THE MYTH OF NORTH AFRICA AS ARAB,UNCOVERED

[Saif al-Arab]

The Berber E is African assimilated by the Semitic, which means that most Berbers are African on the father side and Semitic on the mother side. They have also adopted the Semitic culture.



K could also likely be originally Caucasoid like J and I, but their children NOQ mixed with the East Asian natives, so the modern NOQ looks Mongoloid, while R migrated back to Europe and absorbed the leftover of I, so R still remained as Caucasoid.

In any case the deep link between haplogroup J and I and the haplogroup K that dominates China/much of Far East Asia is definitely interesting.

I wonder where haplogroup E (the second most common haplogroup in the Arab world overall) fits into this? Some say that it originates in the Horn of Africa but it is not fully resolved yet.

Hitler of all people apparently belonged to Haplogroup E, LOL.

https://www.familytreedna.com/PDF/FTDNA_Mulders.pdf

As did Napoleon. One of his ancestors was called Il Muro (the Moor). True story.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

You guys need to visit this website:

http://admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com/

It'll hopefully settle the whole debate lol.

According to scientific sources:

1. Moroccans are 23.6% similar to Spanish people, 11.9% similar to Tunisians, 11.0% similar to Egyptians, 8.0% similar to Jordanians, and only 2.8% similar to Saudis.

2. Egyptians are 17.7% similar to Jordanians, 11.5% similar to Moroccans, 9.4% similar to Iranians, 8.9% similar to Syrians, 4.8% similar to Turks, and only 2.9% similar to Saudis.

3. Tunisians are 49.7% similar to Moroccans, 10.0% similar to Saudis, 5.9% similar to Cypriots, 5.9% similar to south Italians, and 3.7% similar to north Italians.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

According to scientific sources:

1. Moroccans are 23.6% similar to Spanish people, 11.9% similar to Tunisians, 11.0% similar to Egyptians, 8.0% similar to Jordanians, and only 2.8% similar to Saudis.

2. Egyptians are 17.7% similar to Jordanians, 11.5% similar to Moroccans, 9.4% similar to Iranians, 8.9% similar to Syrians, 4.8% similar to Turks, and only 2.9% similar to Saudis.

3. Tunisians are 49.7% similar to Moroccans, 10.0% similar to Saudis, 5.9% similar to Cypriots, 5.9% similar to south Italians, and 3.7% similar to north Italians.

That data is obviously bogus.

In every DNA test Saudi Arabians and Egyptians cluster with each other very strongly.

Anything else makes no sense either looking at the haplogroups found in both countries and their frequency.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

In any case the deep link between haplogroup J and I and the haplogroup K that dominates China/much of Far East Asia is definitely interesting.

I wonder where haplogroup E (the second most common haplogroup in the Arab world overall) fits into this? Some say that it originates in the Horn of Africa but it is not fully resolved yet.

Hitler of all people belonged to Haplogroup E, LOL.

The natives of East Asia was CD, and K was pretty much the latecomer.

The original K was pretty much extinct, and only four offspring haplogroups remained which is NOQR.

We don't know how the original K looked like, but assume K and IJ were brothers, so they would look like some kind of Mediterranean phenotype.

The original E was definitely Sub-Sarahan African, and those modern non-African E look Caucasoid because their ancestors married the Caucasian women.

 

[Anaoshak]

Wasn't northern Iran part of the fertile crescent civilizations, Sumer Babylon and others?

No, it was the western fringes of Iran.

"The modern-day countries with significant territory within the Fertile Crescent are Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, the State of Palestine, Egypt, as well as the southeastern fringe of Turkey and the western fringes of Iran."
What's interesting is that all of these parts, the J2 dominated. And as i mentioned in the post that you quoted, the earliest findings of J2 is in the Hotu Cave in northern Iran.
This map posted earlier is pretty accurate, i guess.

EDIT:
@The SC

Forgot to add this, but the Hotu Cave in Northern Iran that i mentioned is in this area, if you wanted to know that.

Well to be precise, about 5 km south west from that point.

The ancestral haplogroup for the Chinese O is K, which is the brother haplogroup to J (Semitic) and I (Cro-Magnon).

The Chinese O is younger compared to the Semitic J and Cro-Magnon I.

All J Isn't Semitic. J1 is considered Semitic because as i mentioned,

• Haplogroup J1 (M267) is associated with Northeast Caucasian peoples in Dagestan and Semitic peoples in the Middle East. Though the earliest evidence of it was found in Satsurblia cave (Georgia/West Asia).

