The Un-Intended Eye Opener Of 27th Feb:---

[Khafee]

Was kiyani a gullible maiden? He could have owned it and brought Pakistan to the global lime light as a responsible democracy but no he started threatening the sitting govt for the statement issued by p.m.
His silence cost Pakistan a fortune!!!!!

And he got an extension. Oh Wow!

 

[Mentee]

And he got an extension. Oh Wow!

Dogni chora'n nal ralli hoi thi

 

[crankthatskunk]

To understand that the word "why" you must understand what happened on 27th, Feb 2019. And also, if you can't believe the officials then I have no intention to convince people otherwise. How could you believe a farcical story that IAF "Bombed" or even stayed that longer which may be called some muscle show? Read about RoE and don't take some sabre rattling as credible enough.

When I see many people as such not leading the nation; I am more thankful to Allah. IAF violated airspace and PAF did the right thing on that night. It is indeed an irony to see that where Pakistanis are proud of our retaliation few people are still stuck with Indian propaganda of that night. However, I don't mind such philosophy from people asking these questions because, there are very less that can understand the tactics & strategy or at-least considers every strategic understanding.

Thank you Eagle for your post. Let me tackle the last part first. I have just responded to another post, please read that to understand my apprehensions. If you find them unreasonable, we can communicate further.
Once bitten twice shy is what I am going through. I deplore what had happened on OBL raid and what porkies we were told. That's my cause for concern.
I would be the last person to accept Indian's narration or propaganda. I at no place have said anything remote resembling Indian's propaganda. I only said that thank God their pilots missed their targets, whatever the reasons were for them missing the targets. It saved us from huge loss of lives.
I think I understand the strategic thinking very well. I know it for over 10 years now, what strategic strategy was adopted by Pakistan Army after the arrival of the Americans in Afghanistan.
The simple strategy was to keep your heads down and try to save our assets.
The problem is that without knowing a person, it is very difficult to understand them. Probably that's what you finding about me hard to understand.
Lets hope that Allah SWT save all Pakistanis from harm again when Modi orders overwhelming strikes. Ameen.

 

[Mentee]

And he got an extension. Oh Wow!

That threatening tone of ghq ka mood off Gia mood on ho Gia sent jitters to the pp leadership so they decided to calm this jarnal down. As the nation was pissed over the obl fiasco and was lead into believing that this whole mess was created only by the civvies

 

[crankthatskunk]

Well MK peoples here are thinking that you are saying that when IAF Jets were retreating,we should have engaged them but what i understand you want to say that,the moment they crossed,they should have been locked and fired.

Am i right?

That is exactly I think he is saying. He can speak for himself. What I had been arguing about is that well before the intrusion, we should have been prepared to shoot them down as soon as they entered our air space. That's why I keep harping about OBL incident. In that incident worse had happened, hence my anger about General Kiyani.
He is one single person, who has caused more damage to Pakistan than most ordinary Pakistanis realised. OBL conspiracy is one, and awarding the NRO to PPP and PMLN criminals is second. I think many who are not understanding my point of view or that of @MastanKhan should realise I want betterment of Pakistan. We should all stand up against incompetence, conspiracies against Pakistan. We accuse Indians of their over eager nationalism, and their habits to prove impossible true. But we don't look at our own behaviors to not question.

 

[Mentee]

That is exactly I think he is saying. He can speak for himself. What I had been arguing about is that well before the intrusion, we should have been prepared to shoot them down as soon as they entered our air space. That's why I keep harping about OBL incident. In that incident worse had happened, hence my anger about General Kiyani.
He is one single person, who has caused more damage to Pakistan than most ordinary Pakistanis realised. OBL conspiracy is one,

@crankthatskunk as a high school kid I was in deep shock that how come some u.s helis crept up deep inside pakistani territory at their will, hovered over for a good hour, conducted operation and then flew back uncontested?

But then You know those mm alam accounts make you addicted to the myth of air superiority - - - - -

G vo hamary Radar bnd thy


Sir vo homework kia hai but kaapi ghr reh gy

Sir vo m so Gia tha

Kan phar la

 

[Arsalan 345]

rather than blaming paf for balakot,it's better to ask questions to higher authorities.how can you bring down an enemy plane when you don't have any order! order was given after balakot and next morning,iaf was stunned.there are so many problems.current situation is critical and all three chiefs held meetings with pm.they want permission of pm before taking any action against india.our pm believes in peace but our armed forces know the real intention of india.this peace posture is giving strength to indian armed forces.war isn't the solution but you can't give excuses when your enemy use your airspace for fun.pm should give clear orders.there is no place for peace.

 

[Mentee]

rather than blaming paf for balakot,it's better to ask questions to higher authorities.how can you bring down an enemy plane when you don't have any order! order was given after balakot

 

[crankthatskunk]

rather than blaming paf for balakot,it's better to ask questions to higher authorities.how can you bring down an enemy plane when you don't have any order! order was given after balakot and next morning,iaf was stunned.there are so many problems.current situation is critical and all three chiefs held meetings with pm.they want permission of pm before taking any action against india.our pm believes in peace but our armed forces know the real intention of india.this peace posture is giving strength to indian armed forces.war isn't the solution but you can't give excuses when your enemy use your airspace for fun.pm should give clear orders.there is no place for peace.

Hi Arsalan, That's the point I was answering after someone stated the orders were from high up not to shoot the IAF fighters. One thing we should never do is to criticise our soldiers or lower ranks officers. They risk their lives to protect the motherland. The problem is with always with the Generals and other high ups. Same thing has happened on 26th. Otherwise we know that Pakistani CAPs were in the air, they stopped the intrusions on two places further south. Here IAF not only entered our airspace but was also allowed to fire the spice 2000. This is unpardonable. Those bombs would have caused massive damage, if not missed the targets.

Russia knows what happened with Su 30.
The proud moment for me was 2 Jft’s and 1 F16 having locks on 5 Su30’s and those su 30’s were fleeing away .

That's great. It would be fantastic if those 5 Su30 were downed. Don't you think mate!!!

Most probably i remember on Mar 01 or 02 ...i posted Mr. Zafar Hilali comments as he said there were eye witnesses of one F-15 flying during that clash... there were a discussion on other forum of possibility of one hostile F-16 in Pak colours. The same tactics was adopted by these two enemies in early 80s to to attack Kahutta ...(google it)

Next day someone here refuted the idea ...and i deleted my posts.

I remember posting the video of Hilali's comment regarding F-15 flying and capture of Israeli Pilot. He is quite influential guy, he wouldn't have said that on national TV without some information.
Today, a poster I had been interacting also had said that Israeli was handed over to the Saudis. That ISI has recorded his interview with Abhinandan. If all this is true, Abhinandan quiet makes sense.

Gen kiyani knew about it otherwise why would he hold paf to scramble there AC’s immediately

Off course he did, he consented that Yanks can pull up the stunt. Yanks were still so terror struck that they couldn't land the second copter safely in the compound and crashed it, despite assurance that there would be no hostile fire in the theater from Pakistan. They suffered losses. PA provided support to rescue them, otherwise it was impossible for them to board the remaining chopper. The chopper is not capable to carry 24 seals,period. No wonder no one here is ready to answer my questions. They are all dancing around it instead of answering questions straight up. In the past I have posted the video of the Air Chief Marshal of PAF at the time, he told a cock and bull story to Pakistanis. The whole saga is shameful. A shame Kiyani and his other generals brought to Pakistan. Our name is sullied all around the world.
But few here on the name of nationalism keep protecting the incompetent and more importantly criminals who conspired against their own country.

 

[Dreamer.]

CoAS is not there for consultation, he takes his orders from President.
If there was no Asif Ali Zardari, AVM SL would be the air chief instead of Qamar.
Kiyani was him self on tight rope, he did his role well.

You keep referring to "AVM SL" everywhere, here and in other threads. Learn air force ranks first, AVM's don't become air chiefs. As AVM which stands for Air Vice Marshal is only a 2-star rank.

Shahid Lateef was an AM i.e. Air Marshal when he retired, that is a 3-star rank. He is not AVM SL but AM(r) Shahid Lateef.

An airforce chief would be an ACM, i.e. Air Chief Marshal and that's a 4 star rank.

 

[BATMAN]

You keep referring to "AVM SL" everywhere, here and in other threads. Learn air force ranks first, AVM's don't become air chiefs. As AVM which stands for Air Vice Marshal is only a 2-star rank.

Shahid Lateef was an AM i.e. Air Marshal when he retired, that is a 3-star rank. He is not AVM SL but AM(r) Shahid Lateef.

