Levina
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2013
- Messages
- 15,278
- Reaction score
- 59
- Country
- Location
The mythical Aryan invasion:
This must be the umpteenth time a thread on this topic is created. Not that my thread is going to be any different but I wanted to consolidate all the genetic evidences and physical evidences which debunk the Aryan invasion theory in one thread.
Aryans....who were they?
Rigveda mentions ARYANS as nobles. The word 'Arya' in Sanskrit means noble and never a race,since the concept of race itself has been debunked so "aryan race" is nothing but an imaginary term.
In the authoritative Sanskrit lexicon (c. 450 AD), the famous Amarakosa gives the following definition:
"mahakula kulinarya sabhya sajjana sadhavah" :An Arya is one who hails from a noble family, of gentle behavior and demeanor, good-natured and of righteous conduct.
And the great epic Ramayana has a singularly eloquent expression describing Rama as:
"arya sarva samascaiva sadaiva priyadarsanah": Arya, who worked for the equality of all and was dear to everyone.
The Rigveda also uses the word Arya something like thirty six times, but never to mean a race. Albeit i will have to check if Hitler's Mein Kampf uses the word more number of times on every page.
The nearest to a definition that one can find in the Rigveda is probably:
"praja arya jyotiragrah"... (Children of Arya are led by light)
RV, VII. 33.17
AIT.....Germans created it Britishers propagated it
So it all began when German scholar called Max Muller attempted for the first time to date the Vedas. Accepting that the Sutra literature was datable to the 6th century BCE, he gave a block-period of 200 years to the preceding three parts of the Vedic literature, namely the Aranyakas, Brahmanas and Vedas. Thus, he arrived at 1200 BCE as the date of the Vedas. But when his contempraries like Goldstucker, Whitney and Wilson, objected to his ad-hocism, he toned down, and finally surrendered by saying : “Whether the Vedic hymns were composed [in] 1000 or 1500 or 2000 or 3000 BC, no power on earth will ever determine.” (Max Muller 1890, reprint 1979).
AIT (aryan invasion theory) was later used by the British colonial powers to divide Indian society into so called Aryans and so-called Dravidians, it was necessary after the revolt of 1857.
They also tried to portray Vedic culture as a culture “imposed” on the “natives”; this arbitrary allegation was in turn used to promote conversions to Christianity among the so called Dravidians, lower castes, untouchables (today called “Dalits”) and tribes.
Indra, the destroyer of forts
In 1946 came Mortimer Wheeler who discovered a fortification wall at Harappa. He was told that the Aryan god Indra is also referred as as puramdara (destroyer of forts),he was quick to jump into conclusion that “On circumstantial evidence Indra [representing the Aryans] stands accused [of destroying the Harappan Civilization].”
(Wheeler 1947: 82)
Lol at that!!!
Misinterpretation of texts:
Professor Witzel was the one who mistranslated a part of the Baudhayana Srautasutra (Witzel 1995: 320-21).
This is his translation of the hymns...
"Aya went eastwards. His (people) are the Kuru-Pancalas and Kasi Videha. This is the Ayava(migration).(His other people)stayed at home in the west. His people are the Gandhari, Parasu and Aratta. This is the Amavasava (group).
But the correct translation
Ayu migrated eastwards. His (people) are the Kuru-Pancalas and the Kasi-Videhas. This is the Ayava (migration). Amavasu migrated westwards. His (people) are the Ghandhari, Parsu and Aratta. This is the Amavasu (migration).
Now this would mean that the actual migration according to Baudhayana occured as
Needless to say that Professor Witzel was humiliated when he was told about the translation during a seminar organized by UMASS, Dartmouth in June 2006.
X,Y and Z of Aryan Genes
In 2003 Geneticist Toomas Kivisild compared the diversity of R1a1 (R-M17) haplogroup in Indian, Pakistani, Iranian, Central Asian, Czech and Estonian populations. The study showed that the diversity of R1a1 in India, Pakistan, and Iran, is higher than in Czechs (40%), and Estonians.
Kivisild came to the conclusion that "southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup".
"Haplogroup R1a, previously associated with the putative Indo-Aryan invasion, was found at its highest frequency in Punjab but also at a relatively high frequency (26%) in the Chenchu tribe(in Andhrapradesh, Telangana, Karnataka and Odisha) This finding, together with the higher R1a-associated short tandem repeat diversity in India and Iran compared with Europe and central Asia, suggests that southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup".[12]
“Given the geographic spread and STR diversities of sister clades R1 and R2, the latter of which is restricted to India, Pakistan, Iran, and southern central Asia, it is possible that southern and western Asia were the source for R1 and R1a differentiation.”
Another study by David Reich, Nick Patterson, Alkes L. Price in 2009 says
There is no truth to the Aryan-Dravidian theory.
The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. "The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society. The study also said that it's impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different."
The present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).
