The J-20-engine discussion is over and other speculative topics ... to separate from the J-20-news !

[ChineseTiger1986]

"Only since the new image, is a stupid fake, does not mean, the other one is faked too."

Unfortunately, This stupid fake picture's close up, is appearing identical, to your "real" picture, Mr. @Deino.

Posting the PSed pic is definitely hammering their own credit.

BTW, I guess if the prototype 2021 turns out to be a baloney, they can still use the excuse to backup their falsehood like the WS-10X doesn't work, so it fails in the maiden flight, and the PLAAF has no choice but to switch back with the AL-31FM1. Only their zealous fanboys will still blindly follow them.

 

[Figaro]

Today, the CCTV-4 has challenged the entire AL-31FM1/WS-10X theory again.

This whole J-20 engine debate is now getting even more dramatized than the 2016 US election.

Now the entire debating point is clear; if the CD forum and many AL-31 big shrimps can provide the real evidence of the prototype 2021, they won. Otherwise, they are going to be buried by the majority of the Chinese military fans.



Well, at least the CCTV-4 still has the power to get many exclusive interviews from the Chinese aviation companies and experts, while the big shrimps from the CD forum don't have this privilege.

The guest from the CCTV-4 show who challenged this theory merely represents a voice to criticize these online big shrimps. He may not be professional, but as a Senior Colonel, he definitely has more privilege to access into more classified information than any big shrimp from the CD forum.

What did senior colonel say. Who is this individual? Reminds me of that Chinese real admiral who consistently denied there was a J-20 back in 2010. Suffice to say, CCTV commentators probably aren't the best ...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

U made a mistake. The PSed photo was just attatching the real WS-10X engine to an old J-20 prototype. The original WS-10 photo was not faked ...

They should post the real WS-10X with its real attached J-20 body.

By doing this, it will only raise more skepticism to their credibility.

 

[Figaro]

They should post the real WS-10X with its real attached J-20 body.

By doing this, it will only raise more skepticism to their credibility.

It's very hard to PS this if it really is ... in fact, it might even be impossible. I can check with my graphic designer friend on this if needed ... Regarding CJDBY or any other Chinese BBS, I presume there are many trolls who insist that China is not technologically sufficient ... to their detriment.

 

[Asoka]

It's very hard to PS this if it really is ... in fact, it might even be impossible. I can check with my graphic designer friend on this if needed ... Regarding CJDBY or any other Chinese BBS, I presume there are many trolls who insist that China is not technologically sufficient ... to their detriment.

"It's very hard to PS this if it really is ... in fact, it might even be impossible. "

What are you talking about? Are you blind? "it might even be impossible. "? The one with the serial 2021 is an obvious fake, that even @Deino, can tell easily. And both pictures's close up, are identical, with its glaring BIG GAPs, near the nozzle.

These two pictures's nozzles looks identical, how could it be possible to fake one, but impossible to fake the another one?

Where did you learn your Logic 101?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

What did senior colonel say. Who is this individual? Reminds me of that Chinese real admiral who consistently denied there was a J-20 back in 2010. Suffice to say, CCTV commentators probably aren't the best ...

He claimed to have consulted an expert from the Chinese aviation domain that the J-20 can only have a super powerful engine with the TWR above 9 in order to meet the demand.

He openly rejects any possibility with the AL-31, which implies that the WS-10 also doesn't meet the demand.

It's very hard to PS this if it really is ... in fact, it might even be impossible. I can check with my graphic designer friend on this if needed ... Regarding CJDBY or any other Chinese BBS, I presume there are many trolls who insist that China is not technologically sufficient ... to their detriment.

The new pic is clearly PSed.

By doing this, they are clearly shooting themselves on the foot.

Mr. Chen Hong is a Senior Colonel of the PLAAF. And he claimed to have consulted to a Chinese aviation expert before making the comment about the J-20 engine.

And I saw some people nitpicking him for making the blunder about the Su-35 using the AESA radar in the past. Thus, they are trying to discredit him entirely along with the CCTV-4.

 

[Asoka]

He claimed to have consulted an expert from the Chinese aviation domain that the J-20 can only have a super powerful engine with the TWR above 9 in order to meet the demand.

He openly rejects any possibility with the AL-31, which implies that the WS-10 also doesn't meet the demand.



The new pic is clearly PSed.

By doing this, they are clearly shooting themselves on the foot.

Mr. Chen Hong is a Senior Colonel of the PLAAF. And he claimed to have consulted to the Chinese aviation expert before making the comment on the J-20 engine.



And I saw some people nitpicking him for making the blunder about the Su-35 using the AESA radar, thus they are trying to discredit him entirely along with the CCTV-4.

View attachment 425525

They did shoot themselves in their feet, or in their heads, or in their big mouths, this time.

If the new fake picture, is a close up, like the old fake one. Those fan-boys will use it as additional evidences, to prove their Russian AL-31 theory is right, but the faker, made the big mistake of using, the whole image, of a known and old J-20 picture.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

They did shoot themselves in their feet, or in their heads, or in their big mouths.

