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THE MYTH OF NORTH AFRICA AS ARAB,UNCOVERED

I understand your pov, but tunisians of the coast are very very different from the inner country. just see our president or just come to sfax/sousse/tunis nabeul or anyother coastal city and you'll see. and that is only tunisia, see the algerians, you'll think they are europeans. and libyans are mostly from sub saharans ppl

That's because your president has distant Sardinian roots.

Born in Sidi Bou Said to a family from the Tunisian landed élite, he is a great-grandson of Ismail Caïd Essebsi, a Sardiniankidnapped by Tunisian corsairs along the coasts of Sardinia at the beginning of the nineteenth century who became a mamluk leader raised with the ruling family. He was later recognized as a free man when he became an important member of the government.[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beji_Caid_Essebsi

He is atypical for Tunisia and the Arab world/Middle East but you can find such people in every Arab country. It does not necessary mean non-Arab ancestry but in this case it actually does.

Ben Ali is much more representative:

upload_2017-1-20_0-49-36.jpeg

As for the coastal divide, we have that as well in KSA but to be honest with you, those are not really that big differences.

Anyway most of the Arabian genes in Tunisia can be found in the coastal regions especially Sousse and other coastal regions of Tunisia while the more robust nomads (Berber as well as Arab) inhabite the Center and South. Most people in the countryside, more so if they live in desert environments, tend to be a bit darker although in KSA/Arabia you can find even red-haired Bedouins.

Here was the previous Tunisian president btw:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moncef_Marzouki

Obviously an Afro-Arab/Berber/Arab mixture.

Tunisia's first president with an more "Arab" look.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habib_Bourguiba

Can you see my point now?

Here you have King Abdullah:



and here you have King Salman:



They have the same father but different mothers.

Here is one of King Salman's sons:



Here is Prince Bandar whose mother was an Afro-Arab from Yemen:



His late father (Prince Sultan)



Prince Bandar's half-brother:



You tell me if they are identical.

So even within the families among Arabs looks can vary a lot.
 
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IVC predates them all by thousands of years. Speak to any Islamic scholar and at max they will give you 10k years from Adam (AS) to present day humanity.

Stop it bro, Humanity is not 10k years old.

Young Earth creationism directly contradicts the scientific consensus of the scientific community. A 2006 joint statement of InterAcademy Panel on International Issues (IAP) by 68 national and international science academies enumerated the scientific facts that young Earth creationism contradicts, in particular that the universe, the Earth, and life are billions of years old, that each has undergone continual change over those billions of years, and that life on Earth has evolved from a common primordial origin into the diverse forms observed in the fossil record and present today.[7]Evolutionary theory remains the only explanation that fully accounts for all the observations, measurements, data, and evidence discovered in the fields of biology, paleontology, molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, and others.[50][51][52][53][54]

As such, young Earth creationism is dismissed by the academic and the scientific communities.

The vast majority of scientists refute young Earth creationism. Around the start of the 19th century mainstream science abandoned the concept that Earth was younger than millions of years.[124]Measurements of biological, chemical, geological, and astronomical timescales differ from YEC's estimates of Earth's age by six orders of magnitude (that is, by factor of a million times). Scientific estimates of the age of the earliest pottery discovered, the oldest known trees, the ice cores, and layers of silt deposit in Lake Suigetsu are all significantly older than the oldest YEC estimate of Earth's age. YEC's theories are further contradicted by scientists' ability to observe galaxies billions of light years away.

Spokespersons for the scientific community have generally regarded claims that YEC has a scientific basis as being religiously motivated pseudoscience, because young Earth creationists only look for evidence to support their preexisting belief that the Bible is a literal description of the development of the Universe. In 1997, a poll by the Gallup organization showed that 5% of U.S. adults with professional degrees in science took a young Earth creationist view. In the aforementioned poll, 40% of the same group said they believed that life, including humans, had evolved over millions of years, but that God guided this process, a view described as theistic evolution, while 55% held a view of "naturalistic evolution" in which no God took part in this process.[125] Some scientists (such as Hugh Ross and Gerald Schroeder) who believe in creationism are known to subscribe to other forms, such as old Earth creationism, which posits an act of creation that took place millions or billions of years ago, with variations on the timing of the creation of mankind.