• Haplogroup J2 (M172) is found mainly in Anatolia, Greece, the Balkans, Italy, Iran, South/Central Asia and the Caucasus. Though the earliest evidence of it is found in northern Iran.

• You guys need to visit this website:

• 
  http://admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com/
  
  It'll hopefully settle the whole debate lol.

• 
  Just skimped through it real quick because it looked interesting but the research was a little flawed though. Don't you think? A lot of the countries had less than 20 Individuals that they had Analyzed, most of them seemed to be in the 10-20. Not really that extensive I'd say. Interesting tho.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

That data is obviously bogus.

In every DNA test Saudi Arabians and Egyptians cluster with each other very strongly.

Anything else makes no sense either looking at the haplogroups found in both countries and their frequency.

Everything that doesn't fit your worldview must be bogus.

 

[Mamluk]

According to scientific sources (?):

1. Moroccans are 23.6% similar to Spanish people, 11.9% similar to Tunisians, 11.0% similar to Egyptians, 8.0% similar to Jordanians, and only 2.8% similar to Saudis.

2. Egyptians are 17.7% similar to Jordanians, 11.5% similar to Moroccans, 9.4% similar to Iranians, 8.9% similar to Syrians, 4.8% similar to Turks, and only 2.9% similar to Saudis.

3. Tunisians are 49.7% similar to Moroccans, 10.0% similar to Saudis, 5.9% similar to Cypriots, 5.9% similar to south Italians, and 3.7% similar to north Italians.

Which sourses? Some random blog?
Provide some links next time.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

The natives of East Asia was CD, and K was pretty much the latecomer.

The original K was pretty much extinct, and only four offspring haplogroups remained which is NOQR.

We don't know how the original K looked like, but assume K and IJ were brothers, so they would look like some kind of Mediterranean phenotype.

The original E was definitely Sub-Sarahan African, and those modern non-African E looks Caucasoid because their ancestors married the Caucasian women.

Those are some of the haplogroups found in Arabia. Basically all of the major ones can be found.

Haplogroup %
n 618
A 0.16
B 0.81
C 0.97
DE 0.81
E-M33 0.32
E-M2 5.66
E-M35 1.94
E-M78 0.49
E-V12 -
E-V32 -
E-V13 0.32
E-V22 2.43
E-V65 -
E-M81 0.16
E-M34 5.66
F-M89 1.29
G-M201 2.91
H-M69 2.1
I -
J1-M267 44.01
J2-M172 11.32
KT 4.37
L 2.27
N -
O 0.65
P,R 0.32
Q 1.46
R1a1 6.31
R1b-M343 0.16
R1b-V88 -
R1b-M269 2.43
R2 0.16
T 2.49 *

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Peninsula#Y-Chromosome

Mind you, this is just one genetic test and very few people have been tested so far and mostly only in specific regions so it is not really that representative. This is the problem in much of the Arab world. Genetics is not really that big yet. it is a very fringe area so to speak.

 

[Mamluk]

The original E was definitely Sub-Sarahan African, and those modern non-African E look Caucasoid because their ancestors married the Caucasian women.

So what happened to the Caucasian men there, I wonder!

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Everything that doesn't fit your worldview must be bogus.

It's bogus/inaccurate because it goes against almost ALL genetic studies some of which I have posted in this very thread. Let alone history, simple geography and logic.

Basically every single DNA tests where different populations are compared Saudi Arabians cluster (and other Arabians but in particular Saudi Arabians as we are geographically closer) together with neighboring Egyptians, Iraqis, and especially Levantines (Jordanians, Palestinian, Syrians) and afterwards other people in the region.

Haplogroup J (J1 and J2) and E are by far the two most common haplogroups in both KSA and Egypt.

Also there was an National Geographic DNA test where a quite large sample was taken (I am trying to find the data as almost every ethnic group was included) and there Saudi Arabians and Egyptians were the closest to each other along with Jordanians, Iraqis, Syrians and Palestinians. So basically the triangle connecting Africa/Sham/Arabia.

It was divided into "Red Sea ancestry", "Southwest Asia" etc. Trying to find it now. Give me a few minutes.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So what happened to the Caucasian men there, I wonder!

The Semitic J allowed those African men E to join them and also to marry their women.

 

[Kambojaric]

I understand your pov, but tunisians of the coast are very very different from the inner country. just see our president or just come to sfax/sousse/tunis nabeul or anyother coastal city and you'll see. and that is only tunisia, see the algerians, you'll think they are europeans. and libyans are mostly from sub saharans ppl

One of my close friends is from Sfax, guy is super pale with green eyes. As white as any white person lol.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Those are some of the haplogroups found in Arabia. Basically all of the major ones can be found.

