The Losing deterrence of TNW. Time for Conventional solution of CSD?

[John Reese]

a group of half a dozen(basically shoot and scoot) mrls will intercept them when they split up.
once a split has been found then use 60km cluster munitions to finish them. an aps wont be able to hold of hundreds of clusters.

Smerch and Pinaka Mk2 Will Do Tricks here

but Wait We have another Gem for them in store CSD
Prahaar (missile) - Wikipedia

 

[Zarvan]

Sir jee we need to Alot of things, we need scar we need SU35 we need frigates we need tanks we need third gen atgms, for all of that we need money and thus currently maintaining minimal credible deterrence

I know budget crap but we still have to work to get these things and increasing the pace of induction as budget increases

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir jee we need to Alot of things, we need scar we need SU35 we need frigates we need tanks we need third gen atgms, for all of that we need money and thus currently maintaining minimal credible deterrence

its about prioritization
PAF needs more assets
PN needs 3-4 frigates urgently
PA needs more ant tank weapons
tanks and artillery can be pushed back for the above as long as we keep the Khalid rolling or get some additioanl AL zarrar from our local setup
gunships should be focused for now as anti terrorism activity rather than india centric

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

@Neptune @Signalian @Tank131 @gambit @Khafee ...your input in this thread?

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Smerch and Pinaka Mk2 Will Do Tricks here

but Wait We have another Gem for them in store CSD
Prahaar (missile) - Wikipedia

nasr wont give sufficient reaction time to prahar 2 it won't be effective against maneuvering target 3 you will be hard pressed to locate and identify nasr launchers 4 we have our own mlrs to counter battery yours.

 

[John Reese]

nasr wont give sufficient reaction time to prahar 2 it won't be effective against maneuvering target 3 you will be hard pressed to locate and identify nasr launchers 4 we have our own mlrs to counter battery yours.

Let me tell you that finding Nasr is isn't impossible task as your making it to be .Its 60Km limited range makes a weapon itself vulnerable.One has to deploy it very closely to the border area which makes it detection easy as it shrink its area of operations .

Secondly you will have to predict the place of eventual attack which difficult task

Before Any offensive attack there always be Recce and HUMINT operations on which calculations are made.

MBRLs like smerch ever Upgraded pinaka has longe range and have higher Ratio we can always put 3:1 ratio against batteries
Prahaar which its self is TNW has range almost thrice of Nasr.

The Moment single Nasr fired from its systems it will give away it's location and after taken out by counter strike.

War is very complex phenomenon no one can control or predict what next big step will be

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Let me tell you that finding Nasr is isn't impossible task as your making it to be .Its 60Km limited range makes a weapon itself vulnerable.One has to deploy it very closely to the border area which makes it detection easy as it shrink its area of operations .

Secondly you will have to predict the place of eventual attack which difficult task

Before Any offensive attack there always be Recce and HUMINT operations on which calculations are made.

MBRLs like smerch ever Upgraded pinaka has longe range and have higher Ratio we can always put 3:1 ratio against batteries
Prahaar which its self is TNW has range almost thrice of Nasr.

The Moment single Nasr fired from its systems it will give away it's location and after taken out by counter strike.

War is very complex phenomenon no one can control or predict what next big step will be

It won't be a single nasr fire it will be a barrage of nasr and mlrs. one can hide a battery or two of nasr and mlrs but it is very hard to hide whole strike formation.

 

[John Reese]

It won't be a single nasr fire it will be a barrage of nasr and mlrs. one can hide a battery or two of nasr and mlrs but it is very hard to hide whole strike formation.

In Modern Battle Where Enemy enjoys superior C4ISTAR capabilities and satellite surveillance And SAR capabilities
With Limited Range Of Nasr it can easily Predicted that It will deployed Near border areas To counter India's CSD .The Ratio of batteries will always favor India's way lets say With For 1 Nasr Battery India will deploy 3 Batteries of Prahaar With CAS Support From Air

To fire First You have to predict If attack will be from ground or Airborne Infantry Be prepared For Massive counter Strikes Retaliation Always .

