The PAF is set to receive a batch of Egyptian Air Force Mirage-Vs

[volatile]

This is no irony here. You just cant replace an ol' Hilux pickup with a new Corolla. Both serve their own purposes. One country might be exporting one of them but still importing the other, there stand no contradictions.

US and Europe for instance though producing Boeings and Airbuses respectively still import the Embraers and Bombardiers from Brazil and Canada when they have no similar product in their own portfolio. It doesnt signal any irony on their part.

JF-17 and Mirages stand to serve two different purposes. JF-17 cant do Mirages' job as good and vice versa.

Egypt if it ever decides to buy the JF-17 wouldnt do it to replace its mirages, it would rather do it to fill the gap of a light multirole fighter to build up numbers quickly and cost effectively.

Oh bhai when you dont know any thing dont put your nose in any matter ,please read first then comment .JF17 was designed keeping in mind replacing the A5s,F7s and Mirages

The PAC JF-17 Thunder (Urdu: جے ایف-١٧ گرج‎), or CAC FC-1 Xiaolong (pinyin: Xiāo Lóng; lit.: 'Fierce Dragon'), is a lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft developed jointly by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China. It was designed to replace the A-5C, F-7P/PG, Mirage III, and Mirage V combat aircraft in the Pakistan Air Force.

 

[Shah_Deu]

Oh bhai when you dont know any thing dont put your nose in any matter ,please read first then comment .JF17 was designed keeping in mind replacing the A5s,F7s and Mirages

The PAC JF-17 Thunder (Urdu: جے ایف-١٧ گرج‎), or CAC FC-1 Xiaolong (pinyin: Xiāo Lóng; lit.: 'Fierce Dragon'), is a lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft developed jointly by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China. It was designed to replace the A-5C, F-7P/PG, Mirage III, and Mirage V combat aircraft in the Pakistan Air Force.

Brother, no need to flare up, my point was just that the JF-17 is still not mature enough to replace the Mirages in strike role on 1:1 basis. JF-17 can perform the task of Mirages but still not as good as the Mirages themselves. And if the Horus news is true, why would PAF still want to buy used Mirages given it already has 100+ JF-17s in inventory?

JF-17 will continue to evolve and hopefully will grow up to be much more stronger and reliable in strike role as well, but Mirages still remain the preferred platforms for PAF in strike role. 27.02 was just a validation of that. Peace!

 

[Ultima Thule]

Strike aircraft need excellent jammers and ew suites and highly advanced navigation and attack radars in order to penetrate increasingly sophisticated air defences.

If you intend to soldier on for decade and this is your primary strike platform then it will need to survive
Tiered s400 and Barak 8 and Akash defence. Then avoid detetection by 5 different bvr platforms from.rafale mki mig29upg tejas and mirage2000.

That's why Egypt which deploys same fighters as India ie Rafale mirage and mig29 scrapped the mirage 5 . It's limitations are to great to influence a modern full.scale war

you know WHAT IS STAND OFF LAUNCHER, IT WOULD LAUNCH RAAD -1/2 WELL OUTSIDE THE RANGE OF YOUR AIR DEFENSE/INTERCEPTORS AND RAAD-1/2 STILL ABLE REACH DEEP INSIDE INDIA

 

[The Eagle]

Strike aircraft need excellent jammers and ew suites and highly advanced navigation and attack radars in order to penetrate increasingly sophisticated air defences.

If you intend to soldier on for decade and this is your primary strike platform then it will need to survive
Tiered s400 and Barak 8 and Akash defence. Then avoid detetection by 5 different bvr platforms from.rafale mki mig29upg tejas and mirage2000.

That's why Egypt which deploys same fighters as India ie Rafale mirage and mig29 scrapped the mirage 5 . It's limitations are to great to influence a modern full.scale war

No matter how many times you ask twisted question and India by any means try to know something inside strike planes; trust me no one will tell you how capable those are. The only thing & time when India will become aware of quality of PAF birds, will be another 27th February type situation. These birds were obsolete but still neither the Asian Raptor (MKI) nor the mighty Air Defence worked at all & strike package delivered the punch.