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Muslims scholars do not believe in Young Earth creationism. Islamic views of the Bible vary. In recent years, a movement has begun to emerge in some Muslim countries promoting themes that have been characteristic of Christian creationists. This stance has received some criticism, due to claims that the Quran and Bible are incompatible.[2][3][4]

The influential historiographer and historian Ibn Khaldun wrote in his famous book the Muqaddimah or Prolegomena ("Introduction") of the "gradual process of creation":[5]

"One should then look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word "connection" with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the next group. The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and to reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of the monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man after (the world of monkeys). This is as far as our (physical) observation extends."

Khalid Anees, of the Islamic Society of Britain, has discussed the relationship between Islam and evolution:[6]

"Islam also has its own school of Evolutionary creationism/Theistic evolutionism, which holds that mainstream scientific analysis of the origin of the universe is supported by the Quran. Many Muslims believe in evolutionary creationism, especially among Sunni and ShiaMuslims and the Liberal movements within Islam. Among scholars of Islam İbrahim Hakkı of Erzurum who lived in Erzurum then Ottoman Empire now Republic of Turkey in the 18th century is famous for stating that 'between plants and animals there is sponge, and, between animals and humans there is monkey'."[7]

A research paper published by the Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research wrote that there is not a consensus among scholars on how to respond to the theory of evolution, and it is not clear whether the scholars are even qualified to give a response.[8]

The verse,"...and We made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"(21:30), is believed by evolutionary Muslims to refer to humans evolving in the oceans millions of years ago, as suggested by modern evolution.[9]



In the 19th century a scholar of Islamic revival, Jamal-al-Din al-Afghānī agreed with Darwin that life will compete with other life in order to succeed. He also believed that there was competition in the realm of ideas similar to that of nature. However, he believed explicitly that life was created by God;[10] Darwin did not discuss the origin of life, saying only "Probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some primordial form, into which life was first breathed".[11]

Islamic scholars Ghulam Ahmed Pervez,[12] Edip Yüksel,[13][14] and T.O. Shanavas in his book, Islamic Theory of Evolution: the Missing Link between Darwin and the Origin of Species[15] say that there is no contradiction between the scientific theory of evolution and Quran's numerous references to the emergence of life in the universe.

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Movement's view of evolution is that of universal acceptance, albeit divinely designed. The movement actively promotes god-directed "evolution". Over the course of several decades the movement issued various publications in support of the scientific concepts behind evolution.[16]

In Turkey, important scholars strove to accommodate the theory of evolution in Islamic scripture during the first decades of the Turkish Republic; their approach to the theory defended Islamic belief in the face of scientific theories of their times.[17]

Are you a Christian or a Muslim?
 
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That's because your president has distant Sardinian roots.

Born in Sidi Bou Said to a family from the Tunisian landed élite, he is a great-grandson of Ismail Caïd Essebsi, a Sardiniankidnapped by Tunisian corsairs along the coasts of Sardinia at the beginning of the nineteenth century who became a mamluk leader raised with the ruling family. He was later recognized as a free man when he became an important member of the government.[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beji_Caid_Essebsi

He is atypical for Tunisia and the Arab world/Middle East but you can find such people in every Arab country. It does not necessary mean non-Arab ancestry but in this case it actually does.

Ben Ali is much more representative:

View attachment 369925

As for the coastal divide, we have that as well in KSA but to be honest with you, those are not really that big differences.

Anyway most of the Arabian genes in Tunisia can be found in the coastal regions especially Sousse and other coastal regions of Tunisia while the more robust nomads (Berber as well as Arab) inhabite the Center and South. Most people in the countryside, more so if they live in desert environments, tend to be a bit darker although in KSA/Arabia you can find even red-haired Bedouins.

