The Indian Rafale: Why Pakistan Should Celebrate! -Opinion (ALL Rafale posts here please)

[hussain0216]

If You are not buying at full price, and the US are not selling at subsidized cost,
you are not getting any. It is as simple as that.

Yes thats the case

They said they would be subsidised, we thought oh great deal

Then the had some political issues and suddenly deal changed

We refused to buy


Apart from getting used F16s and MLUing them as a boost to our f16 stock its over and we are moving on

 

[Windjammer]

I see, you mean they shall have J20.


Not sure about China, but surely pakistan wont have anything to counter it by 2020, even if you start the process today...

You guys said same about MKI.....then what happened in 2008 is an open secret....anyways that's another story but let's not jump the gun and talk about future, your main concern should be whether the Rafale will even be operational with IAF by 2020.

 

[Super Falcon]

Today marks the official signing of the long awaited, discussed, contested contract of Rafale aircraft for Indian Air Force. Enter the first western designed fifth generation multi-role fighter aircraft, most suitable for Indian desire of airspace domination over the sub-continent.

However, I find today as the real reason for celebration across many circles, including Pakistan's military community. Why, you may reckon? The procurement of 36 Rafales is exactly where India should not be.

Here is my opinion!

A) The selection of Rafale, after many painstaking years was to replace the Migs of India, which are in hundreds. Out of 120 aircraft, only 36 are being procured, which defeats the purpose of the induction.

B) The French Dassault are notoriously expensive. The "cost through life" of their bird is 6 times any of its contemporary, ensuring that budget will always be short, and always be tight.

C) Till the time the aircraft capabilities are fully realized, it would already be fully neutralized by competitive procurements in the region.

D) Once Indian pilots fly the Rafale, the interest in TEJAS will diminish further, creating an internal battle of buying foreign versus building local, hence jeopardizing both programs.

E) The Rafale aircraft purchase kills the "make in india" dream of the Modi government, which shows that this decision is a panic decision to stop gap fill the entirely low serviceability rates of IAF, combined with shrinking squadron numbers and lack of pilots.

F) The Rafale deal essentially closes the door in Indian Air Force for BAE Systems Eurofighter Typhoon, and BAE Systems ES products. This will re-open the opportunity of other countries to access the platform/avionics from these sources.

G) Rafale program is essentially a lame duck political approach, which exemplifies the military policy of the state being run by civilians, never coming up to the expectation of uniformed professionals.

H) Rafale deal is highly suspected of big bribes from the French to all levels within the Indian administration, MOD, and IAF, which will eventually come out and further derail any future procurement plans of IAF to meet the existing and future requirements.

Some how I agree

 

[Dazzler]

It is quite sad to see how most members have behaved and reacted in this thread. Instead of sensible arguments backed by reason, they started pointing fingers to the OP. @Bilal Khan 777 has merely given an opinion, do you guys understand?

Instead of ridiculing, why not put on your thinking cap and bring your reasons and counter opinions?

 

[Centurion2016]

The BIGGEST issue with some posters in this Forum is shear IGNORANCE . or Worse DENILE

India has just inducted the 3rd best Combat plane in the world costing $100 million each. You ridicule them whislt PAF inducts used 30 year old falcons ..

The Rafale purchase of 36 planes is the START there will be further tranche orders of Rafale ie IF FGFA is delayed post 2025 IAF will fill gap with more Rafale. If CHINA really inducts J20 in 2020 IAF again may induct more Rafale.

Future IAF will consist of three Types

Heavey Fighters SU30MKI & POST 2025 fgfa from Russia designed and built in joint ventures

Rafale Mirage2000 combo medium weight fighters current 86 ie 50+ 36 BUT likely to cross 100 or even 120

Finally TEJAS minimum 120 ..... maybe double this post 2025

mig27 HAVE GONE
MIG21 WILL BE gone only 120 bison remaining

MIG29 will scrapped when FGFA starts arriving or next order of Rafal.

THERE S CLEAR PLAN much discussed much researched IAF took their time and evaluated every dsingle fighter bar the CHINEASE to arrive at current plan.

ALL OPTIONS where open

Rather than ridicule IAF ask yourself how the Thunder pilot or MLU F16 pilot will cope in a environment of

AESA radar
Meteore/mica BVRS
EW spectra suites

The Indians are absolutrely delighted I am 99% certain when rafale arrives and they see the near 100% serviceability lethal weapons and stealth and surviuval capababilties further orders will follow

 

[Dazzler]

The BIGGEST issue with some posters in this Forum is shear IGNORANCE . or Worse DENILE

India has just inducted the 3rd best Combat plane in the world costing $100 million each. You ridicule them whislt PAF inducts used 30 year old falcons ..

