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THE MYTH OF NORTH AFRICA AS ARAB,UNCOVERED

E1B1A DNA map:

6c5cb8f3-fc96-431c-9a29-84158e501286.jpg


E1B1B DNA maps:

52d883a8-9e1d-45d2-963b-dcc715dace7e.jpg


J2 DNA map:

phpvQVyAuAM.jpg


J1 DNA map:

7004248f-3f12-4ff2-a917-1ca290826033.jpg


G DNA map:

b6e04756-5302-4142-9e10-95f85caed1f8.jpg


R1 DNA map:

00f6ee63-1879-4478-ba57-dbb395297596.jpg



^^^ Egypians are 'Arabs' only if we have brain size of pea.

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Iran Prehistory


A gold cup at the National Museum of Iran, dating from the first half of 1st millennium BC.

Arg-e Bam

Chogha Zanbil is one of the few extant ziggurats outside of Mesopotamia and is considered to be the best preserved example in the world.
Further information: Archaeological sites in Iran and Prehistory of Iran
Further information: Tepe Sialk, Jiroft culture, and Shahr-e Sukhteh
Paleolithic[edit]
The earliest archaeological artifacts in Iran were found in the Kashafrud and Ganj Parsites that are thought to date back to 100,000 years ago in the Middle Paleolithic.[15]Mousterian stone tools made by Neandertalshave also been found.[16] There are more cultural remains of Neandertals dating back to the Middle Paleolithic period, which mainly have been found in the Zagros region and fewer in central Iran at sites such as Kobeh, Kunji, Bisitun Cave, Tamtama, Warwasi, andYafteh Cave.[17] In 1949, a Neanderthal radiuswas discovered by Carleton S. Coon in Bisitun Cave.[18] Evidence for Upper Paleolithic andEpipaleolithic periods are known mainly from the Zagros Mountains in the caves of Kermanshah and Khorramabad and a few number of sites in the Alborz and Central Iran.

Neolithic to Chalcolithic[edit]
Early agricultural communities such as Chogha Golan in 10,000 BC[19][20] along with settlements such as Chogha Bonut (the earliest village in Elam) in 8000 BC,[21][22] began to flourish in and around the Zagros Mountains region in western Iran.[23] Around about the same time, the earliest-known clay vessels and modeled human and animal terracotta figurines were produced at Ganj Dareh, also in western Iran.[23] There are also 10,000-year-old human and animal figurines from Tepe Sarab in Kermanshah Province among many other ancient artifacts.[16]

The south-western part of Iran was part of the Fertile Crescentwhere most of humanity's first major crops were grown, in villages such as Susa (where a settlement was first founded possibly as early as 4395 cal BC)[24] and settlements such asChogha Mish, dating back to 6800 BC;[1][25] there are 7,000-year-old jars of wine excavated in the Zagros Mountains[26] (now on display at the University of Pennsylvania) and ruins of 7000-year-old settlements such as Tepe Sialk are further testament to that. The two main Neolithic Iranian settlements were the Zayandeh River Culture and Ganj Dareh.

Bronze Age[edit]
Further information: Tepe Sialk, Jiroft culture, Elam, Kura–Araxes culture, Akkadian Empire, Kassites, and Mannaeans
Parts of what is modern-day northwestern Iran was part of theKura–Araxes culture (circa 3400 BC—ca. 2000 BC), that stretched up into the neighboring regions of the Caucasus andAnatolia.[27][28]

Susa is one of the oldest-known settlements of Iran and the world. Based on C14 dating, the time of foundation of the city is as early as 4395 BC,[29] a time that goes beyond the age of civilization in Mesopotamia. The general perception among archeologists is that Susa was an extension of the Sumerian city state of Uruk.[30][31] In its later history, Susa became the capital of Elam, which emerged as a state found 4000 BC.[29] There are also dozens of prehistoric sites across the Iranian plateau pointing to the existence of ancient cultures and urban settlements in the fourth millennium BC,[1] One of the earliest civilizations in Iranian plateau was the Jiroft culture in southeastern Iran in the province of Kerman.

It is one of the most artifact-rich archaeological sites in the Middle East. Archaeological excavations in Jiroft led to the discovery of several objects belonging to the 4th millennium BC.[32] There is a large quantity of objects decorated with highly distinctive engravings of animals, mythological figures, and architectural motifs. The objects and their iconography are unlike anything ever seen before by archeologists. Many are made fromchlorite, a gray-green soft stone; others are in copper, bronze,terracotta, and even lapis lazuli. Recent excavations at the sites have produced the world's earliest inscription which pre-dates Mesopotamian inscriptions.[33][34]

There are records of numerous other ancient civilizations on theIranian Plateau before the emergence of Iranian peoples during the Early Iron Age. The Early Bronze Age saw the rise of urbanization into organized city states and the invention of writing (the Uruk period) in the Near East. While Bronze Age Elammade use of writing from an early time, the Proto-Elamite scriptremains undeciphered, and records from Sumer pertaining to Elam are scarce.

Russian historian Igor M. Diakonoff states that the modern population of the Iranian Plateau are the descendants of mainly non-Persian groups: "It is the autochthones of the Iranian plateau, and not the Proto-Indo-European tribes of Europe, which are, in the main, the ancestors, in the physical sense of the word, of the present-day Iranians."[35]

Early Iron Age[edit]
See also: Neo-Assyrian Empire and Urartu
Records become more tangible with the rise of the Neo-Assyrian Empire and its records of incursions from the Iranian plateau. As early as the 20th century BC, tribes came to the Iranian Plateau from the Pontic–Caspian steppe. The arrival of Iranians on the Iranian plateau forced the Elamites to relinquish one area of their empire after another and to take refuge in Elam, Khuzestan and the nearby area, which only then became coterminous with Elam.[36] Bahman Firuzmandi say that the southern Iranians might be intermixed with the Elamite peoples living in the plateau.[37] By the mid-first millennium BC, Medes, Persians, andParthians populated the Iranian plateau. Until the rise of the Medes, they all remained under Assyrian domination, like the rest of the Near East. In the first half of the first millennium BC, parts of what is now Iranian Azerbaijan were incorporated into Urartu.

