The Reason Why America's F-35 Would Crush China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in Battle

[Hellfire]

@gambit

I find it strange that a guy of your maturity, knowledege and intelligence keeps trying to prove American superiority.

Why?

Why don't you accept that you are not and be done with it? It is China all the way. Afterall, the best brains and talent don't dream of making it to US, irrespective of nation of origin or religious beliefs. Then the fact also remains that like the Hollywood movies and Western Sitcoms, all Americans are either into Star Wars as a way of life (even Modi did it) or in to ET.

Plus while Chinese have been making technological leaps, you have been sitting on your *** and doing nothing.

Now please accept all this and move on.

Tag people like me who are naive enough to accept that every nation on this earth is atleast a decade behind US in tech and R&D and teach us.

My humble request.

In the pass American can claim to crush Chinese airforce because their aircrafts were one or two generation ahead of China, but nowadays, China is playing the catchup with our J-20 to at least reach the same generation, we might still lag behind US but US will not have the flawless victory and if Chine do more effort to find other technology to nullify US aviation supremacy then US's future in Asia will be over.

That is assuming that US is sitting and twiddling its thumbs, right?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

That is assuming that US is sitting and twiddling its thumbs, right?

No I don't assume anything, that why I consider it as race and in a race both will have to run, the fast one will prevail. As long as China don't give up as we did on Olympic, we will have chance to score over US.

 

[terranMarine]

No I don't assume anything, that why I consider it as race and in a race both will have to run, the fast one will prevail. As long as China don't give up as we did on Olympic, we will have chance to score over US.

The race will never end they take over us, we take over them .... enjoy this behind the scene is entertaining.

 

[Hellfire]

No I don't assume anything, that why I consider it as race and in a race both will have to run, the fast one will prevail. As long as China don't give up as we did on Olympic, we will have chance to score over US.

Precisely. In forseeable future, notwithstanding the progress made by China, US will continue to outpace and outperform. The fact that it remains the most preferred destination for the brightest from world over allows it an access to best in terms of human resources as also renders a versatility to the same.

Additionally, the cost of technology development, from R&D to actual employment is significantly lower in terms of capital expenditure as also in terms of manhours being used simply because of an excellent network of 'partners' and 'allies' who share the commonality of feeling 'threatened' by China; who may be developing technology in tandem/concomitantly.

You, today, are in the same position as USSR in terms of global alignment and relationships, increasingly getting isolated as your growth coupled to your territorial claims from centuries ago threaten the smaller states who are your neighbours.

You are by no means isolated or lacking in the capability or human resources yourself, merely time and costs will be greater in your case, hence relegating you to a position wherein you will have to play catch up

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

And yet neither you nor the PDF Chinese have proved me wrong. I can tell you understood not one word I posted.
I challenge you to take ANY part of your own link and debate like a rational person.
But we can begins here...

I say that this paragraph proves me correct: that there is no such thing as a 'passive' radar.

I predict that you, just like the PDF Chinese, will chickenshit out of this challenge.
Until you debate on what is a 'passive' radar, we can put this off.

But I will give you a hint: Low radar observability is an 'asymmetrical advantage'.

Thanks a lot for keeping me ENTERTAINED.

In the past few days or week, you have written enough for me and others to assess how much you truly UNDERSTAND about the subject. There is hardly any need for anyone here to accept your childish gesture as

1. you have not been able demonstrate your level of knowledge of superiority you boast aboout.

2. truly ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

Take this for instant. "Low radar observability" is an asymmetrical advantage is definitely NOT the answer I or rather we are waiting to hear from you but is sufficient to show us how much you know about this subject among others.

I have posted evidences of the existence of such products as well as projects and truly even the pentagon is quietly admitting that the invisible cloaks of their stealthy F-22 or F-35 is already VISIBLE to the Chinese Military or probably other militaries hence your so-called "low radar observability" can only be applied to conventional radar systems used by the USAF.