Here was the previous Tunisian president btw:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moncef_Marzouki

Obviously an Afro-Arab/Berber/Arab mixture.

here our first one : Bourguiba

bourguiba_habib03.jpg


and what is Tunisia? except from the old berbers natives, all who came after was from elsewhere, phoenicia/andalosi/romanians/greek /Turks/arabs etc...
 
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here our first one : Bourguiba

bourguiba_habib03.jpg


and what is Tunisia? except from the old berbers natives, all who came after was from elsewhere, phoenicia/andalosi/romanians/greek /Turks/arabs etc...

I know but my point is that Arabs can look very different even within the same family and that it is not strange that city dwellers can look different from people living in the countryside more so if we are talking about desert regions. However that does not mean that they are different people. They just have different looks. As your 5 presidents demonstrate clearly.
 
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Listen my friend, I know it hurts but that's simply not true. Art that was carved in stone requires tools. That was 15,000 years ago. My people who were nomadic hunters(i.e., people who required tools to hunt) 120,000 years ago. So stop Egypt is by far the oldest or one of the oldest civilization.

A couple of sites with misdated evidence won't change that. I am sorry my friend but the Indus is not 2,500 years older then Egypt which has over 120,000 years of active and prolonged history.


Also Islamic scholars are not historians nor Archeologists. They can say all they want, the facts don't lie



These are facts my friend, your civilization isn't any worse by being third or fourth oldest civilization on earth.

So just accept the facts.

Sunshine, I am not bullshiting because I am from the land of Indus, its the archologist themselves (if you don't belive in Islamic scholars) are putting Indus way above in timeline from both Babylon and Egypt. I don't want to put you down further but since you are quite delusional about your civilization, Indus was three times bigger then contemporary Babylon and Egypt "combined"! To add insult to injury, some archecologist believe that Nile was actually "civilised" by a tribe of Indus, just like ancient Hebrews were a tribe of Indus.

No shame in being down the pecking order, your lots did create their own civilization.
 
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Agreed. This guy is 'textbook' Arabian. If he came to Pakistan they would be like, "Hey man where you come from? You look so differant".

Geeez ....

Riyad-Mahrez-695138.jpg
 
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I know but my point is that Arabs can look very different even within the same family and that it is not strange that city dwellers can look different from people living in the countryside more so if we are talking about desert regions. However that does not mean that they are different people. They just have different looks. As your 5 presidents demonstrate clearly.

ofc but there is a pattern, there is more berber descent in the countryside than in the city. you may find 3out 10 berberish/arabish looking one in sfax/sousse/nabeul and 1-2 out of 10, "whitish" in the countryside if you lucky. and it's not bc of sun or not, tunsia is a smal country, countryside to sea is around 150km
 
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According to the data we currently have available, the first humans originated in East Africa, and the first human civilization was in Mesopotamia (in the Iraq/Syria region). Mesopotamia was dominated by the Sumerians and the Akkaidians.

Apparently it was the Akkadian immigrants who crossed Central Asia and eventually formed the Chinese civilization in the East.

Given that ancient humans mostly followed conventional methods of transportation, this theory does make the most sense.

The ancestral haplogroup for the Chinese O is K, which is the brother haplogroup to J (Semitic) and I (Cro-Magnon).

The Chinese O is younger compared to the Semitic J and Cro-Magnon I.
 
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Try harder troll.













Which do you think is better looking.

My avatar (An Hijazi women and lawyer) or this Iranian woman?



Be honest.

Or what about this Iranian Mullah?



Look, please don't waste my time on trolling. There is already one obsessed troll in this thread.

I should not go down to your level and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You as many Iranians are obsessed about "white skin" while you look more or less the same as Arabs next door but I am not one such person. I prefer darker skinned girls and girls with women assets.