Classical Antiquity[edit]

The Medes who lived in an area known as Media (northwestern Iran) and who spoke the Median language. They mainly inhabited the mountainous area of northwestern Iran and the northeastern and eastern region of Mesopotamia and located in the Kermanshah-Hamadan (Ecbatana) region[5] Their emergence in Iran is thought to have occurred between 1000 BC to around 900 BC.
Median Empire
Mādai


Median and Achaemenid Empire (650–330 BC)[edit]
Main articles: Medes and Achaemenid Empire
See also: Greco-Persian Wars
 
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^^^

Genetically (in terms of haplogroups) Arabia, North Africa and most of the Mediterranean is identical in the sense that the same haplogroups are found in all 3 areas. Just with different frequencies.

The National Geographic map I posted is much more accurate.

Besides forget about National Geographic, basically every single DNA test confirms that Saudi Arabians and Egyptians cluster closely. Several users have already posted several sources that confirm this.

Even racist European anthropologists long before DNA was invented grouped Arabids as a subgroup of the Mediterranean people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabid_race

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race

Also this spreadsheet which is much more detailed and from a much bigger sample also show the very close affinity as described before.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q1LKZqeQRS28WjwyAQPs5I7QBUWv3Q3mF9bVpJp6eX0/edit#gid=0

Y-Haplogroups:


World_Map_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroups.png



Overall DNA/genome

Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are next to each other before anyone else.




Some results from your average Arabs (much larger samples too)

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arabworlddnaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arabworlddnaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/arab-tribes/about/background

If anyone was still in doubt and somehow "missed" post 128 and all the previous ones in this thread:

Saudi Arabians:

Paleoafrican: 0% South Asian: 0% West Asian: 27,9% Southeast Asian: 0% Sub-Saharan: 0% Atlantic-Baltic: 0% Red Sea: 34,6% East Asian: 0% Mediterranean: 37.5% Siberian: 0%


Egyptians:


Paleoafrican: 0,6% South Asian: 0% West Asian: 24,4% Southeast Asian: 0,2% Sub-Saharan: 12,2% Atlantic-Baltic: 1% Red Sea: 24% East Asian: 0% Mediterranean: 37.5% Siberian: 0%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q1LKZqeQRS28WjwyAQPs5I7QBUWv3Q3mF9bVpJp6eX0/edit#gid=0

The sample was 12 Egyptians and 20 Saudi Arabians. So not 100% accurate but as I wrote earlier and as every single DNA tests shows, Saudi Arabians and Egyptians cluster with each other very, very closely in every DNA test that I have seen whether public or private. As far as haplogroups the two largest haplogroups in both countries and all Arab countries are J and E.

As far as maternal haplogroups the same ones are found in both KSA/Arabia and Egypt and much of the Arab world.

I have posted by now I believe at least 10 difference sources that confirms this as have other users here.

So people are free to judge on their own now. Let's not even talk about common history, geography, ancient human migrations etc.

In short the conclusion = not similar at all.:lol:

I swear on my mother's life go take this discussion with professors in genetics and they will laugh at you if you suggest that Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are not closely related let alone other Arabs of the region. Or that Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are somehow more closely related with non-Arabs and people that live 1000's of km away from them.

It is an insult against common logic.

Sorry, I cannot take some of the threads on this forum seriously and certain posts of certain members. Wasted enough of my time already on this.

After all we Arabs learnt "a lot in this thread" by a few of those geniuses.

Here is an National Geographic one:

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/

The latter unfortunately does not have data from KSA but they have from Kuwait and if you compare Kuwait with Egypt they are very, very similar.

"EGYPTIAN
populations_Egyptian_575.png


This reference population is based on samples collected from native Egyptians. As ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through southwest Asia. The 65% Mediterranean and 18% Southwest Asian components in Egypt are representative of that ancient migratory route, as well as later migrations from the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East with the spread of agriculture over the past 10,000 years, and migrations in the 7th century with the spread of Islam from the Arabian peninsula. The 14% sub-Saharan African indicates intermixing with African populations to the south."

"KUWAITI
populations_Kuwaiti_575.png


This reference population is based on samples collected from native Kuwaitis and reflects the great genetic diversity of this region, as it was a crossroads for several migratory groups. As some ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through Southwest Asia en route to the rest of Eurasia. Some populations stayed in the Middle East and southwestern Asia, over time developing unique genetic patterns. The 57% Mediterranean and 27% Southwest Asian components found in our reference Kuwaiti population reflect these ancient patterns. The 4% Northern European percentage is representative of some interaction with European populations, either via populations to the northwest or from migrations through the steppe zone to the northeast. The 2% Northeast Asian component likely arrived via the migrations of groups originating in that region, such as the Turks and Mongols. The Silk Road also may have served to disperse east Asian genetic patterns further to the west. Finally, the 8% sub-Saharan African component reflects the relatively close proximity of Kuwait to Africa, and may have been increased by the Arab slave trade during the 8th-19th centuries."

KSA would be even closer to Egypt due to simple geography and the very close ties between Hijaz (most populous region of KSA that has little if nothing in common Eastern Arabia that Kuwait belongs to) and Egypt.

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa

"In a recent publication, Bosch et al. (2001) reported on Y-chromosome variation in populations from northwestern (NW) Africa and the Iberian peninsula. They observed a high degree of genetic homogeneity among the NW African Y chromosomes of Moroccan Arabs, Moroccan Berbers, and Saharawis, leading the authors to hypothesize that “the Arabization and Islamization of NW Africa, starting during the 7th century ad, … [were] cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement” (p. 1023). H71 (Eu10) was found to be the second-most-frequent haplogroup in that area. Following the hypothesis of Semino et al. (2000), the authors suggested that this haplogroup had spread out from the Middle East with the Neolithic wave of advance. Our recent findings (Nebel et al. 2000, 2001), however, suggest that the majority of Eu10 chromosomes in NW Africa are due to recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era (ce).