An airforce chief would be an ACM, i.e. Air Chief Marshal and that's a 4 star rank.

OK, you could have corrected me in one line.
Any specific reason for being so rude?

 

[batmannow]

Thanks for the reply. Lets talk about Afghanistan first.
1- I said when Americans reduced their troops strength in Afghanistan that now bad days for the Indians have started. Indians were sitting in Afghanistan running their terror camps for TTP for terror activities in Pakistan, under the protection of the Americans.
2- Once troops number is reduced, Americans would lose the capabilities to monitor and control whatever area was under their control in Afghanistan. If the cannot do it with the help of 10 times the numbers, they cannot do it with smaller numbers. It is common sense.
3- I also said, once their troops numbers down, Americans would have no other option but to leave Afghanistan, it would be very difficult for them to control Afghanistan. My predictions made over 5 years ago, are becoming true.
4- I also said that once Americans leave, what would be the future of the Indians in Afghanistan!! They have to run. If Americans with their superior numbers and technology, couldn't control Afghanistan, how India can!! No Chance for the India to even last for few weeks. This is the point made by President Trump recently when he complained in very angry tone that Indian's failed to commit troops in Afghanistan and their only contribution is a library.
Lets move to the current situation. First of all, I and everyone else thank you for your contribution and information. Saudis want transfer of technology of know how. You know what I am talking about. The things which they would never able to buy like the latest hardware they buy for billions. We leave it to that.

I think you are confirming what my hunch is, even though I am not in the know like you are, that Indians have suffered far more loses than what is revealed until now. All the indications are pointing to it. I am convinced I am right. If you say that Israeli is or was in custody of PAF/ISI then two kills are confirmed. I am sure the mig 21 going down in IOK was also Pakistan's kill, so was the Mi17. I know many here don't agree with me. But this is more realistic analysis than fratricide. Pakistan has mastery of the air on 27th Feb for few minutes. Therefore, it is more likely they shoot down the Mi17 not the Indians.
There could be more kills inside IoK and on the ground too.
As you said you cannot disclose more, which is understandable. But I think I am very close to the truth in my analysis.

Ok lets break a bit, only on your statment, do americans need thier ground troops to chcek others ?
No they dont , why they wana leave , its more about their spendings , which trump wants to use in south china sea theater ?
But I can bet you american establishment will never leave afghanistan completly,.all what they want is more of a covert role with talibans assurance .
While actual plan of that pulwama was created by ajit dooel , in the afghan american base which got attacked a week ago ?
India role was to lets pak troops come to its borders from the current posting of PA at afghan border , then americans would hve brought thier blackwaters in pakistan in cover of ISIS, then to start attacking key nuclear sites and then come into pakistan for a big rescue efforts , tht far I can tell u?
Air combat role was given to israelis who would have assisted IAF towards the targets but game was floped because our angels go that whole info , way before it all come to life , if you can belive or not but PAF was waiting and watching them closly even when they were crossing into our airspace , it was a beautiful setup hunt , and it was really the biggest surprise ?
We were looking for isreali boggy , which we marked and took down later , stop thinking tht pak can be so stupid to give those premire toys to a stupid prince , whos stupid jobs are all over in the media , do u think he can handle that ?
Right now the KSA king has slpped him many powers out of his hands because he been played by israelis with the help of a very close relative of trump ?
This prince is crazy everyone knows tht and everyone plays his weakness at thier will , do u know he wanted to get some forward combat zones in PAK for israelis to attack IRAN ?
but tht was just a cover , cause everyone knows well iran havnt got the big toys israel is just afraid of irans numeric troops power , thy are dedicated fighters , who can take hizbullha shape any given time and can rattle israels bigger plans , pakistan has denied all that ,and has tried to talked to the king who has acted swiftly thts all I can tell u , while if anyone thinks american establishment just only want to let india attack pakistan only thy live in a fools paradise whole game is for china , if india gets in a war with china then americans can get all the so called billions and trillions of india by selling them all expensive hardware which will be self destructive ?lol
But anyway biggest issue is the tag of war between trump admin and pentagon and thts the biggest reason why, this whole story got to ground , but still you never know what else pentagon has planned for us , like some other ot even bigger attack in india then india attacking pakistan and then dragging china into that , pls next time dont even ask me about conforming your ideas or opinions about this whole situation, for me its not over yet

 

[Dreamer.]