Give me an beautiful olive-skined Arab/Middle Eastern/Pakistani/Latin etc. lady over some pale blonde Swede. Every day of the year.

Another information for you, we Arabs take pride in our olive skin that most of us have and we even have poems about this since time immortal. Nor are we addicted to plastic surgeries or whitening cream. Many Europeans want to have our skin tone during summer when they tan. So go away with your obsessiveness of "white skin". Tired of the "Aryan" nonsense brigade that we see from the Iranian diaspora mostly. Some brown-skinned dude is telling how he is related to Germans. Hilarious. Thank God that we Arabs don't have this sickness.

@Chinese-Dragon told about Indians talking about this hilarious "Aryan stuff" of all people as well but it did not prevent them from being utterly defeated by supposedly "inferior" non-Caucasian Aryans such as the Han Chinese.

@ChineseTiger1986

The ancestral haplogroup for the Chinese O is K, which is the brother haplogroup to J (Semitic) and I (Cro-Magnon).

The Chinese O is younger compared to the Semitic J and Cro-Magnon I.

Indeed which is very interesting when you think about it.

Haplogroup J and I are also brotherly haplogroups and as you rightly said derive from the Cro-Magnon elmeent. Interesting the haplogroup E in Europe is mostly found in Balkans (Bosnia especially) parts of Scandinavia and Greece/Italy/Albania. Also Iberia. So it is quite widespread but mostly found in mountainous regions and isolated regions.

Also it is quite a mystery for me how come Caucasian peoples have even higher J1 frequency than Yemenis and other Arabs. Again both those peoples live in mountainous regions and even have similar architecture in terms of building cities at the top of mountains rather than in the valleys which is common in most places in the world. There were a lot of other similarities that I read about once too such as historically strong maternal cultures (in pre-Islamic Arabia that was the case) etc.

I have somehow always had an interest in Caucasus and deep affinity to the region. I remember being very much impacted by events in Chechnya for instance. Later this interest/likeness increased when I read about the regions history and its close genetic and historical ties to the Arab world. Even more so when I discovered that I have distant Circassian ancestry on my father's side and that some of the largest Circassian diasporas and other Caucasian ones (after Turkey that is) are found in the Arab Near East. When I visited Georgia of all places I also felt a strange feeling of being at home somehow. Very difficult to describe. As if I had lived there before, lol.

Humanity is a funny thing, history even more so.
 
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Stop it bro, Humanity is not 10k years old.

Young Earth creationism directly contradicts the scientific consensus of the scientific community. A 2006 joint statement of InterAcademy Panel on International Issues (IAP) by 68 national and international science academies enumerated the scientific facts that young Earth creationism contradicts, in particular that the universe, the Earth, and life are billions of years old, that each has undergone continual change over those billions of years, and that life on Earth has evolved from a common primordial origin into the diverse forms observed in the fossil record and present today.[7]Evolutionary theory remains the only explanation that fully accounts for all the observations, measurements, data, and evidence discovered in the fields of biology, paleontology, molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, and others.[50][51][52][53][54]

As such, young Earth creationism is dismissed by the academic and the scientific communities.

The vast majority of scientists refute young Earth creationism. Around the start of the 19th century mainstream science abandoned the concept that Earth was younger than millions of years.[124]Measurements of biological, chemical, geological, and astronomical timescales differ from YEC's estimates of Earth's age by six orders of magnitude (that is, by factor of a million times). Scientific estimates of the age of the earliest pottery discovered, the oldest known trees, the ice cores, and layers of silt deposit in Lake Suigetsu are all significantly older than the oldest YEC estimate of Earth's age. YEC's theories are further contradicted by scientists' ability to observe galaxies billions of light years away.

Spokespersons for the scientific community have generally regarded claims that YEC has a scientific basis as being religiously motivated pseudoscience, because young Earth creationists only look for evidence to support their preexisting belief that the Bible is a literal description of the development of the Universe. In 1997, a poll by the Gallup organization showed that 5% of U.S. adults with professional degrees in science took a young Earth creationist view. In the aforementioned poll, 40% of the same group said they believed that life, including humans, had evolved over millions of years, but that God guided this process, a view described as theistic evolution, while 55% held a view of "naturalistic evolution" in which no God took part in this process.[125] Some scientists (such as Hugh Ross and Gerald Schroeder) who believe in creationism are known to subscribe to other forms, such as old Earth creationism, which posits an act of creation that took place millions or billions of years ago, with variations on the timing of the creation of mankind.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Muslims scholars do not believe in Young Earth creationism. Islamic views of the Bible vary. In recent years, a movement has begun to emerge in some Muslim countries promoting themes that have been characteristic of Christian creationists. This stance has received some criticism, due to claims that the Quran and Bible are incompatible.[2][3][4]

The influential historiographer and historian Ibn Khaldun wrote in his famous book the Muqaddimah or Prolegomena ("Introduction") of the "gradual process of creation":[5]

"One should then look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word "connection" with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the next group. The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and to reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of the monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man after (the world of monkeys). This is as far as our (physical) observation extends."

Khalid Anees, of the Islamic Society of Britain, has discussed the relationship between Islam and evolution:[6]

"Islam also has its own school of Evolutionary creationism/Theistic evolutionism, which holds that mainstream scientific analysis of the origin of the universe is supported by the Quran. Many Muslims believe in evolutionary creationism, especially among Sunni and ShiaMuslims and the Liberal movements within Islam. Among scholars of Islam İbrahim Hakkı of Erzurum who lived in Erzurum then Ottoman Empire now Republic of Turkey in the 18th century is famous for stating that 'between plants and animals there is sponge, and, between animals and humans there is monkey'."[7]

A research paper published by the Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research wrote that there is not a consensus among scholars on how to respond to the theory of evolution, and it is not clear whether the scholars are even qualified to give a response.[8]

The verse,"...and We made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"(21:30), is believed by evolutionary Muslims to refer to humans evolving in the oceans millions of years ago, as suggested by modern evolution.[9]



In the 19th century a scholar of Islamic revival, Jamal-al-Din al-Afghānī agreed with Darwin that life will compete with other life in order to succeed. He also believed that there was competition in the realm of ideas similar to that of nature. However, he believed explicitly that life was created by God;[10] Darwin did not discuss the origin of life, saying only "Probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some primordial form, into which life was first breathed".[11]

Islamic scholars Ghulam Ahmed Pervez,[12] Edip Yüksel,[13][14] and T.O. Shanavas in his book, Islamic Theory of Evolution: the Missing Link between Darwin and the Origin of Species[15] say that there is no contradiction between the scientific theory of evolution and Quran's numerous references to the emergence of life in the universe.

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Movement's view of evolution is that of universal acceptance, albeit divinely designed. The movement actively promotes god-directed "evolution". Over the course of several decades the movement issued various publications in support of the scientific concepts behind evolution.[16]

In Turkey, important scholars strove to accommodate the theory of evolution in Islamic scripture during the first decades of the Turkish Republic; their approach to the theory defended Islamic belief in the face of scientific theories of their times.[17]

Are you a Christian or a Muslim?


To cut the long story short, the theory of evolution was proposed by Charles Darwin and if you look deep into the man and the cult he was associated it, it is the same lot, Satanist, the secret society of freemasonry. By accepting evolution, one is directly contradicting creation of Adam and Eve by Allah. The agenda is clear. To negate the creation of Adam, the act which got Satan expelled from heaven and from that day onwards he became the number one enemy of mankind. This evolution theory directly challenge Allah. The earth creation is separate from mankind. There were other sentient being before humanity who were created by Allah like Jins and Angels. Infact jins were the Khalifa of Allah on Earth until they screwd up. Then came the humans. Humans are not the first to walk on the planet. Which explains the other "structures" or "drawings" which are attributed to mankind. I am sure you are familiar by Solomon (AS) and how he commanded the jins to build structures for him.