In the sample of NW Africans (Bosch et al. 2001), 16 (9.1%) of the 176 Y chromosomes studied were of Eu10 (H71 on a haplogroup 9 background). Of these 16 chromosomes, 14 formed a compact microsatellite network: 7 individuals shared a single haplotype, and the haplotypes of the other 7 were one or two mutational steps removed. This low diversity may be indicative of a recent founder effect. Where did these chromosomes come from?

The highest frequency of Eu10 (30%–62.5%) has been observed so far in various Moslem Arab populations in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2000; Nebel et al. 2001). The most frequent Eu10 microsatellite haplotype in NW Africans is identical to a modal haplotype (DYS19-14, DYS388-17, DYS390-23, DYS391-11, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) of Moslem Arabs who live in a small area in the north of Israel, the Galilee (Nebel et al. 2000). This haplotype, which is present in the Galilee at 18.5%, was termed the modal haplotype of the Galilee (MH Galilee) (Nebel et al. 2000). Notably, it is absent from two distinct non-Arab Middle Eastern populations, Jews and Muslim Kurds, both of whom have significant Eu10 frequencies—18% and 12%, respectively (Nebel et al. 2001). Interestingly, this modal haplotype is also the most frequent haplotype (11 [∼41%] of 27 individuals) in the population from the town of Sena, in Yemen (Thomas et al. 2000). Its single-step neighbor is the most common haplotype of the Yemeni Hadramaut sample (5 [∼10%] of 49 chromosomes; Thomas et al. 2000). The presence of this particular modal haplotype at a significant frequency in three separate geographic locales (NW Africa, the Southern Levant, and Yemen) makes independent genetic-drift events unlikely.

It should be noted that the Yemeni samples (Thomas et al. 2000) were not typed for the binary markers (p12f2 and M172) that define Eu10. However, both Yemeni modal haplotypes are present on a haplogroup background compatible with Eu10. These haplotypes carry a DYS388 allele with a high number of repeats (i.e., 17). High repeat numbers of DYS388, ⩾15, were found to occur almost exclusively on Hg9, which comprises Eu9 and Eu10. Furthermore, in a sample of a six Middle Eastern populations, chromosomes with 17 repeats are frequent (40%) in Eu10 and rare (7%) in Eu9 (Nebel et al. 2001).

The term “Arab,” as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century bce (Eph'al 1984). Originally referring to nomads of central and northern Arabia, the term “Arabs” later came to include the sedentary population of the south, which had its own language and culture. The term thus covers two different stocks that became linguistically and culturally unified yet retained consciousness of their discrete origins (Grohmann et al. 1960; Rentz 1960; Caskel 1966, pp. 19–47; Goldziher 1967, pp. 45–97, 164–190; Beeston 1995; also see Peters 1999). Migrations of southern Arabian tribes northwards have been recorded mainly since the 3d century ce. These tribes settled in various places in central and northern Arabia, as well as in the Fertile Crescent, including areas that are now part of Israel (Dussaud 1955; Ricci 1984). The emergence of Islam in the 7th century ce furthered the unification of the Arabian tribal populations. This unified Arab-Islamic community engaged in a large movement of expansion, the Fertile Crescent and Egypt being the first areas to have been conquered. It is very difficult to trace the tribal composition of the Muslim armies, but it is known that tribes of Yemeni origin formed the bulk of those Muslim contingents that conquered Egypt in the middle of the 7th century ce. Egypt was the primary base for raids further west into the Maghrib. The conquest of North Africa was difficult and took a few decades to complete (Abun-Nasr 1987). The region was militarily and administratively attached to Egypt until the beginning of the 8th century ce. Arab tribes of northern origin entered North Africa as well, both as troops and as migrants. A major wave of migration of such tribes, the Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym, occurred during the 11th century ce (Abun-Nasr 1987). Thus, the Arabs, both southern (Yemeni) and northern, added to the heterogeneous Maghribi ethnic melting pot.

Little is known of the origins of the indigenous population of the Maghrib, the Berbers, except that they have always been a composite people. After the 8th century ce, a process of Arabization affected the bulk of the Berbers, while the Arab-Islamic culture and population absorbed local elements as well. Under the unifying framework of Islam, on the one hand, and as a result of the Arab settlement, on the other, a fusion took place that resulted in a new ethnocultural entity all over the Maghrib. In addition, Berber tribes sometimes claimed Arab descent in order to enhance their prestige. For example, the Berber nomadic tribe of the western Sahara, the Lamtuna, claimed descent from one of the South Arabian eponyms, Himyar. One of the chiefs of this Berber tribe, Lamtuna, is sometimes referred to as Saharawi, meaning “one of the nomads” or “one who comes from the Sahara” (Ibn al-Athir 1898, p. 462; Ibn Khallikan 1972, pp. 113, 128–129; Lewicki 1986). In Arabic sources, however, the name Saharawi is seldom used and does not seem to refer to a specific genealogical group. In light of these historical data, it is not surprising to find, among the Berbers and contemporary Saharawis of northern Africa, Y chromosomes that may have been introduced by recurrent waves of invaders from the Arabian Peninsula.

These documented historical events, together with the finding of a particular Eu10 haplotype in Yemenis, Palestinians, and NW Africans, are suggestive of a recent common origin of these chromosomes. Remarkably, the only non-Arabs in whom this haplotype has been observed to date are the Berbers (Bosch et al. 2001). It appears that the Eu10 chromosome pool in NW Africa is derived not only from early Neolithic dispersions but also from recent expansions from the Arabian peninsula.