If the new fake picture, is a close up, like the old fake one. Those fan-boys will use it as additional evidences to prove their Russian AL-31 theory is right, but the faker made the big mistake of using the whole picture of a known and old J-20 picture.

Yes, if the prototype 2021 is proven to be a falsehood, then it is going to be a domino effect. All previous theory about the AL-31FM is going to collapse, since their credibility wouldn't exist anymore, except for their cult fanboys.

BTW, I am still waiting to see if the so-called prototype 2021 does really exist.

 

[Asoka]

Yes, if the prototype 2021 is proven to be a falsehood, then it is going to be a domino effect. All previous theory about the AL-31FM is going to collapse, since their credibility wouldn't exist anymore, except for their culprit fanboys.

BTW, I am still waiting to see if the so-called prototype 2021 does really exist.

"Yes, if the prototype 2021 is proven to be a falsehood, then it is going to be a domino effect"

There is no "IF", in this open and shut case. Mr @Deino posted this, himself, in page 623. And @Figaro seconded Denio's opinion, that the new picture is a fake, with this line:

"How does one not notice? The cockpit ?!?!?! The J-20 had a different cockpit since 2017 prototype"

CASE CLOSED. I say.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-20-5th-generation-aircraft-news-discussions.111471/page-623

Again an idiot with too much time and not enough talent ...

Here's the original one:

"BTW, I am still waiting to see if the so-called prototype 2021 does really exist."

If you still have doubts that this picture could be real, just ask @Deino. He is our resident expert and noted authors on Chinese Combat Aircrafts.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

"Yes, if the prototype 2021 is proven to be a falsehood, then it is going to be a domino effect"

There is no "IF", in this open and shut case. Mr @Deino posted this, himself, in page 623. And @Figaro seconded Denio's opinion, that the new picture is a fake, with this line:

"How does one not notice? The cockpit ?!?!?! The J-20 had a different cockpit since 2017 prototype"

CASE CLOSED. I say.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-20-5th-generation-aircraft-news-discussions.111471/page-623

Again an idiot with too much time and not enough talent ...

Here's the original one:

To be an online big shrimp, you gotta be careful with your own words and prediction.

Just look at POP3, a well respected PLAN veteran with a lot of expertise.

Just because he made a bad prediction on the EMALS vs steam catapult debate, his reputation and prestige have hammered so hard by the online community.

Of course, we cannot solely blame POP3 for the EMALS replacement, since the steam catapult was the original designation, and as a retired official, he definitely doesn't have the fastest access to the newest information.

And those big shrimps of the PLAAF section of the CD forum don't even have the expertise of POP3, and they are going to crash really hard this time by playing the fire.

 

[Deino]

"It's very hard to PS this if it really is ... in fact, it might even be impossible. "

What are you talking about? Are you blind? "it might even be impossible. "? The one with the serial 2021 is an obvious fake, that even @Deino, can tell easily. And both pictures's close up, are identical, with its glaring BIG GAPs, near the nozzle.

These two pictures's nozzles looks identical, how could it be possible to fake one, but impossible to fake the another one?

Where did you learn your Logic 101?

View attachment 425523 View attachment 425524

Sorry to say so, but You are wrong again. The one on top is clearly fake - no need to talk about - and the second one below is real. Also more than obviously.

 

[Asoka]

Sorry to say so, but You are wrong again. The one on top is clearly fake - no need to talk about - and the second one below is real. Also more than obviously.

The close ups of the nozzles, esp. the BIG GAPS, shown they are identical. If one could be fake, there is no reason that another one, can't be faked.

It is most likely that they are FAKED by the same sloppy P.S. Faker, "an idiot with too much time and not enough talent ...", as you have said.

With your new post at page 623, you have proved that the old picture was a fake. With your sharp eyes, You have regained your international reputation, as a noted expert on Chinese Combat Aircraft, Mr. @Deino.

BRAVO! to Mr. @Deino, I said.

But You might have to go back, in time, to undo your premature victory lap celebrations, @Deino, I am afraid.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The close ups of the nozzles, esp. the BIG GAPS, shown they are identical. If one could be fake, there is no reason that another one, can't be faked.

It is most likely that they are FAKED by the same sloppy P.S. Faker, "an idiot with too much time and not enough talent ...", as you have said.

With your new post at page 623, you have proved that the old picture was a fake. With your sharp eyes, You have regained your international reputation, as a noted expert on Chinese Combat Aircraft, Mr. @Deino.

BRAVO! I said.

But You might have to go back, in time, to undo your premature victory lap celebrations, @Deino, I am afraid.

I think 科京同志 was the first person who posted the pic about the WS-10X on the prototype 2021.

He posted the second pic in his Weibo, but didn't claim that the pic was PSed and got caught up by some netizens with the original pic of the prototype 2011, then he awkwardly agreed that the pic was PSed.

 

[Asoka]

Chinese experts argues that for a large and heavy plane like J-20 and F-22 to achieve supersonic cruise, w/o afterburner, it's engine's Thrust to Weight Ratio (TWR), must be greater than 9.

