The J-20-engine discussion is over and other speculative topics ... to separate from the J-20-news !

[sinait]

If you don't establish demand for your product the industry will not take off and further R&D will become stunted.

The real battle has started now. Companies like GM are moving towards Carbon Matrix Composites for engine blades. For increasing stealth and performance, there is always the need to decrease IR signature while improving thrust.

You don't want to make a mistake like Indians who kept researching Tejas for 30 years. You need to operationalize thus technology so you get real world feedback and perform further research.

Precisely, of the need to move quickly, China need to concentrate resources onto essential and pressing needs like W-15, WS-20, WS-10x engines for new fighter jets and lucrative commercial jet engines, and not on items that already have a steady and reliable supply, especially where modifications are needed to fit the new engines.

Failure of the Indians on the Tejas are more of their industrial incapability rather than strategy.
Of course industrial incapability could also result from past strategy failure.
.

 

[Title1234]

J20 may have three production line one with AL31. Two with ws19G. The new forth line will start by 2019 with ws15 with two. 12 J 20 for each line per year now China have around 100 J20. This is the best way to boots bomber of J20 .

Ws19G correct to Ws10G sorry.

 

[Figaro]

J20 may have three production line one with AL31. Two with ws19G. The new forth line will start by 2019 with ws15 with two. 12 J 20 for each line per year now China have around 100 J20. This is the best way to boots bomber of J20 .

Ws19G correct to Ws10G sorry.

Uhh ... that is a widely optimistic assumption. And why will the AL-31 line continue if the WS-10X is its supposed replacement (given AL-31F shortages)? The WS-15 assumption is even more comical; we have not even seen its appearance on the J-20 and you're expecting full production by 2019. Simply put it, China will probably not have 100 J-20's even by 2020.

 

[Title123]

Uhh ... that is a widely optimistic assumption. And why will the AL-31 line continue if the WS-10X is its supposed replacement (given AL-31F shortages)? The WS-15 assumption is even more comical; we have not even seen its appearance on the J-20 and you're expecting full production by 2019. Simply put it, China will probably not have 100 J-20's even by 2020.

They can move to AL41 or more advance Rusia engine or ws10g , ws15.
US F16 F15 have two kind off engine supply by two engine company too.100j20 may be wrong number if third production line just start this year.CHINA may plan to have 500 J20 so they neED 50 TO 70 per year .May be rumor russia will sell Su 35 engine to China may use for AL31 production line.

But i think we will see J20 with WS15 with tvc in 2019.Start initial trial production only not full production line.

 

[Figaro]

They can move to AL41 or more advance Rusia engine or ws10g , ws15.
US F16 F15 have two kind off engine supply by two engine company too.100j20 may be wrong number if third production line just start this year.CHINA may plan to have 500 J20 so they neED 50 TO 70 per year .May be rumor russia will sell Su 35 engine to China may use for AL31 production line.

But i think we will see J20 with WS15 with twc in 2019.

What AL-41? Do you think China wants to re-engineer their J-20s to incorporate a foreign AL-41 engine Russia probably isn't even willing to sell? There's a reason why China switched to the WS-10X you know ... If you really think that CAC can produce 50-70 J-20s this year, you're wayyyy too optimistic . "Seeing" a J-20 with a WS-15 does not mean that it is in full production

 

[Title123]

What AL-41? Do you think China wants to re-engineer their J-20s to incorporate a foreign AL-41 engine Russia probably isn't even willing to sell? There's a reason why China switched to the WS-10X you know ... If you really think that CAC can produce 50-70 J-20s this year, you're wayyyy too optimistic . "Seeing" a J-20 with a WS-15 does not mean that it is in full production

Russia is unpredictable event they had conflicted with China in the past they made surprise by given Mig 21 blueprint to China . 50-70 J20 per year may not now but may be their goal .J20 may start initial trial production 2019 not full production.F16 F15 have two kind of engine from two engine company too .

 

[Figaro]

Russia is unpredictable event they had conflicted with China in the past they made surprise by given Mig 21 blueprint to China . 50-70 J20 per year may not now but may be their goal .J20 may start initial trial production 2019 not full production.

The Mig 21 tech transfer was many years ago ... and that was the USSR. China will not get the AL-41 engines. Period. One day CAC will indeed produce 50 J-20s a year, but I believe this will only happen when the WS-15 comes online (instead of interim WS-10X).

 

[Deino]

J20 may have three production line one with AL31. Two with ws19G. The new forth line will start by 2019 with ws15 with two. 12 J 20 for each line per year now China have around 100 J20. This is the best way to boots bomber of J20 .