American Society of Human Genetics"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379148/


Also I was not aware of their being an "Arab" or "North African" genome considering the fact that all haplogroups predate all living ethnic groups by millennia and given that all ethnic groups are social constructs.

Anyway this runs contrary to ground realities which show the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)

afip85.png


Basically across the entire Arab world (which shares a millennia long common Semitic and Afro-Asiatic history and ancestry that predates the Neolithic period and all existing ethnic groups in the Arab world) the same haplogroups are found. The only difference is their frequency but Arabs cluster with each other more than any other people on all genetic tests which is not strange given history.


Genetics

Haplogroup J and E1b1b are the most frequent Y-DNA haplogroups in the Arab world. E1b1b is the most frequent paternal clade among the populations in the western part of the Arab world (Maghreb, Nile Valley and Horn of Africa), whereas haplogroup J is the most frequent paternal clade toward the east (Arabian peninsula and Near East). Other less common haplogroups are R1a, R1b, G, I, L and T.[304][305][306][307][308][309][310][311][312][313][314][315][316]


J-M267

J-M172

E-M215

Listed here are the human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups in Arabian peninsula, Mashriq/Levant, Maghreb and Nile Valley.[317][318][319][320][321][322][323] Yemeni Arabs J(82.3%), E1b1b (12.9%) and E1b1a (3.2%).[324][325] Saudi Arabs J1 (58%), E1b1b(7.6%), E1b1a (7.6%), R1a (5.1%), T (5.1%), G (3.2%) and L (1.9%).[326][327] Emirati Arabs J (45.1%), E1b1b (11.6%), R1a (7.3%), E1b1a (5.5%), T (4.9%), R1b (4.3%) and L (3%).[324] Omani Arabs J (47.9%), E1b1b (15.7%), R1a (9.1%), T (8.3%), E1b1a (7.4%), R1b (1.7%), G (1.7%) and L (0.8%).[328] Qatari Arabs J (66.7%), R1a (6.9%), E1b1b (5.6%), E1b1a (2.8%), G (2.8%) and L (2.8%).[329][330] Lebanese Arabs J (45.2%), E1b1b (25.8%), R1a (9.7%), R1b (6.4%), G, I and I (3.2%), (3.2%), (3.2%).[331] Syrian Arabs J (58.3%),[332][333] E1b1b (12.0%), I (5.0%), R1a (10.0%) and R1b 15.0%.[331][333] Palestinian Arabs J (55.2%), E1b1b (20.3%), R1b (8.4%), I(6.3%), G (7%), R1a and T (1.4%), (1.4%).[334][335] Jordanian Arabs J (43.8%), E1b1b (26%), R1b (17.8%), G (4.1%), I (3.4%) and R1a (1.4%).[336] Iraqi Arabs J (50.6%), E1b1b (10.8%), R1b (10.8%), R1a (6.9%) and T (5.9%).[337][338] Egyptian Arabs E1b1b (36.7%) and J (32%), G (8.8%), T (8.2% R1b (4.1%), E1b1a (2.8%) and I(0.7%).[319][339] Sudanese Arabs J (47.1%), E1b1b (16.3%), R1b (15.7%) and I (3.13%).[340][341] Moroccan Arabs E1b1b (75.5%) and J1 (20.4%).[342][343] Tunisian ArabsE1b1b (49.3%), J1 (35.8%), R1b (6.8%) and E1b1a (1.4%).[344] Algerian Arabs E1b1b (54%), J1 (35%), R1b (13%).[344] Libyan Arabs E1b1b (35.88%), J (30.53%), E1b1a (8.78%), G (4.20%), R1a/R1b (3.43%) and E (1.53%).[345][346]

The mtDNA haplogroup J has been observed at notable frequencies among overall populations in the Arab world.[347] The maternal clade R0 reaches its highest frequency in the Arabian peninsula,[348] while K and T(specifically subclade T2) is more common in the Levant.[347] In the Nile Valley and Horn of Africa, haplogroups N1and M1;[348] in the Maghreb, haplogroups H1 and U6 are more significant.[349]


There are four principal West Eurasian autosomal DNA components that characterize the populations in the Arab world: the Arabian, Levantine, Coptic and Maghrebi components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#Genetics

Another thing, Arabs and Berbers are closely related people and where that long before the Arab conquests, expansion and Islam. As all genetic tests confirm. Let alone linguistic and cultural similarities.

Haplogroup J and E are those that dominate the Arab world and surprise, surprise, those two haplogroups are found at its highest frequencies in all as in all, Arab countries and populations.


Not only that almost everyone in the Arab world identifies as an Arab and follows Arab culture, excluding closely related fellow Semitic and Afro-Asiatic peoples, which is the most important thing, even if we assume that there was no genetic relation, which is obviously the case.

You go and tell an Libyan Arab that he is not an Arab and see the reaction, lol.

We share language, Islamic history as well as ancient pre-Islamic history, ancestry, culture, religion (s), geography, cuisine, climate and we look alike, excluding our Afro-Arab minorities.

I guess more than 99% of all other ethnic groups.

Case closed.

So ignore the diarrhea @EgyptianAmerican @The SC and I know that you agree with my posts and the ground realities as you have thanked them and also written similar things which all are based on ground realities, DNA tests and history.
 
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To cut the long story short, the theory of evolution was proposed by Charles Darwin and if you look deep into the man and the cult he was associated it, it is the same lot, Satanist, the secret society of freemasonry. By accepting evolution, one is directly contradicting creation of Adam and Eve by Allah. The agenda is clear. To negate the creation of Adam, the act which got Satan expelled from heaven and from that day onwards he became the number one enemy of mankind. This evolution theory directly challenge Allah. The earth creation is separate from mankind. There were other sentient being before humanity who were created by Allah like Jins and Angels. Infact jins were the Khalifa of Allah on Earth until they screwd up. Then came the humans. Humans are not the first to walk on the planet. Which explains the other "structures" or "drawings" which are attributed to mankind. I am sure you are familiar by Solomon (AS) and how he commanded the jins to build structures for him.