Since IAF is purchasing further new gen & capable platform; the counter offensive will come into play again when needed. The day PAF failed to counter IAF practically, will be the day when Pakistan will be at mercy of enemy and I don't see that coming ever since it didn't happen while IAF had all the shiny toys as compare to small PAF with fewer planes. Since, Pakistan Military doesn't believe in power on the paper and through media; everyone will be jumping all around due to the look of it. The capability will only be proven when the time comes whether S400, Barak or Rafale, Meteor or MiG-29s.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Welcome back - haven't seen you in a while. Hope all is well. I don't know what exactly the mirage can do which the JF-17 can't - I'm assuming low level strike - very low level, where the clean delta shines with its stability and ability to carry heavy munitions.

I personally also feel a new aircraft is needed to replace the Mirages, as the enemy has improved their defenses and this requires an equivalent better response. Perhaps a low cost program like the F-117 that took the parts bin of multiple aircraft such as the F-16 and created a new aircraft out of it, that met the challenge of improved Soviet air defenses admirably.

Would love to see your input on the new mini-submarine project (SWAT), the major upgradation of the surface fleet and the supposed boomers coming. And according to some, the J-15.

I am just an old man. I don't know much about these topics.

 

[volatile]

Brother, no need to flare up, my point was just that the JF-17 is still not mature enough to replace the Mirages in strike role on 1:1 basis. JF-17 can perform the task of Mirages but still not as good as the Mirages themselves. And if the Horus news is true, why would PAF still want to buy used Mirages given it already has 100+ JF-17s in inventory?

JF-17 will continue to evolve and hopefully will grow up to be much more stronger and reliable in strike role as well, but Mirages still remain the preferred platforms for PAF in strike role. 27.02 was just a validation of that. Peace!

Please refer to my 1st comments that this is a bad decision from Marketing point of view or commercially as when you are promoting your product which is supposed to be replacing there Mirages and yours ,you are offering them assembly line and then you are asking for Mirages 2nd hand of 40 year old frames saying JF17 is not ready yet ,JF17 has built in many flaws like the undercarriage very lower to ground and many other *** well ,we need a decent replacement of Mirages as JF17 will never able to do all of the thing

 

[denel]

Oh bhai when you dont know any thing dont put your nose in any matter ,please read first then comment .JF17 was designed keeping in mind replacing the A5s,F7s and Mirages

The PAC JF-17 Thunder (Urdu: جے ایف-١٧ گرج‎), or CAC FC-1 Xiaolong (pinyin: Xiāo Lóng; lit.: 'Fierce Dragon'), is a lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft developed jointly by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China. It was designed to replace the A-5C, F-7P/PG, Mirage III, and Mirage V combat aircraft in the Pakistan Air Force.

I concur with you but from concept until now, there are gaps in what jf-17 can do which over time will narrow. Frankly if PAC had undertaken to a cheetah upgrade back 20 years ago when everything was available. In summary given the economic situation - M3/5 will just be patched along as temporary gaps; we know temporary has a bad habit of becoming permanent.

 

[litman]

4.5 Generation Jets are not going anywhere for next 30 to 35 years at least. And PAF will go for at least one 4.5th Generation before looking for 5th Generation

PAF cant afford to go for a new 4.5 gen platform which has limited utilityin the modern warfare. we cant afford. the government is thinking about reducing pensions and we are talking here about inducting new air crafts as if they are toys. PAF will maintain and upgrade the present fleet of JFTs and in future they may (if the economy allows) they will induct a fifth gen jet in a decade or so so as to have a minimum deterrance . as war with india is unlikely it is unwise to waste resources on air crafts just for the sake of competition .after 10 years PAF will comprise of 3 types of air crafts only JFT, F-16 and some fifth gen jets.

 

[volatile]

I concur with you but from concept until now, there are gaps in what jf-17 can do which over time will narrow. Frankly if PAC had undertaken to a cheetah upgrade back 20 years ago when everything was available. In summary given the economic situation - M3/5 will just be patched along as temporary gaps; we know temporary has a bad habit of becoming permanent.

