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The 'poor' neighbour( old article but nice read)

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The Chinese are probably laughing their head off, watching Indians and Pakistanis fighting over our shitty infrastructure.

No, I'm not.

Maybe Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc. have good infrastructure.

However, the vast majority of Chinese people do not live in any of these top-tier cities. Go outside of the major cities, and you will see how most people really live.
 
LOL! China with a GDP per capita of $49000....?

Firstly, those are "future projections", which are worth absolutely nothing until they arrive. Secondly, that is half a century away.

Thirdly, you said it took Japan 50 years, with their population of over 100 million.

China opened up in the 1980's, so fifty years would be 2030, not 2050.

Leave it.. So you are saying Pakistan has better chance of becoming a developed country before India can, even with a lower growth rate, is that it? Well good luck with that. I am ready to bet you on that.

The projection I gave you has already proven wrong by three years. Who knows China might just have $40000 per capita by 2030.
 
asia on the whole is progressing. china,india,pakistan,sri lanka are major contributors
 
No, I'm not.

Maybe Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc. have good infrastructure.

However, the vast majority of Chinese people do not live in any of these top-tier cities. Go outside of the major cities, and you will see how most people really live.

You are being too modest mate, Chinese infrastructure pretty much shytes on our infrastructure. You guys are in a different league altogether.


One is the intersection of I285 and I85 in Atlanta, (in Pakistan??) and the next is an Expressway tollbooth in Chesapeake, Virginia (Pakistan??). :lol:

Thought so too. The other day in the Kashmir development thread, someone posted a photo of some hotel in Austria and claimed it to be some hotel in Muzzafarabad, and gullible me fell for it, until someone pointed it out. Never again!:taz:
 
Leave it.. So you are saying Pakistan has better chance of becoming a developed country before India can, even with a lower growth rate, is that it? Well good luck with that. I am ready to bet you on that.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was referring to Japan, and how it managed to become a developed economy so quickly, with growth rates of only around 5% in the 1970's onwards. I merely said that the same principle could apply to Pakistan as well, i.e. it's easier to raise GDP per capita with a smaller population.

According to the World Bank, to be classified as a "developed country", you need a GDP per capita of over $11,000.

For reference, Hong Kong has a GDP per capita of $31,591. Mainland China has a GDP per capita of $4,382. India has a GDP per capita of $1,265.

The populations are just TOO large. It will take a very, very, long time for us to become developed countries.

The consolation I suppose, is that we will still become some of the biggest economies in the world, even with a low GDP per capita. China is already 2nd biggest even with our modest average income. In terms of "overall national power", China and India will be very strong.
 
We need some kind of new "miraculous technology", in order to raise the GDP per capita levels of China and India to an acceptable standard.

Or some kind of "economic supercycle".

Ten percent growth is great for the overall economy, but it's not good enough for GDP per capita growth.

The rest of the world might get freaked out though, multiply $11,000 by a billion people... and you will have a freakishly big national economy. Even more so if the BRIC predictions are accurate, and it goes up to $40,000 or some other ridiculous number.
 
Pak member....... leave it brothers....... india is far ahead of us the nexr super power....... n the brit guy who wrote the article is a liar......

Did you even read what he wrote.. ?? Read thru the whole of it... not just one small para where he says Pakistan has better roads (as a consolation). Let me repeat the concluding paragraph of his article


Sixty years after its birth, India faces a number of serious problems - not least the growing gap between rich and poor, the criminalisation of politics, and the flourishing Maoist and Naxalite groups that have recently proliferated in the east of the country. But Pakistan's problems are on a different scale; indeed, the country finds itself at a crossroads. As Jugnu Mohsin, the publisher of the Lahore-based Friday Times, put it recently, "After a period of relative quiet, for the first time in a decade, we are back to the old question: it is not just whether Pakistan, but will Pakistan survive?" On the country's 60th birthday, the answer is by no means clear.
 
i just stoped reading when i read better roads and airports lol seriously man

This was written by William Dalrymple, years ago (in the time of Musharraf); both time and circumstances have moved on from then. It is worth reading anyway, because its not only about roads and airports; it is about visions, mindsets and attitudes also. That matters more than roads and airports in the long run.
 
Thank our forefathers for making Pakistan, those who visit india, kiss the tarmac when they get back home.

The same forefathers would cry tears of blood if they saw what you guys have made Pakistan to be today.. Where a citizen can not go out of his house without the fear of getting blown up before he comes back home.. And you feel contended posting pictures of roads to say you are in a better position. Good luck to you mate.. ;)
 
India is seen as a success story, while Pakistan is written off as a failed state and the hiding place of Osama bin Laden. What went wrong? By William Dalrymple

Amid all the hoopla surrounding the 60th anniversary of Indian independence, almost nothing has been heard from Pakistan, which turns 60 today. Nothing, that is, if you discount the low rumble of suicide bombings, the noise of automatic weapons storming the Red Mosque and the creak of slowly collapsing dictatorships.
In the world's media, never has the contrast between the two countries appeared so stark: one is widely perceived as the next great superpower; the other written off as a failed state, a world centre of Islamic radicalism, the hiding place of Osama bin Laden and the only US ally that Washington appears ready to bomb.