Bottom line is, be very careful when talking about theory of evolution as unintentionally , without the knowledge and background, you are treading a very fine line between Iman and Kuffar.
One has to believe in evolution, it is an obvious phenomena, but not necessarily the Darwinian one of the Ape origin of Man, The Quran says that One day of Allah (SWT) is worth (represents) a thousand years of yours (humans)..
 
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Think and believe what you want, that is your right, I am just not interested in debating anything with an Indian , sorry,there is no affinity in your debates nor anything interesting..You just want to believe that Hindus are liked by Arabs more than Pakistanis and Chinese, which is not the case..
I am Muslim, do you expect me to defend hindus who won't miss any occasion to bash Muslims. Islam, Arabs and GCC? not open to debates..

No one is begging you love any one..You are simply trolling about Hindus and Indian...By your posts and quality of writing, every one can distinguish if you are Arab or a Pakistani. .Keep it up to yourself...The point is, do not drag Hindus or Indian unnecessarily to such a good informative thread....

@Saif al-Arab ...Your contribution to this post is qualitative...It is a nice read for all of us.
 
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IVC predates them all by thousands of years. Speak to any Islamic scholar and at max they will give you 10k years from Adam (AS) to present day humanity. There is no other civilization which fits the bill then Indus which qualify as the nation of Noah. The fact that all of it despite being three times bigger and powerful then Babylon and Egypt combined, to be erased like that and be ten foot underground, erased from human memory and only to be discovered by mere accident, are these not ample proofs? Do you know what Mohenjodaro means?
I have discussed that in other older threads on IVC,, you can visit those threads they were extensive..

No one is begging you love any one..You are simply trolling about Hindus and Indian...By your posts and quality of writing, every one can distinguish if you are Arab or a Pakistani. .Keep it up to yourself...The point is, do not drag Hindus or Indian unnecessarily to such a good informative thread....

@Saif al-Arab ...Your contribution to this post is qualitative...It is a nice read for all of us.
The girl was bashing the GCC and Islamic societies at every occasion and agreeing with everyone else who was doing it,, mostly hindus.. So I said she might be a Hindu girl hiding behind a Kuwaiti flag..what is itching you? You are the ones known for trolling here in every thread, so who wants to read your bad English and negative thoughts that you spill all over the place.. I am sure you are projecting your shortcomings in you writing styles and you English abilities but mainly your human almost non existent qualities.. You can keep trolling to know my origins, I am just a Muslim, a moderate one at that..But you can't even stand moderate Muslims, So what is between us.. do you want insults, or isn't it better to not converse with you at all.. because all you do is bash, troll..insult and derail threads.. The words India or hindus belong to the dictionary, I wasn't bashing India or Hindus, but I might start.. just for fun!
 
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Dude stop, just because your civilization is "bigger" which no doubt it was does not make it older. You are acting delusional, the vast majority of Historians and archeologists agree that Egypt is far older then Indus. Nothing is wrong with that and that does not make Indus any worse then it was before.

But acting like your civilization "civilized" mine when we are far older then you is ridiculous and absolutely insane. I suggest you stop at this delusion at once.

Your evidence is off of Christian fundamentalist Young creationism which has been debunked over and over again. So stop.

The Quran supports REAL science, which is Evolution and that the Earth is not 10,000 years old.

Only Idiot christians believe that dumb logic.


Scientists: Geological evidence shows the Great Sphinx is 800,000 years old
http://www.ancient-code.com/scienti...e-shows-the-great-sphinx-is-800000-years-old/


What a moron!! Listen kiddo, I dont give a shit to your tiny dIck syndrome. For us you lot did create your own civilization but are a inferior one to the ones we created, not only in time line but in grandeur as well. This has been proven by many archaeologist, there is nothing left to discuss or argue. just live with it.

Where the F you are coming with this Christian non sense? Put your reading glasses on and go again through my replies. Its you who need to check your Iman when you start bullshiting about theory of evolution. Even the scientist are now questioning the Darwin theory of evolution. There is a "Chemical theory" along side the theory of the "creator" in modern science.

Quran simply tell us the Adam was created by Allah. Allah breath the soul in Adam. Adam lived in heaven until he was expelled down to earth for his disobedience. There is no such thing like a tadpole will come out of a pond and will transform in a monkey with passage of time which in turn will turn into a human. This is one the biggest kuffar which has corrupted minds of many Muslims as well and you seems to be one of those idiots. Understand what are the implication of Darwinism, its nothing more then satanist agenda which negate the creation of Adam, and then fight between good and evil which began afterwards. Allah warned in Quran that satan is your open enemy. Satan jealousy and hatred for mankind was trigger for this vary event, which is the creation of Adam and satan subsequent refusal to bow down out of jealousy. Theory of evolution and those who believe in it are nothing but the mouth pieces of satan.

Sphinx created 800000 years ago? LOL.


You need to sit down with your local mutfi, Alim or any Islamic scholar and tell them that you think humans existed anything above 10000 years ago. And see what they say to you. Dont beleive me, just go and ask yourself. I dont want to keep on repeating myself here.

One has to believe in evolution, it is an obvious phenomena, but not necessarily the Darwinian one of the Ape origin of Man, The Quran says that One day of Allah (SWT) is worth (represents) a thousand years of yours (humans)..

I am not sure how your are representing this Surah as the proof of evolution?

A father can be 5 foot in height yet his childern can grow to be 6 foot, taller then him. Would this class as evolution. NO. because the specie is the same, i.e Human. If Adam was 17 feet tall and now we are generally between 5 to 6 foot tall, doesnt mean we have evolved in some other specie. We are as human as he was. There is no evolution as far as humans are concerned. The rest is irrelevant.
 