The Rafale purchase of 36 planes is the START there will be further tranche orders of Rafale ie IF FGFA is delayed post 2025 IAF will fill gap with more Rafale. If CHINA really inducts J20 in 2020 IAF again may induct more Rafale.

Future IAF will consist of three Types

Heavey Fighters SU30MKI & POST 2025 fgfa from Russia designed and built in joint ventures

Rafale Mirage2000 combo medium weight fighters current 86 ie 50+ 36 BUT likely to cross 100 or even 120

Finally TEJAS minimum 120 ..... maybe double this post 2025

mig27 HAVE GONE
MIG21 WILL BE gone only 120 bison remaining

MIG29 will scrapped when FGFA starts arriving or next order of Rafal.

THERE S CLEAR PLAN much discussed much researched IAF took their time and evaluated every dsingle fighter bar the CHINEASE to arrive at current plan.

ALL OPTIONS where open

Rather than ridicule IAF ask yourself how the Thunder pilot or MLU F16 pilot will cope in a environment of

AESA radar
Meteore/mica BVRS
EW spectra suites

The Indians are absolutrely delighted I am 99% certain when rafale arrives and they see the near 100% serviceability lethal weapons and stealth and surviuval capababilties further orders will follow

Yet another stupid post, what this has to do with the topic?

Are you Storm Force by some chance?

 

[skyisthelimit]

PAF will bring the nightmare to your IAF don't worry behind the screen hero

Bhai accept the sense of humor. Sub cheez seriously nahi lene chahiye. We have fanboys everywhere.

 

[Windjammer]

@Centurion2016, rather fancy of you to use such terms as IGNORANCE and DENILE ( denial ).
This what you posted elsewhere in essence is called denial or worse Egg in the face. Yet here you are again chest thumping while still displaying false flags......Any regrets. !!!

 

[Dazzler]

You guys said same about MKI.....then what happened in 2008 is an open secret....anyways that's another story but let's not jump the gun and talk about future, your main concern should be whether the Rafale will even be operational with IAF by 2020.

Seriously, some of the fanboys know zilch about weapon systems and talk as if they have flown the darn thing themselves.

They do not even realize that PAF is not an isolated force, rather has enough resources and technology to handle the IAF any day despite Rafale's acquisition. This is where tactics come into equation.

Now see them swarming in with no brainier arguments and chest thumping with the so called THIRD BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD.

Absurd!

 

[IceCold]

Just months ago, PAF could not afford to buy 8 x F-16.

This is nonsense which is usually propagated by Indians. Fact is Pakistan can very much afford to buy 8 F-16s. The reason we backed out was not money but we wanted the Americans to honour the original deal reached during Nawaz Sharif visit to the US where Obama offered these jets. Since they did not honour the deal, we backed out.

 

[Dazzler]

@Centurion2016, rather fancy of you to use such terms as IGNORANCE and DENILE ( denial ).
This what you posted elsewhere in essence is called denial or worse Egg in the face. Yet here you are again chest thumping while still displaying false flags......Any regrets. !!!

I never had a shadow of doubt that this chap is a false flagger. Guess you just nailed it.

 

[Windjammer]

Seriously, some of the fanboys know zilch about weapon systems and talk as if they have flown the darn thing themselves.

They do not even realize that PAF is not an isolated force, rather has enough resources and technology to handle the IAF any day despite Rafale's acquisition. This is where tactics come into equation.

Now see them swarming in with no brainier arguments and chest thumping with the so called THIRD BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD.

Absurd!

Why are you surprised at all, not long ago, the terms for MKI, often used were, Invincible, untouchable, indestructible and above all.....Rapptor of the East.......Rapptor as we all know has to be the number one, now i guess they have settled for Third best.

 

[Centurion2016]

I am keen to understand the resources /technology you referring too.

AND please donmt be so agitated or angry its a forum for godsake

 

[Dazzler]

Why are you surprised at all, not long ago, the terms for MKI, often used were, Invincible, untouchable, indestructible and above all.....Rapptor of the East.......Rapptor as we all know has to be the number one, now i guess they have settled for Third best.

And the only thing that could come close was the F-22. Unreal stuff man.

 

[deckingraj]

Induction of Rafael is not that bad as India already operate french platform, Mirage. But it is nevertheless a new platform which requires training of service-staff, pilots and then integration of armament, development of offensive / defensive strategies in collaboration with what India already has. 36 Jets also mean India can only keep them at one or two airbases only and its strategic scattering on multiple airports wouldn't be possible.

In my opinion, a war with India is due within next 2 years. My question here is that will India be able to absorb Rafael within this time-frame + would its pilots have developed skills to use this platform effectively?

If i can recall correct the idea is to start parallel training of our Pilots using the French available platforms..this is expected to shave off some learning curve....Second bold part is hell no...god know how you calculated two years but there is no way rafael can perform any role in 2 years from now...