The PAF is set to receive a batch of Egyptian Air Force Mirage-Vs

[Bilal Khan 777]

The only reason why PAF is still continuing to use the Mirages and the limitation of JF17 that can be judged from all the development threads comes down to this:
Historically ground attack aircraft would fly very low to the ground keeping visual contact had their wings mounted on top of the fuselage. Examples JH7, Tornado, Jaguar.

France on the other hand produced Mirage 3 with ground hugging capabilities using a low delta wing configuration which till today is a trademark achievement.

USA had retractable wings so that the F14 could be used for low level flight as well as high level.

This could be the only reason why JF-17 is not yet up to the PAF standards, may be increased wing area of JF-17 block 3 could be addressing this along with higher speed and more powerful engine.

It's not a limitation. The advent of SSM relieves the AF of deep strike using A/C only. The issue is numbers. Pilots need to be trained, and pilots need to keep fit. To do that, you need aircraft. Mirage lives on to fill the role, to ensure that we have the pilots and they are fit.

 

[SQ8]

Actually M5 was more a ground attack vs M3. Nevertheless, I doubt there was any terrain following computing navigation unless added as part of ROSE. Cheetah had an attack configuration system which allowed this particular capability - regular IIIEZ did not have that capability.

Anything on the grapevine regarding your former colleagues or their protégés taking a trip to look at the upgrade?

 

[denel]

Anything on the grapevine regarding your former colleagues or their protégés taking a trip to look at the upgrade?

no nothing heard with respect to upgrade work.

 

[SQ8]

no nothing heard with respect to upgrade work.

I think the Cheetah upgrades were useful for their time but Paramount(or whatever represents that knowledge group) needs to present their version of a “EX” type upgrade to the PAF.
Bear in mind that the AWC PAF also has knowledge built in by now so it has to be something they really haven’t the capability for within a reasonable price.

EX’s may be a brand new frame, but MRF could take cues from the JF-17 line to built something. After all, if IAI built the KFIR which is still a great jet (C.10) today comparable to a late model Cheetah then something can be done for a Mirage 2030 type.

 

[denel]

I think the Cheetah upgrades were useful for their time but Paramount(or whatever represents that knowledge group) needs to present their version of a “EX” type upgrade to the PAF.
Bear in mind that the AWC PAF also has knowledge built in by now so it has to be something they really haven’t the capability for within a reasonable price.

EX’s may be a brand new frame, but MRF could take cues from the JF-17 line to built something. After all, if IAI built the KFIR which is still a great jet (C.10) today comparable to a late model Cheetah then something can be done for a Mirage 2030 type.

i believe this was presented long time back; even then a cold shoulder was given. instead they chose to go down the ROSE upgrade.

 

[The Eagle]

I think the Cheetah upgrades were useful for their time but Paramount(or whatever represents that knowledge group) needs to present their version of a “EX” type upgrade to the PAF.
Bear in mind that the AWC PAF also has knowledge built in by now so it has to be something they really haven’t the capability for within a reasonable price.

EX’s may be a brand new frame, but MRF could take cues from the JF-17 line to built something. After all, if IAI built the KFIR which is still a great jet (C.10) today comparable to a late model Cheetah then something can be done for a Mirage 2030 type.

Great suggestion along with possible way to do. I wouldn't insist on resources to do so or the will but a question came to mind that do you expect any opposition by French if we are going to involve in something Mirage-2030 or that name was just a reference but we will having our own bird?

 

[SQ8]

i believe this was presented long time back; even then a cold shoulder was given. instead they chose to go down the ROSE upgrade.

It all depends upon two things and the priorities/honesty of the leadership for the two:
Technical merit
Kickbacks

Great suggestion along with possible way to do. I wouldn't insist on resources to do so or the will but a question came to mind that do you expect any opposition by French if we are going to involve in something Mirage-2030 or that name was just a reference but we will having our own bird?

The French cant do jack about it anymore - they went all in with the Indians and took themselves off our supplier list. We can call it Mirage 2000 and they have no say in it.

 

[denel]

It all depends upon two things and the priorities/honesty of the leadership for the two:
Technical merit
Kickbacks


The French cant do jack about it anymore - they went all in with the Indians and took themselves off our supplier list. We can call it Mirage 2000 and they have no say in it.

It was more of the later. Cheetah upgrade or even a tier 2 upgrade would have brought systems and aircraft closer to M2K; this would have included helmet mounted sights (20 yrs back). french had bigger packets to pay.

 

[The Eagle]

The French cant do jack about it anymore - they went all in with the Indians and took themselves off our supplier list. We can call it Mirage 2000 and they have no say in it.

Then the only reason to no go for such a surprising development could be that PAF might have something on mind fulfilling Mirage role to the fullest & being a 4.5++ platform with other capabilities. Wanted to bother you to know more of possibilities your view & experience that whether PAF may go ahead with Mirage-2030 idea ( I personally liked it as that will in-fact surprise many for years to come) or there has to be a newer platform for replacement and take over the role of retiring Mirage platform.

 

[Talon]

All these lengthy discussions gone to waste if C130s didn't bring any mirages..which most probably they didn't..

 

[Raider 21]

It's not a limitation. The advent of SSM relieves the AF of deep strike using A/C only. The issue is numbers. Pilots need to be trained, and pilots need to keep fit. To do that, you need aircraft. Mirage lives on to fill the role, to ensure that we have the pilots and they are fit.

The current crop of Mirage drivers don't share that point of view, but good summary nonetheless. By fit meaning current with the profession, physical fitness thankfully is being addressed strongly by the leadership these days.

 

[Imran Khan]

All these lengthy discussions gone to waste if C130s didn't bring any mirages..which most probably they didn't..

ALLAH kareen yehi ho . we are tired of these vintage mirages and i wish they will be grounded tonight . only thunders and falcons are enough and we have to stick on 5th gen program till then . PAF have became a kabari shop these days man .

 

[SQ8]

All these lengthy discussions gone to waste if C130s didn't bring any mirages..which most probably they didn't..

I would doubt C-130s are bringing in complete airframes - something else came or went.
Could be related to Mirages or could be the Egyptians evacuating embassy equipment and staff to reduce footprint during COVID.

 

[Ali_Baba]

ALLAH kareen yehi ho . we are tired of these vintage mirages and i wish they will be grounded tonight . only thunders and falcons are enough and we have to stick on 5th gen program till then . PAF have became a kabari shop these days man .

I agree. I am very tired of seeing PAF buy up these old relics and then people try to explain how they are more relevant to PAF usecase than a JF17 does.

 

[Imran Khan]

I agree. I am very tired of seeing PAF buy up these old relics and then people try to explain how they are more relevant to PAF usecase than a JF17 does.

if they were that much good why France stop production and some 15 countries retired them already