Syria now did they? If you remember, they did not went in Iraq until few “investigations” were done "thoroughly" before hand by "UN inspectors"..

They are not bluffing with Pakistan. They are dead serious about their INTERESTS in this region.

The very reason that Pakistani administration takes heavy criticism from Pakistani citizens is because it does takes US threats very seriously. It is easy for common man to give verdicts on such a sensitive affair.

Neither would they.. That’s the whole point of my discussion. I never claimed that we would have a flagged victory, now did i?

You are implying victory by talking about US failure. Also, US has a history of backstabbing Pakistan. I am not surprised by their secret 'contingency plans' to deal with (supposed) potential nuclear threats arising from Pakistan. Of course, terrorists will provide an excuse.

I agree to this whole heartedly, firstly, we shouldn’t have joined Soviet-Afghan war, secondly, we should have kept Afghans in a barb-wired area and should have sent them back as soon as US withdrew its support and troops.

Good. And we still need to learn from history.

And when have I claimed that we are not in war? We are in war right now my friend, not a full-frontal though, and we should avoid it as much as possible.

Yes. This is why I advice my fellow brethren to understand the position of Pak administration vis-a-vis USA. Trust me! Pak administration is in a very uncomfortable position right now. It has to maintain a delicate balance between US policies and local sentiments.

Reason I have mentioned already, there is nothing US can get out of there anymore, so its time for them to leave the mess they created.. As Usual..

Do not forget that US-Iraq security cooperation will remian. And also secret OIL related deals.

Again, leaving the mess for us Pakistanis to clean..

A nightmarish situation for us indeed. The endgame in Afghanistan will decide the future course of relationship between Pakistan and US for a long time.

Hope they get out and leave us alone, any further infiltration in Pakistan’s affairs would inflame the public more and then we might see people taking matters into their own hands.. which won't be good IMHO..

Public has taken matters in to its own hands before. Pakistani citizens went in to Afghanistan to wage jihad against US forces in 2001. What happened to them has been covered up and side-lined.

They understand it better then me, difference is, I am not under direct command of CIC and neither am i CIC who is always “for sale”..

Than have some patience.

Are you qualified or hold an authority to judge prematurish mindset? Or are you just acting like one..

Your prematurish judgments regarding me is the case in point here.

For a zillionth time, Pakistan is in a different league, or shall I “ S P E L L “ it for you?

I don't buy this theory.

Pakistan is a nuclear state, if in the extreme conditions, or through “stupidity” of someone, Pakistan was to use even couple of them, that would be a disaster for the whole region, including India, China, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan and few other countries for next few decades, hence, the involvement certainty..

Hope now you understand..

And US has OVERWHELMING Nuclear response options. US will attempt to nuetralize our nuclear threat if we threaten to use them.

And yes, I fully understand the perils of this hypothetical conflict. Point is that we cannot just blindly toss nukes around in different countries who won't be at war against us.

 

[Emmie]

In Pakistan, children are automatically trained in "warfare", we just need "group leaders" and rest will be taken care of automatically.. You won't understand cuz you have never been to Pakistan.

Sorry brother I dont agree with you, you must have scribbled your reply unintentionally!!.

 

[VelocuR]

It is deeply disappointed that Pakistan seem super confident, children will be trained in warefare, how well they prepared in real-war, try it in Kashmir, enemy soldiers will label them a suicide bombers or human shields behind Al Qeada Terrorists.

Our lovely children will be exactly like Palestine, who throw rocks and stones same as Kashmir freedom fighters. I don't know how Pakistanis patriots are so special other than Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Kashmir, Talibans, they are all ordinary people like you and me. I repeat, Pakistan soldiers are incompetent, corrupt, weak against the United States of America, they will bow to US.

I hope there will not be wars between them, it will be very complex to all South Asians. I give you hints, the real war was almost when Raymond Davis was caught.

The end of the game was to return RD back to US smoothly without harming him. Alas, Pakistan defeated.

 

[Porus]

Aside Pakistan troops, someone say we have 180+million populations to defend Pakistan, LOL. What are the capability of 180 million innocent citizens including women, chidlren, grandpa, grandma?

What kind of training we learn in school? For the sake of stop DRONES in very basic open conflict (grade 1), can we?

suntey raho bhai..barey barey gupbaaz yahan jama hain.

 

[Mutee]

Don't be a fool America can invade us twice with the kind of brave military we have

 

[Emmie]

Don't be a fool America can invade us twice with the kind of brave military we have

Dont you think its bit exaggeration?

