The Rafale Factor and Options for the PAF

[Raj-Hindustani]

EF not ET

Thank you... Yes, EF ....

 

[Viper27]

I diubt china will allow it...
Why has PAF politically failed to get the V upgrades is beyond me or used f16c/d

Politics is not the issue. Neither does the Trump admin have a problem if we pay for it. We want the CSF/Aid money to go into the purchase and thats where things are stuck at the moment. Remember that should Pakistan opt for the V upgrade they could likely be upgraded at the South Carolina facility which is the constituency of Senator Lindsay Graham who happens to be very close to Trump and Pakistan. Lets wait and see.

 

[ziaulislam]

Politics is not the issue. Neither does the Trump admin have a problem if we pay for it. We want the CSF/Aid money to go into the purchase and thats where things are stuck at the moment. Remember that should Pakistan opt for the V upgrade they could likely be upgraded at the South Carolina facility which is the constituency of Senator Lindsay Graham who happens to be very close to Trump and Pakistan. Lets wait and see.

Your foreign minister on paper states theat jordan f16s were blocked
Not difficult to infere that all used f16s were blocked

New f16 arent cheap and arent worth it..you can get typhoon or rafale at that cost

So its a poltical failure that establishment couldn't convince USA on this topic when USA has been offering used aircrafts to other european and even far east allies

On V uograde its difficult to say whether its on offer..i would say may be..but without f16/c/d i doubt PAF wil opt for such a big investment atleast for now untill it becomes cheaper

F31 is meant for export.

I meant integration of west equipment in it.
Chinese are getting ify about mixing and mating their stuff like other countries are

 

[ARMalik]

A few years ago you guys were honking on about MKIs - like there was nothing invented like the wondrous MKIs. And now after being shot out of the sky like flies, you are guys now have the majestic Rafales to talk about - like there is nothing out there like Rafales. You guys have very Short memories.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thunder Block 1/2 jammed your Mirages Radars

No, it wasnt

Thunder Block 3

Sorry, it is not comparable to even Su 30 mki.

HAL Tejas MK1a is comparable to Thunder Block 3, both are almost same level (Technically)

its not about comparability but its about develop tactics against MKI and we already did it through various Pak-China exercises, putting JF-17 against Chinese J-11B/Su-30MKK

If we have to in fancy way... Then I accept jf 17 is better than rafale and even f35...

PAF does not need j31, j10 or su 35...

You guys always quoted that that Tejas/LCA better than F-22 in past, we didn't claim that

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

the detonated amraam tube u guys displayed shows it hit something
second iaf jet inside iok

It hit a chaff cloud.

Mitage and Su30 pulled back as since SOP stated no engagement if enemy has 6 times more aircraft than you

 

[Khanivore]

Never happened.
Repeating falsehoods won't make it the truth.

The fact that IAF backed off so quickly says a lot. It speaks volumes.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

its not about comparability but its about develop tactics against MKI and we already did it through various Pak-China exercises, putting JF-17 against Chinese J-11B/Su-30MKK

You guys always quoted that that Tejas/LCA better than F-22 in past, we didn't claim that

its not about comparability but its about develop tactics against MKI and we already did it through various Pak-China exercises, putting JF-17 against Chinese J-11B/Su-30MKK..

Even Mi21 Bison also pitched against USAF f16s during the training exercises. But it does not give a full proof solution against more advanced fighters.

You guys always quoted that that Tejas/LCA better than F-22 in past, we didn't claim that

No, We never! we always say that it is replacement of Mig 21 fighter. It is more than capable after Su 30mki, Rafale, Mirage 2000 (Upgraded), and Mig 29 (Upgraded)... and future aircraft.

Hal tejas will not be alone to face any threat..... It will be mixture for all planes (Hal tejas, Su 30 mki, Mig 29 etc..) to face any threats.

 

[Ultima Thule]

its not about comparability but its about develop tactics against MKI and we already did it through various Pak-China exercises, putting JF-17 against Chinese J-11B/Su-30MKK..

Even Mi21 Bison also pitched against USAF f16s during the training exercises. But it does not give a full proof solution against more advanced fighters.

You guys always quoted that that Tejas/LCA better than F-22 in past, we didn't claim that

No, We never! we always say that it is replacement of Mig 21 fighter. It is more than capable after Su 30mki, Rafale, Mirage 2000 (Upgraded), and Mig 29 (Upgraded)... and future aircraft.

Hal tejas will not be alone to face any threat..... It will be mixture for all planes (Hal tejas, Su 30 mki, Mig 29 etc..) to face any threats.

I m not saying but your countrymen saying this tejas is better than f-22 here on PDF and jf17 is not coming alone to face MKI RAFALE m-2000 mig-29 etc etc

 

[Basel]

Rafale will be never alone...

PAF is having only have one decent fighter F 16 to threat Indian Su30mki and Rafale ....

Need to go for ET or j10 at the earliest...

Thank you for underestimating JFT, that will be more capable then our F-16 as whole fleet will be upgraded to be on par of block-3.

