The latest news is that China's 7nm chips are manufactured using synchrotron radiation, which has 40 times the capacity of EUV lithography.

[MH.Yang]

Thanks for posting this. I have met a lot of really smart Tshingua graduates, so I have great respect for this university. However, the leap from research in a university and commerical production is a big one and your posts don't provide enough authoritative information to demonstrate this has been done. My main concern is what the unit cost of production will be, taking into account capital costs. The chips in the new phone carry the SMIC label. How is SMIC involved in the process you have described ? Also please see a report on statements made by a Tshingua professor:

Goals of 'Made in China 2025' Are Unachievable: Tsinghua Professor

China can currently produce 41.4% of its chip needs.

www.tomshardware.com

It is difficult to reconcile the publicly available information with what you are reporting. If you have anything reported by Huawei, SMIC or Tshingua with details, please share it.

The two plants belong to CGST and Zhangjiang Hi-Tech, two companies under the Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF.

Huawei announced and thanked Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF for their cooperation on the chips at the conference.

Tsinghua University submitted and announced the theory and proposal of SSMB-EUV 10 years ago, and Tsinghua University announced the successful construction of SSMB-EUV factory in February this year.

In February this year, the Chinese government media announced that Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF had built two factories using Tsinghua University's technology and proposal.

Do you see the connection and logic between these events?

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

so now u just gonna straight up make up lies

its chinese propaganda for retards

they want u to believe this but not uyghur camps

@waz @WebMaster Continuously provoking and disrupting threads.

You are forgetting even nations like Pakistan and North Korea have stolen missile and nuclear tech. So, yes, if China is motivated enough , they can definitely get an ASML machine by busting sanctions.

lol, I did not accuse China of anything. I only asked for the source of the "news" . If OP cannot provide the source, I will stick to my premise. If someone can provide data to the contrary, I will be happy to admit my premise was incorrect.

So. Please prove that the Chinese 7nm chip uses ASML EUV.

Please prove. Thank you.

 

[Menthol]

The two plants belong to CGST and Zhangjiang Hi-Tech, two companies under the Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF.

Huawei announced and thanked Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF for their cooperation on the chips at the conference.

Tsinghua University submitted and announced the theory and proposal of SSMB-EUV 10 years ago, and Tsinghua University announced the successful construction of SSMB-EUV factory in February this year.

In February this year, the Chinese government media announced that Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF had built two factories using Tsinghua University's technology and proposal.

Do you see the connection and logic between these events?

Basically, this is still a rumor.

Since there's no official statement on how Huawei is able to do it.

I can't wait to see Huawei launching 5mn chip and so on.

 

[TriptiD]

The two plants belong to CGST and Zhangjiang Hi-Tech, two companies under the Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF.

Huawei announced and thanked Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF for their cooperation on the chips at the conference.

Tsinghua University submitted and announced the theory and proposal of SSMB-EUV 10 years ago, and Tsinghua University announced the successful construction of SSMB-EUV factory in February this year.

In February this year, the Chinese government media announced that Beijing Synchrotron Radiation Facility, BSF had built two factories using Tsinghua University's technology and proposal.

Do you see the connection and logic between these events?

Well, there is some connection but still lot of unanswered questions. How is SMIC involved in all this ? It is their name on the chip, after all. Which entity owns the IP ? Have relevant patents been filed in China ? By whom? And what about the US and other Western countries ? Wouldn't whichever Chinese entity made the breakthrough? Then why hasn't anyone in the West spotted these patent applications yet ?

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

You are forgetting even nations like Pakistan and North Korea have stolen missile and nuclear tech. So, yes, if China is motivated enough , they can definitely get an ASML machine by busting sanctions.

Usually. Indians are better at these things. And they are proud of it.

 

[TriptiD]

So. Please prove that the Chinese 7nm chip uses ASML EUV.

Please prove. Thank you.

I have said so many times that I can't prove it because I don't even know if its true.

I am sure Tsinghua is doing some cutting edge research in the field. I doubt that the tech used in the SMIC chips in the Huawei chips is fully Chinese, but if someone presents evidence to that effect, then I will admit my doubts were ill-founded.

My understanding is that until now the known processes for making those chips required ASML machines. I am not saying China has not developed an alternative, only that there is no public records or evidence about what that process is.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Well, there is some connection but still lot of unanswered questions. How is SMIC involved in all this ? It is their name on the chip, after all. Which entity owns the IP ? Have relevant patents been filed in China ? By whom? And what about the US and other Western countries ? Wouldn't whichever Chinese entity made the breakthrough? Then why hasn't anyone in the West spotted these patent applications yet ?

Sorry. I don't know what you're being stubborn about.

A new Huawei chip packaging patent reveals performance verification technology

China’s patent office recently published a new Huawei chip packaging technology patent with application number CN116547791A. The title is “a chip package and a Method for preparing chip package”. It was applied on December 16, 2020, and approved on August 4th, 2023. According to the summary, the...

www.google.co.jp

If India wants to look different from Pakistan. Firstly, India should address the illiteracy issues

I have said so many times that I can't prove it because I don't even know if its true.

I am sure Tsinghua is doing some cutting edge research in the field. I doubt that the tech used in the SMIC chips in the Huawei chips is fully Chinese, but if someone presents evidence to that effect, then I will admit my doubts were ill-founded.

My understanding is that until now the known processes for making those chips required ASML machines. I am not saying China has not developed an alternative, only that there is no public records or evidence about what that process is.

Let me talk about a common sense topic - if Huawei chips use ASML. Americans will know Mate 60 before Chinese people.

The fact is. The ASML owned by China cannot manufacture 7nm chips.