On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country's visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India.

Moreover, the Pakistani economy is undergoing a construction and consumer boom similar to India's, with growth rates of 7%, and what is currently the fastest-rising stock market in Asia. You can see the effects everywhere: in new shopping centres and restaurant complexes, in the hoardings for the latest laptops and iPods, in the cranes and building sites, in the endless stores selling mobile phones: in 2003 the country had fewer than three million cellphone users; today there are almost 50 million.

Mohsin Hamid, author of the Booker long-listed novel The Reluctant Fundamentalist, wrote about this change after a recent visit: having lived abroad as a banker in New York and London, he returned home to find the country unrecognisable. He was particularly struck by "the incredible new world of media that had sprung up, a world of music videos, fashion programmes, independent news networks, cross-dressing talkshow hosts, religious debates, and stock-market analysis".

I knew, of course, that the government of Pervez Musharraf had opened the media to private operators. But I had not until then realised how profoundly things had changed. Not just television, but private radio stations and newspapers have also flourished in Pakistan over the past few years. The result is an unprecedented openness. Young people are speaking and dressing differently. Views both critical and supportive of the government are voiced with breathtaking frankness in an atmosphere remarkably lacking in censorship. Public space, the common area for culture and expression that had been so circumscribed in my childhood, has now been vastly expanded. The Vagina Monologues was recently performed on stage to standing ovations.

Little of this is reported in the western press, which prefers its sterotypes simple: India-successful; Pakistan-failure. Nevertheless, despite the economic boom, there are three serious problems that Pakistan will have to sort out if it is to continue to keep up with its giant neighbour - or indeed continue as a coherent state at all.

One is the fundamental flaw in Pakistan's political system. Democracy has never thrived here, at least in part because landowning remains almost the only social base from which politicians can emerge. In general, the educated middle class - which in India seized control in 1947, emasculating the power of its landowners - is in Pakistan still largely excluded from the political process. As a result, in many of the more backward parts of Pakistan the local feudal zamindar can expect his people to vote for his chosen candidate. Such loyalty can be enforced. Many of the biggest zamindars have private prisons and most have private armies.

In such an environment, politicians tend to come to power more through deals done within Pakistan's small elite than through the will of the people.
Behind Pakistan's swings between military governments and democracy lies a surprising continuity of interests: to some extent, the industrial, military, landowning and bureaucratic elites are now all related and look after one another. The current rumours of secret negotiations going on between Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto, the exiled former prime minister, are typical of the way that the civil and military elites have shared power with relatively little recourse to the electorate.

The second major problem that the country faces is linked with the absence of real democracy, and that is the many burgeoning jihadi and Islamist groups. For 25 years, the military and Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), have been the paymasters of myriad mujahideen groups. These were intended for selective deployment first in Afghanistan and then Kashmir, where they were intended to fight proxy wars for the army, at low cost and low risk. Twenty-eight years after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, however, the results have been disastrous, filling the country with thousands of armed but now largely unemployed jihadis, millions of modern weapons, and a proliferation of militant groups.

While the military and intelligence community in Pakistan may have once believed that it could use jihadis for its own ends, the Islamists have followed their own agendas. As the recent upheavals in Islamabad have dramatically shown, they have now brought their struggle on to the streets and into the heart of the country's politics.

The third major issue facing the country is its desperate education crisis. No problem in Pakistan casts such a long shadow over its future as the abject failure of the government to educate more than a fraction of its own people: at the moment, a mere 1.8% of Pakistan's GDP is spent on government schools. The statistics are dire: 15% of these government schools are without a proper building; 52% without a boundary wall; 71% without electricity.

This was graphically confirmed by a survey conducted two years ago by the former Pakistan cricket captain turned politician, Imran Khan, in his own constituency of Mianwali. His research showed that 20% of government schools supposed to be functioning in his constituency did not exist at all, a quarter had no teachers and 70% were closed. No school had more than half of the teachers it was meant to have. Of those that were just about functioning, many had children of all grades crammed into a single room, often sitting on the floor in the absence of desks.

This education gap is the most striking way in which Pakistan is lagging behind India: in India, 65% of the population is literate and the number rises every year: only last year, the Indian education system received a substantial boost of state funds.

But in Pakistan, the literacy figure is under half (it is currently 49%) and falling: instead of investing in education, Musharraf's military government is spending money on a cripplingly expensive fleet of American F-16s for its air force. As a result, out of 162 million Pakistanis, 83 million adults of 15 years and above are illiterate. Among women the problem is worse still: 65% of all female adults are illiterate. As the population rockets, the problem gets worse.

The virtual collapse of government schooling has meant that many of the country's poorest people have no option but to place their children in the madrasa system, where they are guaranteed an ultra-conservative but free education, often subsidised by religious endowments provided by the Wahhabi Saudis.