 

[pakdefender]

If Pakistan did not have nukes, the war would have already started, the enemy fears the nukes.

Also look here what that Israeli Yahu said in front of the US congress (after he told Barak Obama to push off in a very public way)

For an epic battle is now unfolding in the Middle East, between tyranny and freedom. A great convulsion is shaking the earth from the Khyber Pass to the Straits of Gibraltar. The tremors have shattered states and toppled governments. And we can all see that the ground is still shifting. Now this historic moment holds the promise of a new dawn of freedom and opportunity.

Full Text of Netanyahu Speech to Congress

They have their eyes fixed on the entire Muslim world and the very specific mention of the Khyber Pass is not without motive.

 

[AAtish]

Sorry brother I dont agree with you, you must have scribbled your reply unintentionally!!.

I guess you haven't read the previous pages of this debate, have you?

Please go through them before understanding what i have said here..

Thanks.

 

[AAtish]

Yeah we know that.... way they are blowing themselves with suicide belt

They are not Pakistanis.. and you know that..

 

[AAtish]

Do you think that one analyst can determine the course of US economy? Reports like these are based on lots of ifs and buts.

Here is a different picture:

U.S. economic growth to outpace Canada's: UN report

Hopes rise for US economic recovery | Business | guardian.co.uk

Agreed to the articles here, but u are again missing the point.. US economy can rise back to its previous highs ONLY IF they do not engage themselves in another "major" and “expensive” war, the scenarios given in articles everywhere are based on condition that US does not involves itself into any major spending spree.. the only reason why US is pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan is its economic instability..

Look, I can write point-to-point response to whole of your post again, not a problem, but I do not want to indulge into a continuous spree of posts, which will get larger and larger every post.

This whole debate started on the point that US cannot “afford” an Open conflict with Pakistan.

The basic point is, Pakistan and US are not going to get involved in a full-frontal war, unforeseen threat ratio for both countries is too high, probabilities are numerous, but it seems that US is not going to let its ‘bully’ behaviour go until confronted in a stronger manner and cowards sitting in our Government are too lame in their political approach. (for obvious reasons)

The whole reason of China coming out with the “Any attack on Pakistan..” line was to basically inform US and NATO forces that there is a lot on the line if this war breaks out..

If you want me to still answer you line to line, do let me know..

 

[pakdefender]

US economy is in REAL trouble , it not just speculation , the US government is borrowing at a staggering rate and there is not end in site to this borrowing , the debt ceiling that was set for government borrowing till now has been 14.90 trillion dollars , the US is or is about to reach this ceiling.

This is like maxing out on your credit card in simple terms.. lol

Then to finance their debt, they sell T-bills, China and Japan re-invest their dollars in the US by holding a piece of their US government’s debt when they buy the T-bills , the treasury bill is considered to be a 'safe' investment.

Towards those who buy the T-bills, the US government is in a binding contract that they will pay back with the interest the amount the US gov has borrowed from the one who purchase the T-bills.

In other words US owes money to China [and Japan also] , suppose if the US default on payments back to China .. It’s hard to say what can really happen but it will be a huge economic disaster that will hit the entire world and can potentially lead to war also.

Default also means that the gov programs that the US is running will suffer huge setback , this can also mean US troops going without salary, it will be interesting to see if they still fight on in such a scenario.

Currently the Federal reserve is going on printing dollars but this practise cannot be kept up indefinitely, the interest rates are still very very low in the US and when you print so much dollars with such low interest rates then eventually inflation will go up and the value of dollar will dip.

I mean its quite amazing to see that even the Pakistani rupee rose against the dollar a few days back [ even if by only a few paisa ] , there is surplus dollars in the market and sooner or later this will have negative impact on the dollar.

So all it not well for the US economy and apart from doing gangster type default and telling off those whom they owe money there is not shot way out of their worries.

The US system has maxed out the road ahead will be tough for the US economy and they cannot afford large scale wars anymore. They have squandered off what ever surplus they had in 2001 over the last 10 years

History does indeed repeat itself; the Crusaders that went on a rampage in the end went back bank erupted and unable to capture the prize that was Jerusalem

 

[Hammy007]

You think the US will let any of Pakistan's nukes fly ? Dude your talking about the United States, they have already shown how much they care and what they can do. Their military budget is 10 times the size of the whole Pakistani economy, you really think they will think twice about Pakistani nukes if they really want a war.

source please, thanks