Huawei 7nm chip is completely based on Chinese semiconductor technology!

 

[TriptiD]

Sorry. I don't know what you're being stubborn about.

A new Huawei chip packaging patent reveals performance verification technology

China’s patent office recently published a new Huawei chip packaging technology patent with application number CN116547791A. The title is “a chip package and a Method for preparing chip package”. It was applied on December 16, 2020, and approved on August 4th, 2023. According to the summary, the...

www.google.co.jp

This is a Chinese patent that was applied for in 2020. Huawei probably has hundreds if not thousands of chip-related patents . Are you saying the one you have posted this patents the process that was used to make the SMIC chips on the new Huawei phone ? So, Huawei has had the process since before 2020 ? Why is SMIC's name on the chip if the IP belongs to Huawei?

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

I have said so many times that I can't prove it because I don't even know if its true.

I am sure Tsinghua is doing some cutting edge research in the field. I doubt that the tech used in the SMIC chips in the Huawei chips is fully Chinese, but if someone presents evidence to that effect, then I will admit my doubts were ill-founded.

My understanding is that until now the known processes for making those chips required ASML machines. I am not saying China has not developed an alternative, only that there is no public records or evidence about what that process is.

If India wants to look different from Pakistan. India develops its own technology first!

Currently, even cameras. India still relies on Chinese technology. India and Pakistan are not too different.

This is a Chinese patent that was applied for in 2020. Huawei probably has hundreds if not thousands of chip-related patents . Are you saying the one you have posted this patents the process that was used to make the SMIC chips on the new Huawei phone ? So, Huawei has had the process since before 2020 ? Why is SMIC's name on the chip if the IP belongs to Huawei?

The fact is. The ASML owned by China cannot manufacture 7nm chips！

Can you understand?

This is a Chinese patent that was applied for in 2020. Huawei probably has hundreds if not thousands of chip-related patents . Are you saying the one you have posted this patents the process that was used to make the SMIC chips on the new Huawei phone ? So, Huawei has had the process since before 2020 ? Why is SMIC's name on the chip if the IP belongs to Huawei?

What are you being stubborn about?

Huawei patents EUV lithography tools used to make

Huawei has patented one component used in EUV lithography systems that is required to make high-end processors on sub-10 nm nodes. It solves the problem of interference...

www.techspot.com

 

[TriptiD]

If India wants to look different from Pakistan. India develops its own technology first!

Currently, even cameras. India still relies on Chinese technology. India and Pakistan are not too different.

Lol, that is so irrelevant. We are discussing the new chips on the Huawei chips. What does that have to do with India or Pakistan? Why are you derailing the discussion ?

@MH.Yang is at least making a positive contribution to the thread by posting relevant information he has. Please learn something from him.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Lol, that is so irrelevant. We are discussing the new chips on the Huawei chips. What does that have to do with India or Pakistan? Why are you derailing the discussion ?

@MH.Yang is at least making a positive contribution to the thread by posting relevant information he has. Please learn something from him.

Huawei patents EUV lithography tools used to make

Huawei has patented one component used in EUV lithography systems that is required to make high-end processors on sub-10 nm nodes. It solves the problem of interference...

www.techspot.com

Lol, that is so irrelevant. We are discussing the new chips on the Huawei chips. What does that have to do with India or Pakistan? Why are you derailing the discussion ?

@MH.Yang is at least making a positive contribution to the thread by posting relevant information he has. Please learn something from him.

Huawei EUV Scanner Patent Suggests Sub-7nm Chips for China

Huawei files a patent application covering EUV scanners.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Menthol]

I have said so many times that I can't prove it because I don't even know if its true.

I am sure Tsinghua is doing some cutting edge research in the field. I doubt that the tech used in the SMIC chips in the Huawei chips is fully Chinese, but if someone presents evidence to that effect, then I will admit my doubts were ill-founded.

My understanding is that until now the known processes for making those chips required ASML machines. I am not saying China has not developed an alternative, only that there is no public records or evidence about what that process is.

That is the news.

Because Huawei is able to produce 7nm chips without ASML.

And now everyone is investigating and proposing several theories about it.

Up to now, no one really knows the truth.


My theory is probably a DUV trick, as SMIC launched 7nm processor for bitcoin mining using a DUV trick last year.

And it's not a coincidence because Huawei is launching 7nm processor instead of 5nm or 3nm.

 

[Bilal.]

Like I said. It won’t be a moving goal post for long. Things are slowing down:

Naveed Sherwani on LinkedIn: It is hard to develop new silicon with improved performance and power year… | 27 comments

It is hard to develop new silicon with improved performance and power year after year… Market does not seem excited about latest processor numbers from Apple… | 27 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Lol, that is so irrelevant. We are discussing the new chips on the Huawei chips. What does that have to do with India or Pakistan? Why are you derailing the discussion ?

@MH.Yang is at least making a positive contribution to the thread by posting relevant information he has. Please learn something from him.

 

[TriptiD]

Huawei patents EUV lithography tools used to make

Huawei has patented one component used in EUV lithography systems that is required to make high-end processors on sub-10 nm nodes. It solves the problem of interference...

www.techspot.com

Huawei EUV Scanner Patent Suggests Sub-7nm Chips for China

Huawei files a patent application covering EUV scanners.

www.tomshardware.com

Thanks for the link. I hope you read this part:

"It has a long way to go before it can make its own EUV systems but they are receiving plenty of capital and support from the government to get there."

No one doubts China is making progress on EUV but so far, until it becomes clear how the SMIC chips were produced, there is no evidence it has succeeded in doing so on an industrial scale.