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@Saif al-Arab Haplogroups have nothing to do with modern-day social constructs such as ethnicity. Haplogroup J, for example, spread across the MENA region tens of thousands of years ago, during the end of the last glacial period (i.e. the Ice Age). There were no "Arabs" or Semites during the Ice Age.

The modern-day language families came a lot later.

Egypt is geographically situated between northwest Africa and southwest Asia, therefore it comes as no surprise that the vast majority of modern-day Egyptians can trace their genetic origins back to northwest Africa and southwest Asia. They can also trace their genetic origins back to southern Europe and sub-Saharan Africa, by the way.

Take a look at the autosomal DNA composition of North Africans:

image

image

^^Blue and sky blue represent northwest African components, purple represents south European components, green represents Mesopotamian and Trans-Jordanian components, and orange and red represent sub-Saharan African components.

Haplogroups J1 and J2 are Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups. They only represent the paternal lineages, and they have nothing to do with ethnicity or "Arabness". For one thing, they mostly spread across the region during the Ice Age. Moreover, haplogroups J1 and J2 did not even originate in Arabia. Haplogroup J1 originated in Trans-Jordan (i.e. the southern Levant), whereas haplogroup J2 originated in upper Mesopotamia. These areas were the urheimat of language groups that predate proto-Arabic by thousands of years. This is why, as I showed you on the previous pages, Egyptians were genetically very similar to Syrians, Iranians and even Turks. That's because part of their origins can be traced back to upper Mesopotamia, where haplogroup J2 emerged tens of thousands of years ago. There were no Indo-European languages or Semitic languages or even Turkic languages back then. This occurred long before the Neolithic period.

Another thing you have to consider is that haplogroups tend to mutate and branch out into more subgroups known as "subclades". For example, haplogroup J2 has mutated into different subclades over the course of thousands of years. The mutations that occurred in the Arabian Peninsula differ from those that occurred in places such as the Levant and the Fertile Crescent, which suggests that these populations are distinct from one another.

You're making the mistake of mixing science with nationalism. This can lead to a lot of pseudo-scientific theories. Data is available to everyone, but the key is to be able to read/interpret data properly.

Just my two cents.
 
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What a moron!! Listen kiddo, I dont give a shit to your tiny dIck syndrome. For us you lot did create your own civilization but are a inferior one to the ones we created, not only in time line but in grandeur as well. This has been proven by many archaeologist, there is nothing left to discuss or argue. just live with it.

Listen my friend, I think you need to cut out the personal insults since it only makes you look more petty. My ancestors civilization is not "inferior" thank you very much. No civilization is inferior, you can go to all the civilizations in the world from the Aztecs, and Inca's in North and South America to all the way to the Indus and everything in-between is equal. Acting like someone else civilization is worse then yours is not only stupid but also incredibly weird.

There is not a lot to discuss due to the fact that Egyptians have been here farrrrr longer then the Indus. I have already proven this. Why do you keep denying?

Where the F you are coming with this Christian non sense? Put your reading glasses on and go again through my replies. Its you who need to check your Iman when you start bullshiting about theory of evolution. Even the scientist are now questioning the Darwin theory of evolution. There is a "Chemical theory" along side the theory of the "creator" in modern science.

Young-Creationism, the theory that the Earth is 10,000 years old and that humanity started after Noah's flood is a Christian idea, it was spread by christians, preached by Christians until it was proven FALSE. Evolution is undeniable,irrefutable. The Earth is Millions and Billions of years old,Humanity is Millions of years old. That is fact and that is what the Quran supports unlike the bible which attempts to refute it constantly but keeps failing.


I suggest you read up on Evolution because it's a real thing.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php

http://io9.gizmodo.com/8-scientific-discoveries-that-prove-evolution-is-real-1729902558

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/

http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reasons-why-evolution-is-true/



It's real, now get over it.


Quran simply tell us the Adam was created by Allah. Allah breath the soul in Adam. Adam lived in heaven until he was expelled down to earth for his disobedience. There is no such thing like a tadpole will come out of a pond and will transform in a monkey with passage of time which in turn will turn into a human. This is one the biggest kuffar which has corrupted minds of many Muslims as well and you seems to be one of those idiots. Understand what are the implication of Darwinism, its nothing more then satanist agenda which negate the creation of Adam, and then fight between good and evil which began afterwards. Allah warned in Quran that satan is your open enemy. Satan jealousy and hatred for mankind was trigger for this vary event, which is the creation of Adam and satan subsequent refusal to bow down out of jealousy. Theory of evolution and those who believe in it are nothing but the mouth pieces of satan.

Please read this

EVOLUTION IN ISLAM
http://www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/evolution-in-islam-overview.html


Sphinx created 800000 years ago? LOL.

The Earth is literally billions of years old and you find that a Sphinx was created 800,000 years ago crazy? LOL, what's next:rofl:? You will tell me that Evolution is fa... Oh :undecided:



You need to sit down with your local mutfi, Alim or any Islamic scholar and tell them that you think humans existed anything above 10000 years ago. And see what they say to you. Dont beleive me, just go and ask yourself. I dont want to keep on repeating myself here.

I don't go to Muftis for science, I go to Imams,Scholars or Muftis for Spiritual guidance, nothing more. It should be a general rule of thumb to not go to your spiritual leader for Science advice especially considering that there are some crazy imams who actually support the Taliban or Al Qaeda.







 
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Listen my friend, I think you need to cut out the personal insults since it only makes you look more petty. My ancestors civilization is not "inferior" thank you very much. No civilization is inferior, you can go to all the civilizations in the world from the Aztecs, and Inca's in North and South America to all the way to the Indus and everything in-between is equal. Acting like someone else civilization is worse then yours is not only stupid but also incredibly weird.

There is not a lot to discuss due to the fact that Egyptians have been here farrrrr longer then the Indus. I have already proven this. Why do you keep denying?