Hi no one is denying the fact ,JF17 provides simple solutions and it will be unfair to task him with every thing atleast Jack of all trades but that requires lot of R&D like JSF programe ,here PAF administration know what are the short comings and I respect these .For some thing in league of Mirages you need some thing else .IMO its a bad commercial move as it appears Mirages are out of question for JF17

 

[denel]

Hi no one is denying the fact ,JF17 provides simple solutions and it will be unfair to task him with every thing atleast Jack of all trades but that requires lot of R&D like JSF programe ,here PAF administration know what are the short comings and I respect these .For some thing in league of Mirages you need some thing else .IMO its a bad commercial move as it appears Mirages are out of question for JF17

Yes i concur, again. we will disagree with your verbiage PAF admin... JH7 in my opinion remains the best strike aircraft to replace M3/5 short of getting PAC work with Atlas engineers to revive the cheetah upgrade.

 

[Tumba]

Wonder what more capabilities paf getting with 3rd gen Mirage 3 why not order few Jf-17 as pakistani says they have full control on manufacturing

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Wonder what more capabilities paf getting with 3rd gen Mirage 3 why not order few Jf-17 as pakistani says they have full control on manufacturing

Lets wait for your Rafale's instead, and then see if you F it up like you did the Flankers.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Yes i concur, again. we will disagree with your verbiage PAF admin... JH7 in my opinion remains the best strike aircraft to replace M3/5 short of getting PAC work with Atlas engineers to revive the cheetah upgrade.

The only reason why PAF is still continuing to use the Mirages and the limitation of JF17 that can be judged from all the development threads comes down to this:
Historically ground attack aircraft would fly very low to the ground keeping visual contact had their wings mounted on top of the fuselage. Examples JH7, Tornado, Jaguar.

France on the other hand produced Mirage 3 with ground hugging capabilities using a low delta wing configuration which till today is a trademark achievement.

USA had retractable wings so that the F14 could be used for low level flight as well as high level.

This could be the only reason why JF-17 is not yet up to the PAF standards, may be increased wing area of JF-17 block 3 could be addressing this along with higher speed and more powerful engine.

 

[Akh1112]

Strike aircraft need excellent jammers and ew suites and highly advanced navigation and attack radars in order to penetrate increasingly sophisticated air defences.

If you intend to soldier on for decade and this is your primary strike platform then it will need to survive
Tiered s400 and Barak 8 and Akash defence. Then avoid detetection by 5 different bvr platforms from.rafale mki mig29upg tejas and mirage2000.

That's why Egypt which deploys same fighters as India ie Rafale mirage and mig29 scrapped the mirage 5 . It's limitations are to great to influence a modern full.scale war

This is false, Strike aircraft do not operate independently. A strike package is bound to have JF-17 escorts which carry dedicated jamming gear, so there's that.

Secondly, you are assuming the Mirages even have to leave Pakistani airspace, remember, Ra'ad has a range of like 700km, its the answer to your 'tiered' air defence setup, besides, the PAF has been training in SEAD with China, even against the S400. Regardless, depending on where the S-400 is deployed, it isnt exactly going to be the most effective thing because of the terrain in the area, nothing to stop a Mirage V from flying down low, popping a ra'ad from 150km out and laying waste to your tiered SAM network. Also, its more a worry about your BVR platforms actually being able to detect the strike package. May i remind you, the JF-17 effectively outclasses every BVR platform you have in service bar the Rafales. Id be more worried about your platforms catching an SD-10 or perhaps, a PL-15.

 

[denel]

The only reason why PAF is still continuing to use the Mirages and the limitation of JF17 that can be judged from all the development threads comes down to this:
Historically ground attack aircraft would fly very low to the ground keeping visual contact had their wings mounted on top of the fuselage. Examples JH7, Tornado, Jaguar.

France on the other hand produced Mirage 3 with ground hugging capabilities using a low delta wing configuration which till today is a trademark achievement.

USA had retractable wings so that the F14 could be used for low level flight as well as high level.

This could be the only reason why JF-17 is not yet up to the PAF standards, may be increased wing area of JF-17 block 3 could be addressing this along with higher speed and more powerful engine.

Actually M5 was more a ground attack vs M3. Nevertheless, I doubt there was any terrain following computing navigation unless added as part of ROSE. Cheetah had an attack configuration system which allowed this particular capability - regular IIIEZ did not have that capability.