Bottom line is, be very careful when talking about theory of evolution as unintentionally , without the knowledge and background, you are treading a very fine line between Iman and Kuffar.
 
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The Berber E is African assimilated by the Semitic, which means that most Berbers are African on the father side and Semitic on the mother side. They have also adopted the Semitic culture.

Indeed which is very interesting when you think about it.

Haplogroup J and I are also brotherly haplogroups and as you rightly said derive from the Cro-Magnon elmeent. Interesting the haplogroup E in Europe is mostly found in Balkans (Bosnia especially) parts of Scandinavia and Greece/Italy/Albania. Also Iberia. So it is quite widespread but mostly found in mountainous regions and isolated regions.

Also it is quite a mystery for me how come Caucasian peoples have even higher J1 frequency than Yemenis and other Arabs. Again both those peoples live in mountainous regions and even have similar architecture in terms of building cities at the top of mountains rather than in the valleys which is common in most places in the world. There were a lot of other similarities that I read about once.

Humanity is a funny thing, history even more so.

K could also likely be originally Caucasoid like J and I, but their children NOQ mixed with the East Asian natives, so the modern NOQ looks Mongoloid, while R migrated back to Europe and absorbed the leftover of I, so R still remained as Caucasoid.
 
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Try harder troll.













Which do you think is better looking.

My avatar (An Hijazi women and lawyer) or this Iranian woman?



Be honest.

Or what about this Iranian Mullah?



Look, please don't waste my time on trolling. There is already one obsessed troll in this thread.

I should not go down to your level and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You as many Iranians are obsessed about "white skin" while you look more or less the same as Arabs next door but I am not one such person. I prefer darker skinned girls and girls with women assets.

Give me an beautiful olive-skined Arab/Middle Eastern/Pakistani/Latin etc. lady over some pale blonde Swede. Every day of the year.

Another information for you, we Arabs take pride in our olive skin that most of us have and we even have poems about this since time immortal. Nor are we addicted to plastic surgeries or whitening cream. Many Europeans want to have our skin tone during summer when they tan. So go away with your obsessiveness of "white skin". Tired of the "Aryan" nonsense brigade that we see from the Iranian diaspora mostly. Some brown-skinned dude is telling how he is related to Germans. Hilarious. Thank God that we Arabs don't have this sickness.

@Chinese-Dragon told about Indians talking about this hilarious "Aryan stuff" of all people as well but it did not prevent them from being utterly defeated by supposedly "inferior" non-Caucasian Aryans such as the Han Chinese.

@ChineseTiger1986



Indeed which is very interesting when you think about it.

Haplogroup J and I are also brotherly haplogroups and as you rightly said derive from the Cro-Magnon elmeent. Interesting the haplogroup E in Europe is mostly found in Balkans (Bosnia especially) parts of Scandinavia and Greece/Italy/Albania. Also Iberia. So it is quite widespread but mostly found in mountainous regions and isolated regions.

Also it is quite a mystery for me how come Caucasian peoples have even higher J1 frequency than Yemenis and other Arabs. Again both those peoples live in mountainous regions and even have similar architecture in terms of building cities at the top of mountains rather than in the valleys which is common in most places in the world. There were a lot of other similarities that I read about once too such as historically strong maternal cultures (in pre-Islamic Arabia that was the case) etc.

Humanity is a funny thing, history even more so.
Why are you always angry and butthurt?

Behave yourself.

I did not put a random picture I put the sixth image that I found in google image after searching this result ''saudi football team".

https://www.google.com/search?q=sau...LMAKHRG8Ba4Q_AUIBygB&biw=601&bih=962&dpr=1.33

Do not forget your pills and goodnight.
 
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Good to know. Nice informative thread. I certainly had the mid-impression that Egypt had a lot more Arabic in them than this study shows.

But for all practical matters, culture trumps race, religion and language.
 
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