The problem with your kind is that you wont accept the reality because of indoctrination and here I am giving you all the proofs with archaeology confirming that Indus indeed is the oldest and granddaddy of all civilization, including yours, YET you keep on harping non sense. Its getting boring to be honest. I am not saying this, its the people whose bread and butter is research in ancient history, the archaeology, who are saying this. I cant help you, if you deaf dumb and blind.

Young-Creationism, the theory that the Earth is 10,000 years old and that humanity started after Noah's flood is a Christian idea, it was spread by christians, preached by Christians until it was proven FALSE. Evolution is undeniable,irrefutable. The Earth is Millions and Billions of years old,Humanity is Millions of years old. That is fact and that is what the Quran supports unlike the bible which attempts to refute it constantly but keeps failing.

Go back and READ my previous messages to you. Humanity right from Adam to present day is not more then 10K years old, NOT the earth itself. I am NOT talking about the earth but the humanity!! God you are thick.

What is your idea of "evolution"? You believe we came from a tadpole who jumped out of a pond millions of years ago , evolved into monkeys and monkeys turned into Humans? Let me hear your clearly. Your ignorance and insistance upon is nothing but foolishness. There is NO evolution is Islam. We beleive in "kun faya kun" (be and it is). No ifs and buts. No grey areas. Humans are best of Allah's creations (Ashraf ul Makhlukat), he didnt "evolved" them, he created him in perfection.

Since you cant grab the concept of other sentient beings like Jinns present on the earth as Khalifa of Allah before the creation of mankind, its hard for you comprehend and understand what earth was like during that time.

Listen to the following with open mind, it may Insha Allah open your mind. These are Islamic scholars talking about the subject under discussion.

 
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I am not sure how your are representing this Surah as the proof of evolution?

A father can be 5 foot in height yet his childern can grow to be 6 foot, taller then him. Would this class as evolution. NO. because the specie is the same, i.e Human. If Adam was 17 feet tall and now we are generally between 5 to 6 foot tall, doesnt mean we have evolved in some other specie. We are as human as he was. There is no evolution as far as humans are concerned. The rest is irrelevant.
You can see evolution in humans through colour and features adaptations to natural environ.. whites with small nose for breathing in the cold, white skin to absorb maximum sun rays, since they live in the North..adapted to the cold...breathing and not enough sun.. Blacks, large nostrils, black pigmentation.. breading in the heat..less affected by the sun rays.. and everything in between these features is related to the environ of living.. Just follow this path of evolution- adaptation since the first Man from Africa, meaning black and now you have all shades of skin pigmentation till white!!!
Obviously this took thousands of years for humans to achieve..
 
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The problem with your kind is that you wont accept the reality because of indoctrination and here I am giving you all the proofs with archaeology confirming that Indus indeed is the oldest and granddaddy of all civilization, including yours, YET you keep on harping non sense. Its getting boring to be honest. I am not saying this, its the people whose bread and butter is research in ancient history, the archaeology, who are saying this. I cant help you, if you deaf dumb and blind.

All the evidence I show you and you are still in denial... Fine so be it.

Continue living in your fantasy land.

Go back and READ my previous messages to you. Humanity right from Adam to present day is not more then 10K years old, NOT the earth itself. I am NOT talking about the earth but the humanity!! God you are thick.

What is your idea of "evolution"? You believe we came from a tadpole who jumped out of a pond millions of years ago , evolved into monkeys and monkeys turned into Humans? Let me hear your clearly. Your ignorance and insistance upon is nothing but foolishness. There is NO evolution is Islam. We beleive in "kun faya kun" (be and it is). No ifs and buts. No grey areas. Humans are best of Allah's creations (Ashraf ul Makhlukat), he didnt "evolved" them, he created him in perfection.

Since you cant grab the concept of other sentient beings like Jinns present on the earth as Khalifa of Allah before the creation of mankind, its hard for you comprehend and understand what earth was like during that time.

Listen to the following with open mind, it may Insha Allah open your mind. These are Islamic scholars talking about the subject under discussion.

How many times do we have to go over the fact that Islam supports evolution before you understand? Stop acting Christian, I know you still want to suck up to those British christians by denying your own religion but don't. Christianity is wrong, Humanity is not 10k years old.



Evidence from molecular biology


The closest living relatives of humans are chimpanzees (genus Pan) and gorillas (genus Gorilla).[22] With the sequencing of both the human and chimpanzee genome, current estimates of similarity between human and chimpanzee DNA sequences range between 95% and 99%.[22][23][24] By using the technique called a molecular clock which estimates the time required for the number of divergent mutations to accumulate between two lineages, the approximate date for the split between lineages can be calculated. The gibbons (Hylobatidae) and orangutans (genus Pongo) were the first groups to split from the line leading to the humans, then gorillas (genus Gorilla) followed by the chimpanzees (genus Pan). The splitting date between human and chimpanzee lineages is placed around 4–8 million years ago during the late Miocene epoch.[25][26] During this split, chromosome 2 was formed from two other chromosomes, leaving humans with only 23 pairs of chromosomes, compared to 24 for the other apes.[27][28]


Amazing Evidence: The Human Species is Hundreds of Millions of Years Old!
http://humansarefree.com/2011/04/amazing-evidence-human-specie-is.html

A 1.8 million year old skull indicates there may have been just one human species on Earth at that time
http://www.iflscience.com/plants-an...s-there-may-have-been-just-one-human-species/

Islam is not yours nor anyone else's to say No ifs and buts idiot. I know you feel insecure but Islam clearly backs the real science which is evolution. Screw the idiots who say otherwise, they are trying to make islam go backwards.

EVOLUTION IN ISLAM





 
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E1B1B DNA maps:

View attachment 369971

J2 DNA map:

View attachment 369970

J1 DNA map:

View attachment 369973

^^^ Egypians are 'Arabs' only if we have brain size of pea.


_____________________________________________________

Iran Prehistory


A gold cup at the National Museum of Iran, dating from the first half of 1st millennium BC.