Haplogroup %
n 618
A 0.16
B 0.81
C 0.97
DE 0.81
E-M33 0.32
E-M2 5.66
E-M35 1.94
E-M78 0.49
E-V12 -
E-V32 -
E-V13 0.32
E-V22 2.43
E-V65 -
E-M81 0.16
E-M34 5.66
F-M89 1.29
G-M201 2.91
H-M69 2.1
I -
J1-M267 44.01
J2-M172 11.32
KT 4.37
L 2.27
N -
O 0.65
P,R 0.32
Q 1.46
R1a1 6.31
R1b-M343 0.16
R1b-V88 -
R1b-M269 2.43
R2 0.16
T 2.49 *

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Peninsula#Y-Chromosome

Mind you, this is just one genetic test and very few people have been tested so far and mostly only in specific regions so it is not really that representative. This is the problem in much of the Arab world. Genetics is not really that big yet. it is a very fringe area so to speak.

When the first African human migrated out of Africa, the Middle East was their major outpost to spread to the rest of the world.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

It's bogus/inaccurate because it goes against almost ALL genetic studies some of which I have posted in this very thread. Let alone history, simple geography and logic.

Basically every single DNA tests where different populations are compared Saudi Arabians cluster (and other Arabians but in particular Saudi Arabians as we are geographically closer) together with neighboring Egyptians, Iraqis, and especially Levantines (Jordanians, Palestinian, Syrians) and afterwards other people in the region.

Haplogroup J (J1 and J2) and E are by far the two most common haplogroups in both KSA and Egypt.

Also there was an National Geographic DNA test where a quite large sample was taken (I am trying to find the data as almost every ethnic group was included) and there Saudi Arabians and Egyptians were the closest to each other along with Jordanians, Iraqis, Syrians and Palestinians. So basically the triangle connecting Africa/Sham/Arabia.

It was divided into "Red Sea ancestry", "Southwest Asia" etc.

That's why it said that Egyptians were 17.7% similar to Jordanians.

Southern Jordan is where Haplogroup J1 is thought to have originated.

Haplogroup J2, on the other hand, originated somewhere up north in Mesopotamia, which also explains why the study said Egyptians were 9.4% similar to Iranians and 8.9% similar to Syrians.

BTW, you're looking way too much into Y-DNA haplogroups. They're only part of the story. You also have autosomal DNA and mtDNA to take into account.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@@xxx[{::::::::::::::::::> @ChineseTiger1986 @Chinese-Dragon @The SC @EgyptianAmerican

Just thought that you might find this useful.

It confirms everything that I have said so far in this thread.

Almost every ethnic group is included.

Must see:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q1LKZqeQRS28WjwyAQPs5I7QBUWv3Q3mF9bVpJp6eX0/edit#gid=0

Here is an National Geographic one:

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/

The latter unfortunately does not have data from KSA but they have from Kuwait and if you compare Kuwait with Egypt they are very, very similar.

"EGYPTIAN

This reference population is based on samples collected from native Egyptians. As ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through southwest Asia. The 65% Mediterranean and 18% Southwest Asian components in Egypt are representative of that ancient migratory route, as well as later migrations from the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East with the spread of agriculture over the past 10,000 years, and migrations in the 7th century with the spread of Islam from the Arabian peninsula. The 14% sub-Saharan African indicates intermixing with African populations to the south."

"KUWAITI

This reference population is based on samples collected from native Kuwaitis and reflects the great genetic diversity of this region, as it was a crossroads for several migratory groups. As some ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through Southwest Asia en route to the rest of Eurasia. Some populations stayed in the Middle East and southwestern Asia, over time developing unique genetic patterns. The 57% Mediterranean and 27% Southwest Asian components found in our reference Kuwaiti population reflect these ancient patterns. The 4% Northern European percentage is representative of some interaction with European populations, either via populations to the northwest or from migrations through the steppe zone to the northeast. The 2% Northeast Asian component likely arrived via the migrations of groups originating in that region, such as the Turks and Mongols. The Silk Road also may have served to disperse east Asian genetic patterns further to the west. Finally, the 8% sub-Saharan African component reflects the relatively close proximity of Kuwait to Africa, and may have been increased by the Arab slave trade during the 8th-19th centuries."

KSA would be even closer to Egypt due to simple geography and the very close ties between Hijaz (most populous region of KSA that has little if nothing in common Eastern Arabia that Kuwait belongs to) and Egypt.