Drop you a hint on this subject. The Quantum Telecommunication satellite system to be launched this month or so will be part of "China's own Asymmetrical Advantages" over USA.

So folks here are right. It is TIME to conclude this useless discussion with you.

What more can I say about Gambit and his boastful ways, maybe this image above epitomized it all?

 

[gambit]

Thanks a lot for keeping me ENTERTAINED.

Same to you.

In the past few days or week, you have written enough for me and others to assess how much you truly UNDERSTAND about the subject. There is hardly any need for anyone here to accept your childish gesture as

1. you have not been able demonstrate your level of knowledge of superiority you boast aboout.

Because YOU keep running away.

I asked YOU to show me what you know of what is 'passive' radar. All you could do was post news articles. I am not interested in news articles. Show me where YOU are correct. I even used your own source to challenge you. All I see from you is chickenshit actions.

Again...YOUR own source...

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/radar-detects-stealth-aircraft

The system Cassidian proposes, however, wouldn't be fooled by standard stealth cloaking techniques because it takes advantage of a range of signals which surround us constantly. There's no need to fire out signals and look for their reflections -- instead, the detector system looks at a host of signals floating in the atmosphere already (like aforementioned radio and mobile phone signals) and looks for how they're blocked or altered by having to pass through or around objects. Triangulating several different sources can build up a picture of a landscape or airspace, with stealth planes and ships just as visible as everything else.

I say that the above paragraph prove me correct: That there is no such thing as a 'passive' radar.

The article even put the words 'passive radar' in quotes in the title. Do you know why ? Can you even guess why ?

It is telling to smart readers that I used your own source, and that you keep running away from my challenge to you. They can see that you do not understand your own sources. All you can do is grab on to certain words that appeals to your most shallow understanding of this technical issue and thinks that you have a 'Gotcha' on me.

Merrill Skolnik, editor-in-chief of the standard Radar Handbook, is what I stand upon to challenge you. All radar engineers have his books in their shelves. Mr. Skolnik essentially taught what I used to challenged you. In the book Advances In Bistatic Radar, the authors wrote: 'The term passive is somewhat of a misnomer...' indicating the word 'passive' is misleading. Why is it misleading ? Because there is a large element of UNTRUTH in it.

I have the backing of the field's technical giants. What do you have ? Sorry, but news articles do not count.

2. truly ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

You got that right. Your ignorance and cowardice is enough for all to see.

Take this for instant. "Low radar observability" is an asymmetrical advantage is definitely NOT the answer I or rather we are waiting to hear from you but is sufficient to show us how much you know about this subject among others.

Not the answer you like, eh ? Tough shit, kid. This is an adult playground. You want to hear the F-22 is no good against 'passive radars' ? Go talk to the Chinese who specializes in 'Chinese physics'.

I have posted evidences of the existence of such products as well as projects and truly even the pentagon is quietly admitting that the invisible cloaks of their stealthy F-22 or F-35 is already VISIBLE to the Chinese Military or probably other militaries hence your so-called "low radar observability" can only be applied to conventional radar systems used by the USAF.

You have posted only news articles and I have used it to challenge you.

What more can I say about Gambit and his boastful ways, maybe this image above epitomized it all?

There is nothing you can say about me when you guys cannot even meet my challenge to you...

https://defence.pk/threads/chinese-j-15-aircraft-carrier-based-aircraft.110256/page-77#post-8532076

Not a single PDF Chinese came to defend their fighter when they are so eager to criticize others, and do it from ignorance, just like what you are doing now.

Let me know when you are ready to play for real. Take one issue at a time. Since YOU were the one who brought on this 'passive' radar, stick to that.

You just do not like of being proved wrong ON THE TECHNICAL MERITS. Simple as that. All you have is an emotional investment in your arguments while I have the laws of physics.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Because YOU keep running away.

I asked YOU to show me what you know of what is 'passive' radar. All you could do was post news articles. I am not interested in news articles. Show me where YOU are correct. I even used your own source to challenge you. All I see from you is chickenshit actions.