I m not saying but your countrymen saying this tejas is better than f-22 here on PDF and jf17 is not coming alone to face MKI RAFALE m-2000 mig-29 etc etc

Indians never accept their mistakes, bad language or behavior, you can see their real fave on Indian forums like Bharat Rakshak or Defence Forum India, so don't hit your head with brick wall.

 

[StormBreaker]

Here are some more realistic local ways to deal with the Rafale:

Near term:
1. Get (buy or build at home) LRSAMs. Ingressing Rafales will then have to contend with the PAF and simultaneously with a threat from below.
2. Enhanced EW platforms
3. UCAVs, cheap and plentiful to accompany JF-17s and F-16s. As additional BVR launch platforms that can get closer and launch PL-15s.

Guys @Zarvan @Syed Hammad Ahmed @Maxpane , just get over with this Rafale hype.

Countering JUST 36 Rafales is quite easy with our current resources as well. Call it a threat but not an unavoidable threat.

S-400 gives advantage to india in terms of increasing their radar coverage and to keep an eye on our jets as well as deny us airspace much further inside Pakistan. To counter this, we do the same, Get an enhanced version of HQ-9 (not necessary to match the range of S-400, Indian S-400 might have detection range of around 600KM but what matters is the tracking range which won’t be more than 350km by any chance. We can have a multi layered umbrella made up of HQ-9 (280+KM) and HQ-16 (70-80KM) close to the border to deny indian Rafales or MKIs entering our airspace and to keep our Command And Control updated with the live movements inside India. This will keep their rafales at bay and will prevent the BVR engagements of Block 3 and Rafale.

Now, the important thing to keep in mind is that we are a defensive force, our top priority is denial of airspace followed by providing cover to our fighters.

In the case of offense, The Priority must be SEAD ops by our AWACS and DEAD by either Block 3 or Mirages but i would rather keep J-16 or FC-31 for this unique role, i wish PAF does look into this. J-16 is what you can ACTUALLY call a “Mini-Awacs” while FC-31 can avoid S-400 for most part of flight INSIDE INDIAN AIRSPACE.

Lately, the issue is not single, but there are 2 separate issues and we always mix them up.

Issue 1 - S-400, Issue 2 - Rafale

Issue 1 is an actual issue, something that can’t be avoided but can be primarily as well as secondarily countered, Primarily through SEAD DEAD ops and Secondarily by posing a similar threat to India in the form of HQ-9 or the new anti stealth radar that was spotted not too long ago.

Now In short, Priorities (Highest(top) to lowest(bottom))

• JF-17 Block 3 (>100)
• HQ-9B+HQ-16 Combo
• Procure at least 3 more AWACS and consider getting some mini awacs from China as well if they are worthy enough
• J-16/FC-31 (36 at most) for DEAD ops escorted by AWACS and a second wave of Thunders and F-16s
• Lastly, F-16 upgrades and possible further procurements.

All the above mentioned points should be implemented before 2026, AZM can carry forward till 2032-35

Rumour is that FC-31 v3 will fly very soon, like in a month or so. We are going to Have IDEAS 2020 as well as Zhuhai AirShow 2020, We can expect at least some development in this regard. I bet PAF despite going towards AZM, has eyes fixed on FC-31, because you don’t make something perfectly until you own something of its class for some time, so we might actually see some J-31s in PAF colors. If the flight goes fine, there might be another prototype of v3 by the end of this year or by next year, followed by the possible Low Rate Initial Productions if PLAAN/PLAN puts forward a requirement. PLAN might order it if this is the very much touted J-35 (FC-31 v3), so guys, Keep calm, Future is Good inshaAllah.

@Mangus Ortus Novem @Basel @Trailer23 @Hodor @ziaulislam @fatman17 @seven0seven @FuturePAF @MastanKhan @The Eagle @Windjammer @Signalian @aliyusuf @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Maxpane]

Better just delete it, even though not necessary but if people start talking about these things very frequently, change of plans seem to become inevitable.

ok am going to delete ot

 

[StormBreaker]

Oh, and one more important point. And this is not keeping Rafale in mind but whole IAF.

We should just start with our own low cost low and medium range Air Defence systems, saturate our lands Very heavily with these systems, layer by layer that it would be almost impossible for any Indian CMs or Jets to achieve their goals inside Pakistan.

If i were a dictator, this is what i would have done to shield my cities from nukes. Cluster of Low Range Air defence systems spread throughout Sindh and Punjab as well as Northern areas, Medium AD systems spread along the coast and the IB and LOC while Long range systems to intercept incoming BMs and CMs in distances. Costly but highly effective solution. All of this should cost around $28-32Bn in the long term but this investment would be something that you won’t regret ever.

ok am going to delete ot

As well as this post also, and don’t further quote me otherwise the cycle goes on infinity

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

HQ-16 (125KM)

HQ 16B has max range of 70km. What we have is HQ 16A( LY 80) with max range of 40km

 

[Wood]

Thunder Block 1/2 jammed your Mirages Radars

Where has this been reported?