The study also helps understand why the incidence of genetic diseases among Indians is different from the rest of the world. It was found during the course of research that 70% of Indians were burdened with genetic disorders and the study could help answer why certain conditions restricted themselves to one population. For instance, breast cancer among Parsi women, motor neuron diseases among residents of Tirupati and Chittoor, or sickle cell anaemia among certain tribes in central India and the North-East can now be understood better, said researchers.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7263/full/nature08365.html
Indo-European linguistic commonality as a proof...or is it?
The structural commonality of the Indo-European group of languages which many think is a proof of AIT, should also know that the Harappan civilization had extensive trade and commercial ties with Babylon as well as with civilizations to the further West. There is a remarkable similarity in seals and cultural artifacts found in Harappan India, Babylon and even the early civilizations of the Mediterranean such as Crete. Ergo linguistic commonality may have developed quite early through trade and cultural contacts and that this common linguistic structure may have subsequently moved from South to North. Since Mediterranean Europe and the Middle Eastern civilizations developed well before the civilizations of Northern Europe, such a possibility is not altogether inconceivable.
Urdu is an example of a language that was introduced as a result of a series of invasions, adding a large body of foreign words while maintaining the syntactical structure and vocabulary base of the previous language.
So where did the harappans go???
Unfortunately those who earlier supported the Aryan invasion theory and could not prove it, have now switched to Aryan migration theory. There are evidences of circular hut like structures built on harappan sites towards the end of harappan period, the mature harappan period lasted from 2500-1500 BCE. The original structures of Harappa, Mohenjodaro (now in Pakistan) or a Harappan metropolitan like Dholavira (India), were all rectangular in shape. The city and the houses were built according to certain proportions but the new comers who came towards the end of Harappan period had no knowledge of this.
A joint French American team led by H. Weiss of Yale University has determined that most of the old world civilization were severely affected by a prolonged drought that began about 2200 B.C, and persisted for about 300 years. The most drastically hit region seems to have been the Akkadian civilization neighboring India. Similar climate change, land degradation and collapse had also hit the Aegean, Palestine, Egypt, and India around 1900BCE. This is how an etire civilisation collapsed but were not wiped out. They moved on to greener pastures in the ganges plains, Ganga river became their next stop. A reason why after Saraswati river Ganga holds an important place in the sanatana dharma.
My answer to you: @save_ghenda @ghoul @Sinnerman108
Sources:
To Revert to the Theory of ‘Aryan Invasion, The Aryan Invasion: theories, counter-theories and historical significance, genetics and Aryan invasion-Michel Danino.
The Genetic Heritage of the Earliest Settlers Persists Both in Indian Tribal and Caste Populations- Kivislid
[HASHTAG]#AryanInvasion[/HASHTAG]
This must be the umpteenth time a thread on this topic is created. Not that my thread is going to be any different but I wanted to consolidate all the genetic evidences and physical evidences which debunk the Aryan invasion theory in one thread.
Aryans....who were they?
Rigveda mentions ARYANS as nobles. The word 'Arya' in Sanskrit means noble and never a race,since the concept of race itself has been debunked so "aryan race" is nothing but an imaginary term.
In the authoritative Sanskrit lexicon (c. 450 AD), the famous Amarakosa gives the following definition:
"mahakula kulinarya sabhya sajjana sadhavah" :An Arya is one who hails from a noble family, of gentle behavior and demeanor, good-natured and of righteous conduct.
And the great epic Ramayana has a singularly eloquent expression describing Rama as:
"arya sarva samascaiva sadaiva priyadarsanah": Arya, who worked for the equality of all and was dear to everyone.
The Rigveda also uses the word Arya something like thirty six times, but never to mean a race. Albeit i will have to check if Hitler's Mein Kampf uses the word more number of times on every page.
The nearest to a definition that one can find in the Rigveda is probably:
"praja arya jyotiragrah"... (Children of Arya are led by light)
RV, VII. 33.17
AIT.....Germans created it Britishers propagated it
So it all began when German scholar called Max Muller attempted for the first time to date the Vedas. Accepting that the Sutra literature was datable to the 6th century BCE, he gave a block-period of 200 years to the preceding three parts of the Vedic literature, namely the Aranyakas, Brahmanas and Vedas. Thus, he arrived at 1200 BCE as the date of the Vedas. But when his contempraries like Goldstucker, Whitney and Wilson, objected to his ad-hocism, he toned down, and finally surrendered by saying : “Whether the Vedic hymns were composed [in] 1000 or 1500 or 2000 or 3000 BC, no power on earth will ever determine.” (Max Muller 1890, reprint 1979).
AIT (aryan invasion theory) was later used by the British colonial powers to divide Indian society into so called Aryans and so-called Dravidians, it was necessary after the revolt of 1857.
They also tried to portray Vedic culture as a culture “imposed” on the “natives”; this arbitrary allegation was in turn used to promote conversions to Christianity among the so called Dravidians, lower castes, untouchables (today called “Dalits”) and tribes.
Indra, the destroyer of forts
In 1946 came Mortimer Wheeler who discovered a fortification wall at Harappa. He was told that the Aryan god Indra is also referred as as puramdara (destroyer of forts),he was quick to jump into conclusion that “On circumstantial evidence Indra [representing the Aryans] stands accused [of destroying the Harappan Civilization].”