If I ran away you would not be so busy composing more GARBAGE replies in here. We are still not convinced nor impressed! Another thing unlike you, We are NOT a troll meaning a FULL TIME TROLL like you hence you have to be patience and wait for my response only when I have the time to be amused or entertained by motley like you in here.

Your superficial understanding of radar system FAILED to convince anybody in here based on the responses to you.

LOL This is for certain:
The Chinese Passive Radar Systems already deployed and are norm in the defense structure hence the question of whether Passive Radar system exists or works or not is water under the bridge.

You are NOT a radar expert like China's Wu ManQing hence your challenge to debate this based on your ZERO knowledge is amusing and laughable to me.

While experts like Senior Research fellows at Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a Moscow-based think tank commented that China's Passive Radar Systems e.g. DWL002′s capabilities are not being exaggerated and will pose serious threats to stealth platforms. Its ability to track aircraft without any notifications to enemies pilots that they have been detected by radar is frightening.

Hence when Chinese sources claimed that their Passive Radar will render systems like the advanced F-22 fighter and the upcoming F-35 “obsolete” — No one in their right frame of mind will ever be cast any doubt or skepticism for sure.

I doubt you even understand why I post the image of Humpty Dumpty for you and its intended message for you.

Bye Bye. So whatever your silly childish responses may be, I can be rest assured that all like the previous and similar posting, they will have no substance. At this rate I am not surprised at all in the future, you may even claimed to have piloted the F-22 or B2 bomber. Hahaha

 

[gambit]

If I ran away you would not be so busy composing more GARBAGE replies in here.

But you have been running away.

I posted your own source. I used a paragraph to say that paragraph proved I am correct. You have yet to meet that challenge by debating in a rational manner.

So here it is again...

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/radar-detects-stealth-aircraft

The system Cassidian proposes, however, wouldn't be fooled by standard stealth cloaking techniques because it takes advantage of a range of signals which surround us constantly. There's no need to fire out signals and look for their reflections -- instead, the detector system looks at a host of signals floating in the atmosphere already (like aforementioned radio and mobile phone signals) and looks for how they're blocked or altered by having to pass through or around objects. Triangulating several different sources can build up a picture of a landscape or airspace, with stealth planes and ships just as visible as everything else.

I picked a specific paragraph whereas you understood nothing of it.

I say: There is no such thing as a 'passive' radar. And there are well known experts in the field to back me up.

Let me know when you are ready to act like an adult.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

But you have been running away.

I posted your own source. I used a paragraph to say that paragraph proved I am correct. You have yet to meet that challenge by debating in a rational manner.

So here it is again...

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/radar-detects-stealth-aircraft

I picked a specific paragraph whereas you understood nothing of it.

I say: There is no such thing as a 'passive' radar. And there are well known experts in the field to back me up.

Let me know when you are ready to act like an adult.

I post that article in order for you to prove me wrong, didn't I tell you that. But that is what the Wests choose to believe but then why is China offering its Anti-stealth Passive Radar system if they do not works. It defies logic!

Can't help you there. You can continue to believe in what you choose to believe after all it is just your own delusional disorder e.g. the world is flat and who can change your mind about that.

Being immature and childish is part of your symptoms!

Bye Bye. Still have NO substance in your posting.

 

[gambit]

I post that article in order for you to prove me wrong,

And I have no problems debating in an adult manner. Let me know when you are ready.

 

[Sine Nomine]

@gambit is that guy talking about kolchuga sensor type of thing.

 

[gambit]

@gambit is that guy talking about kolchuga sensor type of thing.

Yes, I do know about the Kolchuga system. It is not a solution against 'stealth'. The system is large and imprecise.

Here is the deal about using the bi-static solution...

Imagine each of those receiver stations is a Kolchuga station.