Arg-e Bam

Chogha Zanbil is one of the few extant ziggurats outside of Mesopotamia and is considered to be the best preserved example in the world.
Further information: Archaeological sites in Iran and Prehistory of Iran
Further information: Tepe Sialk, Jiroft culture, and Shahr-e Sukhteh
Paleolithic[edit]
The earliest archaeological artifacts in Iran were found in the Kashafrud and Ganj Parsites that are thought to date back to 100,000 years ago in the Middle Paleolithic.[15]Mousterian stone tools made by Neandertalshave also been found.[16] There are more cultural remains of Neandertals dating back to the Middle Paleolithic period, which mainly have been found in the Zagros region and fewer in central Iran at sites such as Kobeh, Kunji, Bisitun Cave, Tamtama, Warwasi, andYafteh Cave.[17] In 1949, a Neanderthal radiuswas discovered by Carleton S. Coon in Bisitun Cave.[18] Evidence for Upper Paleolithic andEpipaleolithic periods are known mainly from the Zagros Mountains in the caves of Kermanshah and Khorramabad and a few number of sites in the Alborz and Central Iran.

Neolithic to Chalcolithic[edit]
Early agricultural communities such as Chogha Golan in 10,000 BC[19][20] along with settlements such as Chogha Bonut (the earliest village in Elam) in 8000 BC,[21][22] began to flourish in and around the Zagros Mountains region in western Iran.[23] Around about the same time, the earliest-known clay vessels and modeled human and animal terracotta figurines were produced at Ganj Dareh, also in western Iran.[23] There are also 10,000-year-old human and animal figurines from Tepe Sarab in Kermanshah Province among many other ancient artifacts.[16]

The south-western part of Iran was part of the Fertile Crescentwhere most of humanity's first major crops were grown, in villages such as Susa (where a settlement was first founded possibly as early as 4395 cal BC)[24] and settlements such asChogha Mish, dating back to 6800 BC;[1][25] there are 7,000-year-old jars of wine excavated in the Zagros Mountains[26] (now on display at the University of Pennsylvania) and ruins of 7000-year-old settlements such as Tepe Sialk are further testament to that. The two main Neolithic Iranian settlements were the Zayandeh River Culture and Ganj Dareh.

Bronze Age[edit]
Further information: Tepe Sialk, Jiroft culture, Elam, Kura–Araxes culture, Akkadian Empire, Kassites, and Mannaeans
Parts of what is modern-day northwestern Iran was part of theKura–Araxes culture (circa 3400 BC—ca. 2000 BC), that stretched up into the neighboring regions of the Caucasus andAnatolia.[27][28]

Susa is one of the oldest-known settlements of Iran and the world. Based on C14 dating, the time of foundation of the city is as early as 4395 BC,[29] a time that goes beyond the age of civilization in Mesopotamia. The general perception among archeologists is that Susa was an extension of the Sumerian city state of Uruk.[30][31] In its later history, Susa became the capital of Elam, which emerged as a state found 4000 BC.[29] There are also dozens of prehistoric sites across the Iranian plateau pointing to the existence of ancient cultures and urban settlements in the fourth millennium BC,[1] One of the earliest civilizations in Iranian plateau was the Jiroft culture in southeastern Iran in the province of Kerman.

It is one of the most artifact-rich archaeological sites in the Middle East. Archaeological excavations in Jiroft led to the discovery of several objects belonging to the 4th millennium BC.[32] There is a large quantity of objects decorated with highly distinctive engravings of animals, mythological figures, and architectural motifs. The objects and their iconography are unlike anything ever seen before by archeologists. Many are made fromchlorite, a gray-green soft stone; others are in copper, bronze,terracotta, and even lapis lazuli. Recent excavations at the sites have produced the world's earliest inscription which pre-dates Mesopotamian inscriptions.[33][34]

There are records of numerous other ancient civilizations on theIranian Plateau before the emergence of Iranian peoples during the Early Iron Age. The Early Bronze Age saw the rise of urbanization into organized city states and the invention of writing (the Uruk period) in the Near East. While Bronze Age Elammade use of writing from an early time, the Proto-Elamite scriptremains undeciphered, and records from Sumer pertaining to Elam are scarce.

Russian historian Igor M. Diakonoff states that the modern population of the Iranian Plateau are the descendants of mainly non-Persian groups: "It is the autochthones of the Iranian plateau, and not the Proto-Indo-European tribes of Europe, which are, in the main, the ancestors, in the physical sense of the word, of the present-day Iranians."[35]

Early Iron Age[edit]
See also: Neo-Assyrian Empire and Urartu
Records become more tangible with the rise of the Neo-Assyrian Empire and its records of incursions from the Iranian plateau. As early as the 20th century BC, tribes came to the Iranian Plateau from the Pontic–Caspian steppe. The arrival of Iranians on the Iranian plateau forced the Elamites to relinquish one area of their empire after another and to take refuge in Elam, Khuzestan and the nearby area, which only then became coterminous with Elam.[36] Bahman Firuzmandi say that the southern Iranians might be intermixed with the Elamite peoples living in the plateau.[37] By the mid-first millennium BC, Medes, Persians, andParthians populated the Iranian plateau. Until the rise of the Medes, they all remained under Assyrian domination, like the rest of the Near East. In the first half of the first millennium BC, parts of what is now Iranian Azerbaijan were incorporated into Urartu.

Classical Antiquity[edit]

The Medes who lived in an area known as Media (northwestern Iran) and who spoke the Median language. They mainly inhabited the mountainous area of northwestern Iran and the northeastern and eastern region of Mesopotamia and located in the Kermanshah-Hamadan (Ecbatana) region[5] Their emergence in Iran is thought to have occurred between 1000 BC to around 900 BC.
Median Empire
Mādai


Median and Achaemenid Empire (650–330 BC)[edit]
Main articles: Medes and Achaemenid Empire
See also: Greco-Persian Wars
Arabs are better than you Iranians.
 
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