Ws19G correct to Ws10G sorry.

Pardon, but this claim is even more ridiculous that Asok's WS-15 from day one theory!! ... any hint where You got that idea??

- three production lines ... one with AL-31, 2 with WS-10G
- a fourth production line ????
- WS-15 from 2019 on ???


We just put that strange WS-15-theory to rest and now You come up with this.

Even Chinese reports now claim that "Latest fighter jets to use domestically made engines by 2022: experts" (http://english.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-09/13/content_7753378.htm)

... so no chance of a WS-15 already in 2019.

And Your comparison to the F-16 using different engines is way off since it was an industry-political decision to give both PW and GE each half of the cake.

Come on ... stay realistic. No more wet-dreams.

Deino

 

[Figaro]

Pardon, but this claim is even more ridiculous that Asok's WS-15 from day one theory!! ... any hint where You got that idea??

- three production lines ... one with AL-31, 2 with WS-10G
- a fourth production line ????
- WS-15 from 2019 on ???


We just put that strange WS-15-theory to rest and now You come up with this.

Even Chinese reports now claim that "Latest fighter jets to use domestically made engines by 2022: experts" (http://english.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-09/13/content_7753378.htm)

... so no chance of a WS-15 already in 2019.

And Your comparison to the F-16 using different engines is way off since it was an industry-political decision to give both PW and GE each half of the cake.

Come on ... stay realistic. No more wet-dreams.

Deino

I think he means a 2019 appearance of WS-15 on a J-20 testbed ...

 

[Ultima Thule]

I think he means a 2019 appearance of WS-15 on a J-20 testbed ...

By some senior Chinese members here on PDF saying that WS-15 will appears in 2023 on J-20

 

[Figaro]

By some senior Chinese members here on PDF saying that WS-15 will appears in 2023 on J-20

2023 as in full production of J-20B (WS-15 variant)... we will first see a WS-15 on the J-20 by 2019 for testing purposes! If we first saw a WS-15 on the J-20 in 2023, then full production would be in the 2028-2030 time-frame!

My thoughts ...
2019/20 - WS-15 makes an appearance on the J-20 for testing purposes
2023 to 2025 - J-20B starts production with fully mature WS-15 engines (end goal 170-180kN)

This is where the 2023 figure comes from! It means the commencement of full scale WS-15 production.

Pardon, but this claim is even more ridiculous that Asok's WS-15 from day one theory!! ... any hint where You got that idea??

- three production lines ... one with AL-31, 2 with WS-10G
- a fourth production line ????
- WS-15 from 2019 on ???


We just put that strange WS-15-theory to rest and now You come up with this.

Even Chinese reports now claim that "Latest fighter jets to use domestically made engines by 2022: experts" (http://english.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-09/13/content_7753378.htm)

... so no chance of a WS-15 already in 2019.

And Your comparison to the F-16 using different engines is way off since it was an industry-political decision to give both PW and GE each half of the cake.

Come on ... stay realistic. No more wet-dreams.

Deino

@Asoka doesn't post anymore. I wonder if it's because of the WS-10X revelation

 

[Deino]

I think he means a 2019 appearance of WS-15 on a J-20 testbed ...

He spoke expressis verbis from a "The new forth line will start by 2019 with ws15". IMO this hints in his opinion claeryl serial production. ... IMO no chance.

 

[Han Patriot]

Or that report at all if plain inaccurate at best !

No offense, but what is considered accurate then? If CCTV is not accurate, Chinamil is not accurate, then what kind of information can be considered accurate? A tweet from pupu?

All we know, the latest J20 is using this WS-10C, rather than WS-10B.

 

[Deino]

No offense, but what is considered accurate then? If CCTV is not accurate, Chinamil is not accurate, then what kind of information can be considered accurate? A tweet from pupu?

All we know, the latest J20 is using this WS-10C, rather than WS-10B.

From what do we know that ?? So far the this mystical WS-10C was never ever mentioned and only the WS-10B connected as the latest family member to the J-20A. Now with this IMO strange report suddenly a WS-10C is mentioned is expressis verbis connected with the J-11B ... so how do You come to the conclusion that this WS-10C is now the J-20's engine???

Deino

 

[lmjiao]

No offense, but what is considered accurate then? If CCTV is not accurate, Chinamil is not accurate, then what kind of information can be considered accurate? A tweet from pupu?

All we know, the latest J20 is using this WS-10C, rather than WS-10B.

Even though it is hardly to image, but what you suggested is actually the reality. Except for some official report from sth like 《新闻联播》, usually pupu is much more reliable than CCTV or Chinamil.

If you are Chinese mil fan, you know what I mean.