Altogether there are now an estimated 800,000 to one million students enrolled in Pakistan's madrasas. Though the link between the madrasas and al-Qaida is often exaggerated, it is true that madrasa students have been closely involved in the rise of the Taliban and the growth of sectarian violence; it is also true that the education provided by many madrasas is often wholly inadequate to equip children for modern life in a civil society.

Sixty years after its birth, India faces a number of serious problems - not least the growing gap between rich and poor, the criminalisation of politics, and the flourishing Maoist and Naxalite groups that have recently proliferated in the east of the country. But Pakistan's problems are on a different scale; indeed, the country finds itself at a crossroads. As Jugnu Mohsin, the publisher of the Lahore-based Friday Times, put it recently, "After a period of relative quiet, for the first time in a decade, we are back to the old question: it is not just whether Pakistan, but will Pakistan survive?" On the country's 60th birthday, the answer is by no means clear.

William Dalrymple's new book, The Last Mughal: The Fall of a Dynasty, published by Bloomsbury, has just been awarded the Duff Cooper prize for history

I think if we try to understand the context of the author ..he is correct and he is presenting one part of India in his statement. It is like comparison of negative part of India to something positive aspect of Pakistan...And as an Indian....i should say that yes the fact is in couple of few cases, Pakistan has better things than India...and we have to accept it...
 
India is super power that should be evident from lifestyle and living standard of peoples live in India. An estimated third of the world’s poor live in the fourth largest economy in the world. What is the use of becoming world fourth largest economy when 41.6% Indian Population living under $1.25 a day compare to fail state Pakistan where this ratio is almost half 22.6%.

So failed state Pakistan is better to cater the basic needs of its peoples than world fourth largest economy...again detail comparison between world super power india and failed state Pakistan has been made in previous post

Not really mate.. Using 2005 data is not a real comparison. and btw one of the basic needs is also protection from being killed by terrorists at their whim. Ever wonder where Pakistan figures on that count..??
 
One is the intersection of I285 and I85 in Atlanta, (in Pakistan??) and the next is an Expressway tollbooth in Chesapeake, Virginia (Pakistan??). :lol:

Thats another thing Pakistanis can blame USA and CIA for apart from terrorism in Pakistan... Stealing Pakistani highways and taking them to the USA.. :rofl:
 
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was referring to Japan, and how it managed to become a developed economy so quickly, with growth rates of only around 5% in the 1970's onwards. I merely said that the same principle could apply to Pakistan as well, i.e. it's easier to raise GDP per capita with a smaller population.

According to the World Bank, to be classified as a "developed country", you need a GDP per capita of over $11,000.

For reference, Hong Kong has a GDP per capita of $31,591. Mainland China has a GDP per capita of $4,382. India has a GDP per capita of $1,265.

The populations are just TOO large. It will take a very, very, long time for us to become developed countries.

The consolation I suppose, is that we will still become some of the biggest economies in the world, even with a low GDP per capita. China is already 2nd biggest even with our modest average income. In terms of "overall national power", China and India will be very strong.

If we do not make any mistakes for 8 more years, we will be a developed nation. Crack down on corruption, capital flight (linked with corruption), income inequality, pollution and crime. Increase subsidies for the poor, investments in technology, and necessary political reforms which means kicking out people like Xi Jinping, Bo Xilai, Jiang Zemin's son forgot his name and other 太子党/官二代.

Just no more mistakes for 8 years.

In addition, 11000 x 1 billion is still nothing. The US will still have a 50% larger economy.

There is no resource limit on development. The world's resources are still plenty, as long as we suppress spending by other countries. Unfortunately, Africans and Arabs are going to be the sacrificial lambs for East and South Asia's development.
 
The Chinese are probably laughing their head off, watching Indians and Pakistanis fighting over our shitty infrastructure.

As far as the original article goes, it really is outdated. Believe it or not a lot has changed in these past 5 years since that article was written. For example, airports in India, since the the 14th of August 2007(when the article was written) these are the new airports/terminals that have been inaugurated in India.

1. Rajiv Gandhi International Airport, Hyderabad (inaugurated March, 2008)


2. Bengaluru International Airport (inaugurated May, 2008)

3551944468290cfacfdcb.jpg


3. Madurai International Airport (inaugurated October, 2010)

11012011022.jpg


4. Trivandrum International Airport (inaugurated 2011)

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5. Ahmedabad Interantional Airport (inaugurated July 2010)

Ahmedabad-Airport-1.jpg


6. Delhi International Airport T3( inaugurated September 2010)

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7. Mumbai International Airport (Ongoing Project)


8.Kolkatta Interantional Airport (Ongoing Project)

9. Chennai International Airport (Ongoing Project).

Seriously there are too many to list here, basically this,

Aviation and Airports - SkyscraperCity

Same with roads and other infrastructure. India might have lagged behind Pakistan in the past, but we are pulling ahead now.

Forget those man look at new Varanasi airport!! :woot: I recently visited Varanasi.

newairterminalvaranasi.jpg



Cochin airport is very beautiful. New Lucknow airport under construction is cool.
 
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