The Indian Rafale: Why Pakistan Should Celebrate! -Opinion (ALL Rafale posts here please)

[wiseone2]

Totally hopeless argument by 'Professional' to hide Pakistan's coming danger .
A. MMRCA was for 126 aircraft to be produce in India under 'make in India' initiative . this aircraft are to replace mig-27 and Jaguar not mig-21 , LCA will replace Mig-21. as the negotiation process is long and 36 procure direct from France other minimum 90 will be produce in India . total number may rise to 189
B. They might have consider the life cycle cost of the Aircraft if not then the negotiation would be so long
C. i think you mean competitive procurement in the region refer to Pakistan . what is Pakistan option now ?
F. Rafale is politically more sound platform then Eurofighter as its coming from one country you effectively please only one country instead of 3~4 country .

Unless pakistan patches up with America the paf will not be inducting any sophisticated combat aircraft for a while
their hopes rest on china. china's purchases of russian su-35a is not a good omen in the short run

 

[jaiind]

@Manticore why -ve rating for me,mate. what offence i made in that post??

Its a serious topic

Dont make one momin=10 kafir, 1 jft=rafale, and jannat hoorain coments. Dont post gifs

Lets have serious discussions

While addressing OP, remain respectable

when did i made dis respectable comments against any member. i have lot of faith on jf 17 against Indian aggression so i quoted jf 17.

 

[Manticore]

@Manticore why -ve rating for me,mate. what offence i made in that post??

@Manticore why -ve rating for me,mate. what offence i made in that post??

Its a serious topic

Dont make one momin=10 kafir, 1 jft=10rafale, and jannat hoorain coments. Dont post gifs




To all members,
Lets have serious discussions
While addressing OP, remain respectable

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

1.By acquiring PL-12d along with J-10c.
2.By acquiring Eurofighter along with meteor.
3.By acquiring latest F-16 with Aim-120d.
Frankly I don't think another option is available,now sir what will be your Ans of same question?

Just months ago, PAF could not afford to buy 8 x F-16.
Don't think a lot have changed since then.

Fact is that Pakistan needs to build an economy, and take care of its citizens,
more than trying to compete with an economy that almost dwarves Yours.

 

[zebra7]

How well versed are you about pl 15 ongoing development cycle and the worries which it is causing american generals ? If you knkw or dont know still this reply reeks of utter ignorance or a troll attempt at best

Then enlighten me Sir. With due respect, PL-15 would be the one which will be declared as the answer of the Meteors, because for firing the BVR you need the plane, radars and other electronics, and you cannot use F-16s for firing any other BVRs, what is left is the CAC/PAC's FC-1/JF-17, which have Chinese Radar, Chinese pylon and ejectors, so naturally the BVR would be the Chinese. Second with the patrioism as a pakistani you would not see various things, that's why I don't mentioned few things about the Chinese weapons you boasts. So lets give it a try then. Look at the Chinese thinking, they are trying to get the market share in the global market export, and creating a wide array of choices, but still they follow the chinese thinking. They copied the concepts, and try to take advantage by showing and creating a cheaper/non western choise of the popular weapon. Take e.g Brahmos, they are trying to now develop CX-1, J-31 meant for export, atleast it look like F-31 externally, PL-15 trying to make the chinese meteors. But they are inferior to those which they are trying to prove that its the Chinese alternative with advantage and Cheaper cost.

 

[ghazi768]

Today marks the official signing of the long awaited, discussed, contested contract of Rafale aircraft for Indian Air Force. Enter the first western designed fifth generation multi-role fighter aircraft, most suitable for Indian desire of airspace domination over the sub-continent.

However, I find today as the real reason for celebration across many circles, including Pakistan's military community. Why, you may reckon? The procurement of 36 Rafales is exactly where India should not be.

Here is my opinion!

A) The selection of Rafale, after many painstaking years was to replace the Migs of India, which are in hundreds. Out of 120 aircraft, only 36 are being procured, which defeats the purpose of the induction.

B) The French Dassault are notoriously expensive. The "cost through life" of their bird is 6 times any of its contemporary, ensuring that budget will always be short, and always be tight.

C) Till the time the aircraft capabilities are fully realized, it would already be fully neutralized by competitive procurements in the region.

D) Once Indian pilots fly the Rafale, the interest in TEJAS will diminish further, creating an internal battle of buying foreign versus building local, hence jeopardizing both programs.

E) The Rafale aircraft purchase kills the "make in india" dream of the Modi government, which shows that this decision is a panic decision to stop gap fill the entirely low serviceability rates of IAF, combined with shrinking squadron numbers and lack of pilots.

F) The Rafale deal essentially closes the door in Indian Air Force for BAE Systems Eurofighter Typhoon, and BAE Systems ES products. This will re-open the opportunity of other countries to access the platform/avionics from these sources.

G) Rafale program is essentially a lame duck political approach, which exemplifies the military policy of the state being run by civilians, never coming up to the expectation of uniformed professionals.

H) Rafale deal is highly suspected of big bribes from the French to all levels within the Indian administration, MOD, and IAF, which will eventually come out and further derail any future procurement plans of IAF to meet the existing and future requirements.