(Wheeler 1947: 82)
Lol at that!!!
Misinterpretation of texts:
Professor Witzel was the one who mistranslated a part of the Baudhayana Srautasutra (Witzel 1995: 320-21).
This is his translation of the hymns...
"Aya went eastwards. His (people) are the Kuru-Pancalas and Kasi Videha. This is the Ayava(migration).(His other people)stayed at home in the west. His people are the Gandhari, Parasu and Aratta. This is the Amavasava (group).
But the correct translation
Ayu migrated eastwards. His (people) are the Kuru-Pancalas and the Kasi-Videhas. This is the Ayava (migration). Amavasu migrated westwards. His (people) are the Ghandhari, Parsu and Aratta. This is the Amavasu (migration).
Now this would mean that the actual migration according to Baudhayana occured as
Needless to say that Professor Witzel was humiliated when he was told about the translation during a seminar organized by UMASS, Dartmouth in June 2006.
X,Y and Z of Aryan Genes
In 2003 Geneticist Toomas Kivisild compared the diversity of R1a1 (R-M17) haplogroup in Indian, Pakistani, Iranian, Central Asian, Czech and Estonian populations. The study showed that the diversity of R1a1 in India, Pakistan, and Iran, is higher than in Czechs (40%), and Estonians.
Kivisild came to the conclusion that "southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup".
"Haplogroup R1a, previously associated with the putative Indo-Aryan invasion, was found at its highest frequency in Punjab but also at a relatively high frequency (26%) in the Chenchu tribe(in Andhrapradesh, Telangana, Karnataka and Odisha) This finding, together with the higher R1a-associated short tandem repeat diversity in India and Iran compared with Europe and central Asia, suggests that southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup".[12]
“Given the geographic spread and STR diversities of sister clades R1 and R2, the latter of which is restricted to India, Pakistan, Iran, and southern central Asia, it is possible that southern and western Asia were the source for R1 and R1a differentiation.”
Another study by David Reich, Nick Patterson, Alkes L. Price in 2009 says
There is no truth to the Aryan-Dravidian theory.
The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. "The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society. The study also said that it's impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different."
The present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).
The study also helps understand why the incidence of genetic diseases among Indians is different from the rest of the world. It was found during the course of research that 70% of Indians were burdened with genetic disorders and the study could help answer why certain conditions restricted themselves to one population. For instance, breast cancer among Parsi women, motor neuron diseases among residents of Tirupati and Chittoor, or sickle cell anaemia among certain tribes in central India and the North-East can now be understood better, said researchers.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7263/full/nature08365.html
Indo-European linguistic commonality as a proof...or is it?
The structural commonality of the Indo-European group of languages which many think is a proof of AIT, should also know that the Harappan civilization had extensive trade and commercial ties with Babylon as well as with civilizations to the further West. There is a remarkable similarity in seals and cultural artifacts found in Harappan India, Babylon and even the early civilizations of the Mediterranean such as Crete. Ergo linguistic commonality may have developed quite early through trade and cultural contacts and that this common linguistic structure may have subsequently moved from South to North. Since Mediterranean Europe and the Middle Eastern civilizations developed well before the civilizations of Northern Europe, such a possibility is not altogether inconceivable.
Urdu is an example of a language that was introduced as a result of a series of invasions, adding a large body of foreign words while maintaining the syntactical structure and vocabulary base of the previous language.
So where did the harappans go???
Unfortunately those who earlier supported the Aryan invasion theory and could not prove it, have now switched to Aryan migration theory. There are evidences of circular hut like structures built on harappan sites towards the end of harappan period, the mature harappan period lasted from 2500-1500 BCE. The original structures of Harappa, Mohenjodaro (now in Pakistan) or a Harappan metropolitan like Dholavira (India), were all rectangular in shape. The city and the houses were built according to certain proportions but the new comers who came towards the end of Harappan period had no knowledge of this.
A joint French American team led by H. Weiss of Yale University has determined that most of the old world civilization were severely affected by a prolonged drought that began about 2200 B.C, and persisted for about 300 years. The most drastically hit region seems to have been the Akkadian civilization neighboring India. Similar climate change, land degradation and collapse had also hit the Aegean, Palestine, Egypt, and India around 1900BCE. This is how an etire civilisation collapsed but were not wiped out. They moved on to greener pastures in the ganges plains, Ganga river became their next stop. A reason why after Saraswati river Ganga holds an important place in the sanatana dharma.
My answer to you: @save_ghenda @ghoul @Sinnerman108
Sources:
To Revert to the Theory of ‘Aryan Invasion, The Aryan Invasion: theories, counter-theories and historical significance, genetics and Aryan invasion-Michel Danino.
The Genetic Heritage of the Earliest Settlers Persists Both in Indian Tribal and Caste Populations- Kivislid
[HASHTAG]#AryanInvasion[/HASHTAG]
Last edited:
