The Un-Intended Eye Opener Of 27th Feb:---

[Tps43]

Seymour Hersh believes that Gen. Kiani and another person permitted that on purpose to boost Obummer

Gen kiyani knew about it otherwise why would he hold paf to scramble there AC’s immediately

 

[Khafee]

Gen kiyani knew about it otherwise why would he hold paf to scramble there AC’s immediately

@MastanKhan You get emotional very quickly. Here is your vindication.

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan You get emotional very quickly. Here is your vindication.

Hi,

See---i don't have a problem with Gen Kiyani for doing that---.

The treason is because he kept his mouth shut and let the world lambast pakistan---.

Now here the pakistani military sympathizer would say that men in power know that---. You know what---men in power in the US mean nothing---.

It the american public that has the power---the electorate can manipulate a single congressman or a senator and he/she would sell you out---.

 

[crankthatskunk]

1) Firstly I had no intention to insult any one. So if you felt that way, I apologize.

>> You and I both know the interception in Air Defense comes later, first is detection through radars etc. That is done well before any jets becomes threat to Pakistani air space or to Pakistani installations. What happened to the Air Defenses in Muzaffarabad area!!

2) Recall that IAF was flying CAPs close to border for few days before the Feb 26. This increased air activity in my opinion was being done to provide cover for what was to come. In routine any unusual sized formation or increased air activity may raise suspicion, but in such heightened air activity such formation would not raise alarm unless it approaches border.

3) Kashmir is mountainous terrain, and terrain provides a good cover for any intruder.

> When you asked what about 2 heavy Chinooks landed at Kala Dacca, were they also stealth!! no answer coming.

> That incident would always be in the history to give us shame, who brought us that shame!!

4) Yes, I agree. Yes PAF was found lacking, but it does not mean we keep ridiculing them for all the years to come. Shit happens at times. Pearl Harbor happened to US.

5) I have skimmed relevant parts of Abbottabad Commision, if my memory serves me right these were main takeaways:

i) PAFs threat assessment did not perceive a threat from western border. (A faulty analysis but we are all intelligent in hindsight)
ii) Due to this threat assessment PAF's had not deployed Low Level Radars on western border in full numbers as would be required to provide reasonable coverage. This was unlike eastern border. American's knew about this and exploited these gaps in Low Level Radar coverage.
iii) Due to above threat assessment, Mobile Observer Units, were also not deployed on western border. MOU although is an old but still effective way to provide air intrusion warning.
iv) PAF conceded that even if it wanted to it did not have the required number of Low Level Radars to provide effective coverage to both fronts simultaneously. Pakistan's mountainous terrain complicates this problem. (My Opinion: Pakistan's Low Level Radars are quite old, and at least American may have been able to jam them very easily anyway.)

Anyways, if you opinion was that OBL raid gave the impression that anyone can come and bomb us, then recent PAF reaction more than corrected this impression specially to our neighbors in the east. That irrespective of what and why USA(super power) was able to pull off once; does not mean that you will be allowed to do that. So you should be happy that PAF corrected any incorrect impression Indian may have gotten from OBL raid.

I am going to limit the discussion to the OBL incident, because since then India has assumed and demanded that they should also be allowed to attack "terrorists hide outs " like the USA did with OBL. We can argue the merits or de-merits of their arguments, but that is beside the point.
The point is that many countries now think that Pakistan is a pushover and rightly so.
Tell me how many attacks like Peshawar school are planned and executed from Afghanistan by RAW and NDS!!!
Tell me one thing concrete done by Pakistan in this regard!!! As a matter of fact, no matter how much we gloss over it, me included, the fact of the matter is that we have left Pakistanis die in great numbers without saying and doing much. Why!! Don't you think everyone , the PA, politicians and others are equally responsible for the death and destruction of Pakistan!!!
Now coming back to OBL. Even if I agree with your analysis that Western Border until that time was not a problem for Pakistan and that low level radar coverage may have not been operational at the time. Accepted.
Now move forward, if you have care to understand my post. You should have realised the radar was only part of my problems. My problems are far more than radar coverage.
1- The Americans were right near to the PA facilities in Abbottabad. Even the press was there. The Americans spent almost 45 minutes in the area before flying back. Cumbersome copters like Chinooks make lots of noise, plus sight.
2- It took another 20/30 minutes for the copters to clear Pakistan airspace. Where was PAF all that time!!! Proven the Radar coverage is just an excuse, nothing but an excuse.
3- Nobody until now has answered my basic question, considering the maximum weight carrying capacity of 11 personnel by Black Hawk, how the seals from downed Black Hawk boarded one remaining copter!! It is just not possible, other Black Hawk would have crashed too.
4- I can dig out the video of the PAF's Air Chief Marshall saying on the TV that the American jets were waiting on Afghanistan soil therefore, we didn't take actions against the copters.

I think mate you are arguing a losing point, you wouldn't be able to answer my legitimate questions. Don't get me wrong, I love Pakistan from bottom of my heart. But with the same token, I cannot support those who have failed Pakistan and caused death of innocent Pakistani people because of their negligence and policies.
I hold every section of the society responsible for it. They have made Pakistani public immune to every kind of disaster so they can get away with stupid excuses no matter how many people died.

My objections regarding 26th Feb response are in this regards. We were lucky that Spice 2000 missed their targets. If they didn't!! What then!! We would have 300+ martyrs on our hands. Who would have accepted the responsibility of their deaths!!! Same excuses like before!!
What if Modi orders new strikes on many fronts. Would we be throwing same excuses of Indian's CAPs flying near
Pakistani borders etc.etc. Do you understand hundreds or thousands of people could die because of one error!!
How you want me to trust an Air Chief Marshall who says I let my air space violated because I was scared Americans would attack!! How you want me to trust an Air Force not to react for over an hour while the enemy was inside Pakistani airspace!!
No, it is not acceptable. I think you, or any Pakistani should not accept it, ever. Thank you.

 

[Mentee]

Gen kiyani single handedly screwed the national cause. You dumb dumb at least proudly wear it on your chest and scream like a kindergarten girl

"Yeeeeeehaw Mr globe , WE did it"!!!

But no instead he activated the Champoo journo Brigade to "blame" the sitting prime minster after his next day statement about the great victory - - - - - -

I mean What was Gilani supposed to say after the heli Born operation already took place? It was a u.s aggression on our sovereignty and we will retaliate?

 

[Khafee]

Gen kiyani single handedly screwed the national cause. You dumb dumb at least proudly wear it on your chest and scream like a kindergarten girl

"Yeeeeeehaw Mr globe , WE did it"!!!

But no instead he activated the Champoo journo Brigade to "blame" the sitting prime minster after his next day statement about the great victory - - - - - -

I mean What was Gilani supposed to say after the heli Born operation already took place? It was a u.s aggression on our sovereignty and we will retaliate?

For that you need to be suicidal, or have balls. Pick one.

 

[Mentee]

Hi,

See---i don't have a problem with Gen Kiyani for doing that---.

The treason is because he kept his mouth shut and let the world lambast pakistan---.

Now here the pakistani military sympathizer would say that men in power know that---. You know what---men in power in the US mean nothing---.

It the american public that has the power---the electorate can manipulate a single congressman or a senator and he/she would sell you out---.

The president The air chief, the army chief the Intel chief you name it saray nageenay aik sath mil gy un dino

For that you need to be suicidal, or have balls. Pick one.

I'd go with baandar killa

 

[Khafee]

The president The air chief, the army chief the Intel chief you name it saray nageenay aik sath mil gy un dino

You mean os hamamm main sub nangay? O bhai, who wears a 3piece suit to the hamamm?

 

[Mentee]

he activated the Champoo journo Brigade to "blame" the sitting prime minster after his next day statement about the great victory - - - - - -

I mean What was Gilani supposed to say after the heli Born operation already took place? It was a u.s aggression on our sovereignty and we will retaliate?

You mean os hamamm main sub nangay? O bhai, who wears a 3piece suit to the hamamm?

 

[Khafee]

Is there a point too this post?

 

[crankthatskunk]

I dont need to reveal anything maself cause im still a over seas contractor with some very important agencies in pakistan , hope u can understand not everything can buyed from countries ?
It brings ppls like me , bad boys , bad ppls , doing bad things , smugling and some other stuff , now what I could have posted , I hve already done tht , I cant go further then that , what u.think , why saudis were dancing around us???
There is more then that but its not our concern , but ISI has all the interviews video tapped of that israeli pilot and abhinanadan togather thats the only.thing I can tell you., no matters how old afghanistan is as conflict but thats the only place where americans can sit and watch over on everyone ?
But thts what no one likes ?
American military establishment and the white house has locked thier horns a long time back and donald trump thinks tht since , vietnam these genrals and CIA were making a lot of money but bringing america into more troubling waters and I think he is right , and u.can see.how many.of thesr genrals and sectries he had fired untill his tenure???

Thanks for the reply. Lets talk about Afghanistan first.
1- I said when Americans reduced their troops strength in Afghanistan that now bad days for the Indians have started. Indians were sitting in Afghanistan running their terror camps for TTP for terror activities in Pakistan, under the protection of the Americans.
2- Once troops number is reduced, Americans would lose the capabilities to monitor and control whatever area was under their control in Afghanistan. If the cannot do it with the help of 10 times the numbers, they cannot do it with smaller numbers. It is common sense.
3- I also said, once their troops numbers down, Americans would have no other option but to leave Afghanistan, it would be very difficult for them to control Afghanistan. My predictions made over 5 years ago, are becoming true.
4- I also said that once Americans leave, what would be the future of the Indians in Afghanistan!! They have to run. If Americans with their superior numbers and technology, couldn't control Afghanistan, how India can!! No Chance for the India to even last for few weeks. This is the point made by President Trump recently when he complained in very angry tone that Indian's failed to commit troops in Afghanistan and their only contribution is a library.
Lets move to the current situation. First of all, I and everyone else thank you for your contribution and information. Saudis want transfer of technology of know how. You know what I am talking about. The things which they would never able to buy like the latest hardware they buy for billions. We leave it to that.

I think you are confirming what my hunch is, even though I am not in the know like you are, that Indians have suffered far more loses than what is revealed until now. All the indications are pointing to it. I am convinced I am right. If you say that Israeli is or was in custody of PAF/ISI then two kills are confirmed. I am sure the mig 21 going down in IOK was also Pakistan's kill, so was the Mi17. I know many here don't agree with me. But this is more realistic analysis than fratricide. Pakistan has mastery of the air on 27th Feb for few minutes. Therefore, it is more likely they shoot down the Mi17 not the Indians.
There could be more kills inside IoK and on the ground too.
As you said you cannot disclose more, which is understandable. But I think I am very close to the truth in my analysis.

 

[Mentee]

Is there a point too this post?

Gilani coukd be corrupt to the core but he took the lead owned it and declared it a victory but nothing from the military chief. This was extremely criminal to be a part of such operation and then step back to put all the blame on the prime minister without reaping any benefits

 

[BATMAN]

Seymour Hersh believes that Gen. Kiani and another person permitted that on purpose to boost Obummer

Don't believe him.
Use common sense, Kiani can't go out in field and order a soldier to let helicopters fly unhurt.
Army is an institute, if they have requested airforce to stand down, there must be a traceable record of it. There's something called army intelligence, they would have known of such treason next day.
I agree that US was given details about the uncovered corridors by some top official of PAF, nothing beyond that.

 

[Khafee]

Gilani coukd be corrupt to the core but he took the lead owned it and declared it a victory but nothing from the military chief. This was extremely criminal to be a part of such operation and then step back to put all the blame on the prime minister without reaping any benefits

Even now, you say "could be corrupt." Oh the innocence!

Don't believe him.
Use common sense, Kiani can't go out in field and order a soldier to let helicopters fly unhurt.
Army is an institute, if they have requested airforce to stand down, there must be a traceable record of it. There's something called army intelligence, they would have known of such treason next day.
I agree that US was given details about the uncovered corridors by some top official of PAF, nothing beyond that.

Something about no radars, in the flt path of the helos comes to mind.

 

[Mentee]

Kiani can't go out in field and order a soldier to let helicopters fly unhurt.

Was kiyani a gullible maiden? He could have owned it and brought Pakistan to the global lime light as a responsible democracy but no he started threatening the sitting govt for the statement issued by p.m.
His silence cost Pakistan a fortune!!!!!

Even now, you say "could be corrupt." Oh the innocence!

Technically speaking even the pebbles of Multan know he is but legally not.