The Rafale Factor and Options for the PAF

[Readerdefence]

One option is to the rafale bases by using proxies ISI missions....

Hi johnwick forget about proxies as opponents can do the same and don’t take me wrong they have more budget to use this kind of bad tactics beside this with the proxies you can eliminate the threat fully there is a chance some still live by
Thank you

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Only the J10 is available to Pakistan and it is not interested, EFT from Italy has made official rounds between Italy and the PAF. Price is a big hurdle

The Eurofighters that are on sale at the moment are all Tranche-1 with very limited capability.
Basically all of the Tranche-1 are for sale, and noone is buying.
The cost to upgrade a Tranche-1 to Tranche-2 is about the same as cost to buy a Tranche-2, so noone is doing that either.
Tranche-1 Eurofighters are simply a dead end.

 

[StormBreaker]

The Eurofighters that are on sale at the moment are all Tranche-1 with very limited capability.
Basically all of the Tranche-1 are for sale, and noone is buying.
The cost to upgrade a Tranche-1 to Tranche-2 is about the same as cost to buy a Tranche-2, so noone is doing that either.
Tranche-1 Eurofighters are simply a dead end.

How much life is left in those airframes on average ?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

How much life is left in those airframes on average ?

The problem is that the electronics is old, and noone is spending any significant money on development of capabilities. All new stuff beeing developed for Tranche-2 and 3 are incompatible with Tranche-1.
You would not be able to add any weapons, or any new things, because managers behind the program will not spend any effort in maintaining the software. It pays off much better to further develop Tranche 2 & 3 than to develop for Tranche-1. The electronics probably contain plenty of parts which are no longer in production, and you can get grounded permanently because of a broken transistor which cannot be replaced.
The life of the airframe is unlikely to be the cause of grounding.

 

[dbc]

The cost to upgrade a Tranche-1 to Tranche-2 is about the same as cost to buy a Tranche-2, so noone is doing that either.

Wait didn't Spain just upgrade their Tranche 1? Are you making things up again?

Getafe, 25 February 2019 – Airbus has delivered the first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter to the Spanish Air Force. The upgrade was carried out at Airbus facilities in Getafe and involved the introduction of hardware modifications which support the Operational Flight Program 02 (OFP-02) developed by the Armament and Experimental Logistics Centre (CLAEX). The upgrade developed by Airbus includes modifications that integrate Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, not least a Computer Symbol Generator, Digital Video and Voice Recorder, Laser Designator POD and Maintenance Data Panel.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pre...anche-1-eurofighter-to-spanish-air-force.html

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Wait didn't Spain just upgrade their Tranche 1? Are you making things up again?



https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pre...anche-1-eurofighter-to-spanish-air-force.html

Yep, this amounts to perhaps adding a smart phone and an Arduino to a $120M aircraft.
Meanwhile:
Tranche 1 Typhoons To Be UK Alert Force

As we talked about before, the Eurofighter Typhoon has undergone a series of important upgrades which have established it as a truly swing-rolecapable fighter aircraft. And while that functionality applies to Tranche 2 and 3 aircraft, Tranche 1 Typhoons going forward are going to be maintained specifically in an alert and homeland air defense capacity, as it would be too difficult and cost-prohibitive to upgrade them.
The UK Royal Air Force (RAF) is to field as a separate air defence force the Tranche 1 (T1) Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft that are to be retained in service beyond their original retirement date.

The 24 T1 aircraft that were extended from 2019 to the wider Typhoon out-of-service date (OSD) of 2040 in the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) of November 2015 will be formed into two distinct air defence squadrons, rather than being mixed with other T2 and T3 aircraft in other multirole units, Deputy Commander of Operations Air Marshal Greg Bagwell told reporters on 30 March.

“The issue was how to operate the Tranche 1 alongside the Tranche 2 and 3 as there is very little spares commonality between them, so it was decided that the plan [should be] for two new squadrons of Tranche 1 Typhoons,” AM Bagwell said.

©Jonathan Derden–All Rights Reserved

Given the software limitations of the T1, the RAF has decided not to try and upgrade these particular platforms with the Phase Enhancement upgrade packages that will afford the T2 and T3 platforms with the full swing-role capability set. As such, they will be used solely for air defence duties, and perhaps for adversarial air combat training for other RAF aircraft types.

“The Tranche 1s will be used purely for air defence, as an upgrade [for swing-role] will be prohibitively expensive. The two squadrons of Tranche 1 Typhoons will own the air defence role, and we are also looking at using them for ‘red air’ along with the Hawk,” AM Bagwell noted.

The UK bases its Typhoons at RAF Coningsby in England (Quick reaction Alert [QRA] South) and at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland (QRA North). It also has a detachment of four air defence aircraft permanently stationed in the Falkland Islands.