What if India Do Pre-emtive strikes What if Before Invasion India Bombed every Possible Location it faces threat from

For Example :For Hypothetical Scenario Lets Say India sent 100-120 Aircraft's SEAD/DEAD Missions for Sargodha AFB With Every stand Off Weapons And other munitions

Destroyed 60-70 % Fleet of F-16s deployed In Air Raids And Suppose Lost 80 fighters To AA and others Etc .

What Will Be PAF next move without 70% of Fleet of its Primary fighter.
How It will face 270 MKi' and 100+ Mig-29s and others then Without F-16s

Once again I repeat War Is Most Unconventional Territory.Every prediction fails in real war

 

[Zarvan]

its about prioritization
PAF needs more assets
PN needs 3-4 frigates urgently
PA needs more ant tank weapons
tanks and artillery can be pushed back for the above as long as we keep the Khalid rolling or get some additioanl AL zarrar from our local setup
gunships should be focused for now as anti terrorism activity rather than india centric

Exactly we need to start the process with what ever we have

 

[Fawadqasim1]

In Modern Battle Where Enemy enjoys superior C4ISTAR capabilities and satellite surveillance And SAR capabilities
With Limited Range Of Nasr it can easily Predicted that It will deployed Near border areas To counter India's CSD .The Ratio of batteries will always favor India's way lets say With For 1 Nasr Battery India will deploy 3 Batteries of Prahaar With CAS Support From Air

To fire First You have to predict If attack will be from ground or Airborne Infantry Be prepared For Massive counter Strikes Retaliation Always .

What if India Do Pre-emtive strikes What if Before Invasion India Bombed every Possible Location it faces threat from

For Example :For Hypothetical Scenario Lets Say India sent 100-120 Aircraft's SEAD/DEAD Missions for Sargodha AFB With Every stand Off Weapons And other munitions

Destroyed 60-70 % Fleet of F-16s deployed In Air Raids And Suppose Lost 80 fighters To AA and others Etc .

What Will Be PAF next move without 70% of Fleet of its Primary fighter.
How It will face 270 MKi' and 100+ Mig-29s and others then Without F-16s

Once again I repeat War Is Most Unconventional Territory.Every prediction fails in real war

as I say dreams are tax free so is trolling

 

[Sankpal]

no, simply it doesn't affect Indian policy.

it will be most stupid thing if anyone talk to use nuclear missile. even against a small army unit.

 

[John Reese]

as I say dreams are tax free so is trolling

Condition applied Same on the other Side when A Nation thinks To Take on adversary which has 4-5 times Resources of Itself

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Condition applied Same on the other Side when A Nation thinks To Take on adversary which has 4-5 times Resources of Itself

aahwe te chamatkar ay

 

[The SC]

what about a long range (300km+) mrls with cluster munitions? pakistan dont have strike fighters so mrls do the trick just fine

(200-300km+) MRLS are available on the international market, China has them too and Pakistan can either get them off the shelf or make its own.. there are better alternatives to Cluster bombs now a day.. the US just finished testing some new projectiles to replace the cluster bombs, they say they are almost the conventional equivalents of a TNW..

 

[CriticalThought]

The answer is:

1. Marry thermobaric warheads to Nasr.
2. Make Nasr's trajectory highly unpredictable. Keep in mind that it doesn't need to be pin point accurate. Due to the blast radius, it can tolerate a bit of error.
3. Make it stealthy by design or make it hypersonic.

Further to the above, we must operate on the assumption that India will start with a nuclear strike.

4. Devise an electro-magnetic rail gun launcher for Nasr to minimize launch signature that can be viewed by recon.

5. Recently, ballistic missiles have been air launched. Devise a long endurance drone that can carry nasr to within its 60 km range for launch.

6. Realistic decoys. The Russians have decoys that generate a heat signature. This is a must and should be acquired on high priority basis.

In general, don't get cowed by the enemy's posturing and start backing down from TNW doctrine. That is sheer stupidity. I take issue with people on this thread who are swaying towards increasing conventional capability.

Also remember that Nasr is a tactical solution and by definition faces all problems of a tactical solution. The enemy is posturing saying we will counter the tactical solution by known counters. The answer isn't to scuttle the tactical solution. The answer is a complete war fighting strategy.

@Horus @Oscar