And neither WS-10 and AL-31 could do it, because it's TWR is less than 8.

"引言：刀口大侠, 自从看到卖国贼, 居然P图造假歼20换国发, 气的一病不起，有鉴于国贼猖獗, 刀口大侠, 近日病榻发文, 以正视听！

原文：关于我们国家的歼-20飞机，这是一个国之重器，就像那航母一样, 是非常好的武器，所以它的一些战术技术性能数据, 是非常保密。

尽管, 它已经进行了, 一些飞行表演的试飞行动，但是, 包括我们的对手，包括那些最热情的军迷和发烧友，他们所猜测那些数据，其实我认为还差这个。

他没有解开这个谜底！还真没有看到这最主要的东西！凭表面尾喷等推测是错误的。

那么我们认为就是现在有些网上说，比如说歼-20的推力，最大发动机的推力可以达到14到15吨，（网传刚换太行B的谣言）

我觉得这些数据好像都不是十分准确。

我告诉大家一个情况，为了参加你这个节目，昨天晚上专门请教了一个非常权威性的航空工业专家（真*内部人士对比某些跳大神），他告诉我这样一个情况，那么这里不妨告诉大家，一些非常有意思的航空知识。（奉旨官泄）

发动机的推重比，什么意思，就是发动机最后工作这个推力，和发动机的重量要有一个比，比值越大发动机就越好。

应该说就可以达到那种，刚才您说叫超音速巡航。它要达到什么标准？推重比要达到9以上！

就是这个推力要和这个重量发动机量一比，达到9倍以上！这个才能够做超音速飞行！（基础知识打脸某些跳大神）

而今天这些小型军用飞机, 都不能达到这一点。比如说苏-27, 它那个推力, 只有12吨，那它发动机重量相当大，它达不到这个9的比重（打脸毛发三姨夫党）！

美国的F15推力, 只有10吨左右，它也达不到, 这种超音速巡航。

像“台风”更小了（讽刺台风伪超巡，同时打脸美媒认为的歼20是低超音速伪超巡）。

所以要达到, 第四代喷气式战斗机, 这种超音速巡航，就必须要在, 推重比上, 达到9以上。

我觉得, 我们这个歼-20, 为了要实现, 这种超音速巡航，就必要, 要在发动机上, 大做文章。我这个重量轻，推力大，这个推重比, 就能使飞机超音速巡航！（明确歼20使用的是, 推重比9以上的发动机）

就刚才您说的，不使用最多燃料的情况下，我就让它超音速飞行。这才是第四代战斗机的, 最突出的特点！（不开加力, 就能超巡, 才是真*四代机）

剩下的就是介绍, 铼镍超合金高机密叶片，是目前中国企业, 能够给国产战机提供的, 最新材料生产的叶片。

分析：超音速巡航发动机, 自身推重比, 必须要达到9以上，不开加力, 超巡持续时间至少30分钟以上。（目前已知只有F22能做到）

F119发动机生产型加力推力156KN=15918KG（9.8N=1KG），自重1714KG，推重比9.28

AL31三姨夫发动机加力推力为12500kg，推重比7.1

WS-10A太行A发动机加力推力为12800kg，推重比7.5~7.8

WS-10B太行B发动机加力推力为13200kg~140000kg，推重比8.1~8.2

歼20目前已经服役，对于歼20超巡能力，官方的表态，不管是珠海航展的杜文龙, 还是朱日和阅兵的歼20飞行员张日天，都明确表示, 歼20超音速巡航, 能力优秀！

三姨夫和太行的推重比都达不到9，都不能超音速巡航！

因此真相只有一个：歼20早已装备WS15发动机。"

I think 科京同志 was the first person who posted the pic about the WS-10X on the prototype 2021.

He posted the second pic in his Weibo, but didn't claim that the pic was PSed and got caught up by some netizens with the original pic of the prototype 2011, then he awkwardly agreed that the pic was PSed.

The close up of both fake pictures look identical. It is most likely they are faked by the same lousy faker. If "科京同志" posted the second picture first, it is also mostly likely, he knows the faker, or he, himself, is the faker.

 

[Deino]

The close ups of the nozzles, esp. the BIG GAPS, shown they are identical. If one could be fake, there is no reason that another one, can't be faked.

It is most likely that they are FAKED by the same sloppy P.S. Faker, "an idiot with too much time and not enough talent ...", as you have said.

With your new post at page 623, you have proved that the old picture was a fake. With your sharp eyes, You have regained your international reputation, as a noted expert on Chinese Combat Aircraft, Mr. @Deino.

BRAVO! to Mr. @Deino, I said.

But You might have to go back, in time, to undo your premature victory lap celebrations, @Deino, I am afraid.

They are not the same, surely not. And while the first image of the yellow bird is blurred, showing an unfinished engine installation with the panels misding - in fact nothing special - shows the second image on a very clear image a blurred nozzle, which is slightly smaller than it should be and exactly the same gap.