What happens to the entire network if we destroy the power station to the city ? Or that we damaged the transmitting ability of the transmitter itself ? What good will those Kolchuga stations be ? So while the Kolchuga stations moves and struggles to coordinate themselves, we fly past and do whatever we want ?

This is why Cappy does not understand why the concept of a 'passive' radar does not exist. It cannot exist.

Radar detection is a two-parts process: Transmit and Receive.

Without one, you cannot have radar. If I put a Kolchuga in the middle of the Sahara Desert and put a 747 in front of the station, it would not detect the airliner at all. Why ? Because the transmit part of the process is not there. We can see the 747 with our human eyes, but the Kolchuga is effectively blind. That is why at the conceptual level, there is no such thing as a 'passive' radar. You can have a passive receiver station. But not a 'passive' radar.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Yes, I do know about the Kolchuga system. It is not a solution against 'stealth'. The system is large and imprecise.

Here is the deal about using the bi-static solution...

Imagine each of those receiver stations is a Kolchuga station.

What happens to the entire network if we destroy the power station to the city ? Or that we damaged the transmitting ability of the transmitter itself ? What good will those Kolchuga stations be ? So while the Kolchuga stations moves and struggles to coordinate themselves, we fly past and do whatever we want ?

This is why Cappy does not understand why the concept of a 'passive' radar does not exist. It cannot exist.

Radar detection is a two-parts process: Transmit and Receive.

Without one, you cannot have radar. If I put a Kolchuga in the middle of the Sahara Desert and put a 747 in front of the station, it would not detect the airliner at all. Why ? Because the transmit part of the process is not there. We can see the 747 with our human eyes, but the Kolchuga is effectively blind. That is why at the conceptual level, there is no such thing as a 'passive' radar. You can have a passive receiver station. But not a 'passive' radar.

Also kolchuga is much like an ECM system,those passive sensors are only good at making guess,at all depends upon fighters how much energy it transmits and F22,35 b2 all kind of signatures have been well masked with background.Only left one is heat signature which can be detected by IRST that too is only fruitful for a opponent of same Generation becuse even if it is detected by fighters like Su-27 series,then still they will have to get close enough to acquire a radar lock which is not possible for 4 gen fighters because they will be shot during target acquisition process.
Man what's your thought about VERA-E the Czech system

 

[BoQ77]

The China radar system he mentioned based on Kolchuga, after they failed to buy VERA.
While Vietnam has both VERA and KOLCHUGA , and developed a domestic system based on them. They are early warning systems of air threat.

So according to China logic, J-20 can't hide from Vietnam radar system.

Vietnam

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Precisely. In forseeable future, notwithstanding the progress made by China, US will continue to outpace and outperform. The fact that it remains the most preferred destination for the brightest from world over allows it an access to best in terms of human resources as also renders a versatility to the same.

Additionally, the cost of technology development, from R&D to actual employment is significantly lower in terms of capital expenditure as also in terms of manhours being used simply because of an excellent network of 'partners' and 'allies' who share the commonality of feeling 'threatened' by China; who may be developing technology in tandem/concomitantly.

You, today, are in the same position as USSR in terms of global alignment and relationships, increasingly getting isolated as your growth coupled to your territorial claims from centuries ago threaten the smaller states who are your neighbours.

You are by no means isolated or lacking in the capability or human resources yourself, merely time and costs will be greater in your case, hence relegating you to a position wherein you will have to play catch up

Are you kidding me? US today depend more on Immigrant engineers and Scientist, most Americans are just a big fat lazy people sit and do nothing...US is just in desperation and use money to attract foreign talented people, you really think there is a future for such nation that is dependent on immigrant for their scientific progress? and the worst nightmare if these people steal US patent or secret and bring back to their native land .
Contrary to US, China is filled a great pool of talented engineer and scientists purely Chinese, we don't depend on immigrant for our success, every Chinese give the sweat and blood for the pride of the nation beside of been get pay, even we're still behind US behid, with our rate of development, I don't have worry for China's future.