 

[NA71]

how about using JF17B3 air frames and replace all avionics /radars / armament with European one close to Tranche-2 ...will that be compatible? raise 2~3 squadrons....

Only visible option is B3....work on it ..... J10 may not be some thing like game changer....

 

[dbc]

Yep, this amounts to perhaps adding a smart phone and an Arduino to a $120M aircraft.

So when you said "noone" is upgrading earlier you meant the Royal Air Force (UK) is not upgrading.

Clearly the Spanish Air Force saw the benefit of upgrading their Tranche-1. Despite your claims of an outrageous upgrade cost of a whopping 120 M$ per aircraft.

I wonder if Spain truly paid that amount? May be we should take your word for it this time.
It's not important, seems to me you came here with an agenda to besmirch the reputation of Gripen rivals.

The cost to upgrade a Tranche-1 to Tranche-2 is about the same as cost to buy a Tranche-2, so noone is doing that either.

 

[Raider 21]

Never happened.
Repeating falsehoods won't make it the truth.

Fact is it has been an year but PAF and Pakistanis have completely failed to provide an iota of proof regarding it's Su-30 claim, not only No visual or electronics proofs were provided but they could not even find a shred of evidence through OSINT.

Even Pak analysts admit it:

https://quwa.org/2019/03/08/february-skirmish-aftermath-of-the-india-pakistan-air-battle-part-1-2/

Similarly it goes in return about an F-16 kill from a MiG-21 that was not even in the range of firing a missile towards it. Second of all, how did an AMRAAM wreckage end up in India's hands, if they claim they have shot an F-16 and got wreckage to prove it, then they'd show a part of an engine or tail subsection or something other than a missile, which very much looks like it was fired.

Most western analysts find the Indian narrative to be false.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Use of PL-15B against indian awacs.

Deployment of more units of YJ-27B anti stealth Radar across pakistan atleast 6 required.

Deploy chinese provided highly sophisticated trackers with Lazer weapons or hypersonic SAM network

Use these Stealth drones to take out S400 batteries near border on indian side

 

[StormBreaker]

Use of PL-15B against indian awacs.
View attachment 607405
Deployment of more units of YJ-27B anti stealth Radar across pakistan atleast 6 required.
View attachment 607406
Deploy chinese provided highly sophisticated trackers with Lazer weapons or hypersonic SAM network
View attachment 607408
Use these Stealth drones to take out S400 batteries near border on indian side
View attachment 607409

“At last, someone who speaks english”

That’s called utilizing resources instead of whining for more and more combat aircrafts ONLY.
Like i explained in my post, determine the threats, derive a solution that is easily available, highly effective and cost effective. Sharp Sword you mentioned here is just another way of expressing creativity, what is the range of this UCAV btw ?

And the updated version was displayed not too long ago, last year with a slimmer design and a modified wing design.

And not to forget, CH-7 also has been displayed. We already operate CH-3 in the form of Burraq, don’t know about CH-4 or CH-5 but this CH-7 is something i really am interested to know more about especially range.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So when you said "noone" is upgrading earlier you meant the Royal Air Force (UK) is not upgrading.

Clearly the Spanish Air Force saw the benefit of upgrading their Tranche-1. Despite your claims of an outrageous upgrade cost of a whopping 120 M$ per aircraft.

I wonder if Spain truly paid that amount? May be we should take your word for it this time.
It's not important, seems to me you came here with an agenda to besmirch the reputation of Gripen rivals.

How did You ever make Think Tank?
Spain will still have Tranche-1 aircrafts after the ”upgrade”
They are not upgrading to Tranche-2 or Tranche-3.

 

[dbc]

How did You ever make Think Tank?
Spain will still have Tranche-1 aircrafts after the ”upgrade”
They are not upgrading to Tranche-2 or Tranche-3.

so now Airbus is wrong and you are right...

 

[Mav3rick]

I dont think Brahmos can carry Nuclear Warhead

JF 17 Blk 3 with PL 15 should lock Rafale and fire the missile and run away as quick as possible as PL 15 has more Range

A very interesting question is, would the Thunder B3 even be able to identify, track and lock the Rafale, before the information is passed on to PL-15 for release? Ofcourse, the next part of the questions is, how effective PL-15 would actually be against Rafale if fired from a 100km's away head-on.

 

[Sulemanms202]

its not like that... rafaele has spectra which i suspect wont let put JFT BIII lock on even if it is well within its range.
lock has to come from some where else

theoretically speaking, if location of lock is independent of missile platform, even non AESA platform can track and launch missile on spectra, its not the radar in rafale that you are up against, its the spectra that you are go to go up against