Did you brace yourself for the full onslaught before posting this opinion for the whole troll brigade

On a serious note, I'll love to read detailed arguments for each of the points you have mentioned. Thanks

 

[Windjammer]

Why all the hype, agreed Rafale is a potent system but don't forget it first flew 30 years ago in 1986 and went to production 15 years later in 2001. The first Indian aircraft will be delivered in 18 months time meaning 2018, add another year or more before a squadron becomes operational meaning around 2020. Be sure by that time all the euphoria would have died down as new weapons and systems would be making headlines.

 

[Manticore]

Did you brace yourself for the full onslaught before posting this opinion for the whole troll brigade

On a serious note, I'll love to read detailed arguments for each of the points you have mentioned. Thanks

Would like your input on the topic as well!

 

[hussain0216]

Just months ago, PAF could not afford to buy 8 x F-16.
Don't think a lot have changed since then.

Fact is that Pakistan needs to build an economy, and take care of its citizens,
more than trying to compete with an economy that almost dwarves Yours.

???
We are buying 5 billion worth of Submarines, you think we csnt buy a few F16s?


The F16s were offered to us at a subsidised cost, then the terms sale/cost changed at the point of sale

Something which we refused to agree to




Everyone relax, we all know what bull shitters, overreaction prone emotional people indians are



Pakistan will continue to build up a deterrence and a effective response, we have known about the Raphael sale for a decade now

It was only the slow indian process that has given us so much time

 

[Z-A-K]

i dont believe all of the points mentioned, the planners at indian sides are not fools, the rafales come with TOT so it would be ultimately made in india, and these birds are currently the best offering through all of the available plateforms, and the point of bribes from french, come on, dont be bharti media please, cut the cr*p,
need more constructive discussion here

 

[monitor]

Unless pakistan patches up with America the paf will not be inducting any sophisticated combat aircraft for a while
their hopes rest on china. china's purchases of russian su-35a is not a good omen in the short run

If Pakistan can purchase more F-16 block 52 and upgrade the existing F-16 in F-16V standard situation can turn around Pakistan favor. but considering recent development its questionable whither US will sell more F-16 to Pakistan and approve any upgrade . Getting Chinese J-31 is the only viable option along with extensive upgrade of JF-17 program along with LRSAM . SU-35 also a great option but we have to wait what actually coming .

Why all the hype, agreed Rafale is a potent system but don't forget it first flew 30 years ago in 1986 and went to production 15 years later in 2001. The first Indian aircraft will be delivered in 18 months time meaning 2018, add another year or more before a squadron becomes operational meaning around 2020. Be sure by that time all the euphoria would have died down as new weapons and systems would be making headlines.

F-16 too fly 40 years ago and continue to upgrade and plan to keep going till 2040 . so Rafale fly 30 years ago don't mean they are bad . India will eventually get latest F3R version not anything from 1986 except aircraft.
next best aircraft Euro fighter and SU-35 or Chinese Flanker or J-31 ?

 

[Rupeshkumar]

Why all the hype, agreed Rafale is a potent system but don't forget it first flew 30 years ago in 1986 and went to production 15 years later in 2001. The first Indian aircraft will be delivered in 18 months time meaning 2018, add another year or more before a squadron becomes operational meaning around 2020. Be sure by that time all the euphoria would have died down as new weapons and systems would be making headlines.

Do you mean, by that time new weapons and system would be making headlines and your country will have them?

 

[Raider 21]

Why all the hype, agreed Rafale is a potent system but don't forget it first flew 30 years ago in 1986 and went to production 15 years later in 2001. The first Indian aircraft will be delivered in 18 months time meaning 2018, add another year or more before a squadron becomes operational meaning around 2020. Be sure by that time all the euphoria would have died down as new weapons and systems would be making headlines.

Great decision for them and it is a great jet. Just not sure how the deal will go for them as most of the IAF deals have had ups and downs over the last 3 decades....worked with a BAE Systems engineer on the Hawk 100s so heard his point of views when the Indian government would order jets for their air force.

 

[Windjammer]

.
F-16 too fly 40 years ago and continue to upgrade and plan to keep going till 2040 . so Rafale fly 30 years ago don't mean they are bad . India will eventually get latest F3R version not anything from 1986 except aircraft.
next best aircraft Euro fighter and SU-35 or Chinese Flanker or J-31 ?

Who said anything about the Rafale being bad, i said it's a potent system . The F-16 indeed did first fly over 40 years ago but don't forget say Pakistan has been operating this system for over 30 years also.
My point is the Rafale was selected over three years ago, by now it should have been operational in squadron service with IAF....but that will not be the case for say at least four years.

Do you mean, by that time new weapons and system would be making headlines and your country will have them?

We may or may not but you can be sure China will have them. !!!

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

1.By acquiring PL-12d along with J-10c.
2.By acquiring Eurofighter along with meteor.
3.By acquiring latest F-16 with Aim-120d.
Frankly I don't think another option is available,now sir what will be your Ans of same question?

Unfortunately we will get NONE of it,

1. J10 are out of question, PAF is fully committed with J17 and its blocks
2. EFT is way too expensive and they will never sell us such advance piece of technology
3. No "latest" F16 No Aim120D, look point 2

Hope it helps, goodday

1 jf17=10 rafales

Exactly