OK, you could have corrected me in one line.
Any specific reason for being so rude?

May be I took more lines than required but where was I rude? Still I'm sorry if you felt that I was.

 

[batmannow]

You keep referring to "AVM SL" everywhere, here and in other threads. Learn air force ranks first, AVM's don't become air chiefs. As AVM which stands for Air Vice Marshal is only a 2-star rank.

Shahid Lateef was an AM i.e. Air Marshal when he retired, that is a 3-star rank. He is not AVM SL but AM(r) Shahid Lateef.

An airforce chief would be an ACM, i.e. Air Chief Marshal and that's a 4 star rank.

Dont u think how a ISI former chief ,kiyani backstabbed his boss musharf ?
Do u know who was kepping OBL ?
And why musharaf been awarded as double shot players by some of american military establishment ppls , who convince musharaf to let kiyani become frist , the ISI head then the army chief ?
And how much of the headmoney of OBL went to whos pocket ?
Who took his personal benefits , other then the national intersts ?
And above all evn a air chief marshall can decide himself , what to do if a certain line be crossed no , he has to ask pakarmy chief cause in.pakistan he is the real commander of all armed forces ?
Shahid latif , just made the plan for that OBL raid , on the instructions of that commander , and may hve got his cut from the money they colllected for doing tht drama , to let obl retrun back his base and to let pentagons secret project over and out of the hands of musharafs army ?who used obl as tool to get whatevr he wanted from bush , but I was just thinking how OBL would be thinking while having a sip of a cocktail on a sunny beach somewhere in south America???lolzzz

 

[Gorgin Khan]

Ok lets break a bit, only on your statment, do americans need thier ground troops to chcek others ?
No they dont , why they wana leave , its more about their spendings , which trump wants to use in south china sea theater ?
But I can bet you american establishment will never leave afghanistan completly,.all what they want is more of a covert role with talibans assurance .
While actual plan of that pulwama was created by ajit dooel , in the afghan american base which got attacked a week ago ?
India role was to lets pak troops come to its borders from the current posting of PA at afghan border , then americans would hve brought thier blackwaters in pakistan in cover of ISIS, then to start attacking key nuclear sites and then come into pakistan for a big rescue efforts , tht far I can tell u?
Air combat role was given to israelis who would have assisted IAF towards the targets but game was floped because our angels go that whole info , way before it all come to life , if you can belive or not but PAF was waiting and watching them closly even when they were crossing into our airspace , it was a beautiful setup hunt , and it was really the biggest surprise ?
We were looking for isreali boggy , which we marked and took down later , stop thinking tht pak can be so stupid to give those premire toys to a stupid prince , whos stupid jobs are all over in the media , do u think he can handle that ?
Right now the KSA king has slpped him many powers out of his hands because he been played by israelis with the help of a very close relative of trump ?
This prince is crazy everyone knows tht and everyone plays his weakness at thier will , do u know he wanted to get some forward combat zones in PAK for israelis to attack IRAN ?
but tht was just a cover , cause everyone knows well iran havnt got the big toys israel is just afraid of irans numeric troops power , thy are dedicated fighters , who can take hizbullha shape any given time and can rattle israels bigger plans , pakistan has denied all that ,and has tried to talked to the king who has acted swiftly thts all I can tell u , while if anyone thinks american establishment just only want to let india attack pakistan only thy live in a fools paradise whole game is for china , if india gets in a war with china then americans can get all the so called billions and trillions of india by selling them all expensive hardware which will be self destructive ?lol
But anyway biggest issue is the tag of war between trump admin and pentagon and thts the biggest reason why, this whole story got to ground , but still you never know what else pentagon has planned for us , like some other ot even bigger attack in india then india attacking pakistan and then dragging china into that , pls next time dont even ask me about conforming your ideas or opinions about this whole situation, for me its not over yet

Very good story .

What you are trying to represent is that americans know about all the nuclear asset locations of pakistan. Do you think our nuclear assets are in open air and no one is defending them?

if no ! then Black water is private security organisation. Without a full fledged 100% invasion and capture it will be impossible to de-arm pakistan, unless someone from inside does not sell us out. Its not a joke.What you are saying is very well cooked up stuff in your mind and then served with a lot of garnish to support your other statements.