The Indian Fist ~Arjun MBT and Arjun Mark II

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

That is why Arjun is regarded as a failed project.

The army was satisfied with 124 tanks it has and has ordered for an additional 124 of them.

All those money wasted that could go into procuring other weapons or help the poor

You mean money spent.
In terms of opportunity costs,It would have been spent on upgrading the already existing T-72,

And about spending on the poor,thats a function of the economic growth.

. Instead it goes into nothing.

Read the first line again.

Lets say that India never undertake this project. Would its defense capability be hindered? No, it would have increased

If India never undertook this project,we"d be heavily dependent on foreign military supply,which isn't good.
We have to begin indegenisation at some point.

I believe India should focus on either Russian weapon

We are,Russians are our largest arms supplier.

or better yet, get some M1A3

If it meets the Army requirements and we get TOT,then it can be considered.

 

[ajtr]

Even if took 40 years or more it doesn't matter.
We didn't any experience here.

the design started in 1974.

the 1980-1990 Economic being closed,hence defense budgetary constraints.
Of course ,over the decades the Army will have newer requirements and the design may have to be redone all over again.

Whats the use of making a weapon system by the time it comes on deployment stage the tech becomes obsolete.

Russia has always been India's traditional supplier,so how does that have anything to do with failure of any project?

u read that wrong.

If the army was under such pressure to make purchases,why would the army make list of the deficiencies?,they would have straight away accepted it in 1996 trials.

army suggested for improvements coz tech has already became obsolete.

 

[ajtr]

I think instead of trolling you should understand that its our first try and we make a decent tank at last



May be you are a chief of army staff cause you know batter than other

u r the one who trolls not i.

 

[ganimi kawa]

1.Whats the use of making a weapon system by the time it comes on deployment stage the tech becomes obsolete.


2.army suggested for improvements coz tech has already became obsolete.

Gal, your favourite word seems to be "obsolete" so I request you to point out the no. and description of techs that are "obsolete" in the current Arjun mk1. And then we can take you seriously.

I respect a guy like somebozo who at least tried to put up his objections about Arjun with some technical backing.

You on the other hand, seem to be happy in posting only the rhetorics and no technical details!

If you want to do idle chit chat; go to the members section!

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Whats the use of making a weapon system by the time it comes on deployment stage the tech becomes obsolete.

No one predicted the 1980-90 economy being closed,None can predict if that 2015,USA will 6th generation fighters and we all will be chasing.

u read that wrong.

Can you be more clearer.

army suggested for improvements coz tech has already became obsolete.

In the 1996-97 trials the Army listed the deficiencies as
accuracy of gun at battle ranges, mission reliability, lethality of ammunition, containerisation of ammunition bin, emergency traverse and also the fire control system in particular has been found unable to perform in temperatures above 42 degrees Celsius

Tech being obsolete wasn't one of them,considering modern tanks too use Smooth bore ,of course,upgrades was secondary,when the basics weren't functioning.

 

[Ammyy]

u r the one who trolls not i.

But your post not support your claim

Just read your post one more time

army suggested for improvements coz tech has already became obsolete.

Can you put technical specification on what bases you tell this ???

This is called troll

I know now you dnt have any thing to say

 

[bhagat]

Off topic :

I failed to understand why there is lot of trolls suggesting India should spend money on poor instead of spending on military equipment R&d in space.most of these suggestions are coming from Pakistan and china. It’s like there is no poverty in these countries. Before suggesting you must look at your country. In 70’s there is lot of poverty in china despite of poverty china did invest lot of money in military at the same time china life its people from poverty. Same scenario applies for India. China growth story started 40 years ago and India growth story started 20 years ago
How can you grow if your borders are not safe? I am not saying all Chinese and Pakistani people are like this. India is one of the countries which shows its success and failure in same manner
In many discussions we took lot of examples from china. Each and every country has its own problems It’s their problem who are we to suggest

 

[rubyjackass]

What i simply pointed out was that the Mk I is obsolete and the Mk II is being developed. I don't see the rationale behind your aggressive approach however.

Regards,

Most Indians here are overly deluded with the pretty picture presented by the makers of Arjun. The fact remains that the testing process is not transparent. The criteria set for pitting T-90 against Arjun for example seem to be pre-set in a way Arjun performs better. I have no way of proving this, but I felt it when I read about the tests. DRDO has an interest to support its product no-matter-what both for financial reasons and for more sinister reasons personal to its bosses. This conflicts with the national interest of India many times. Any body familiar with the research institutions in India can tell about the way work is done in such organizations.

Most of the times for a decision maker it is just a case of picking a lesser evil, listening to a corruptible army guy and buying a foreign product or listening to DRDO and buying a possibly low quality homemade arms. There has to be an independent testing body which should test every machine in and out based on army's pre-stated requirements. So that IA cannot keep changing goal posts for DRDO and DRDO does not mess up.

 

[rubyjackass]

What else you expect from one tank?

On paper I can claim to be a hunk with Hrithik's looks buddy. The problem is with performance.

 

[WAQAS119]

YouTube - ARJUN TANK VS T-90 TANK , MAIN BATTLE TANK

Note::
Arjun's turret wasn't stable while it was passing through a rough road at 1:25 ?

 

[faithfulguy]

If India never undertook this project,we"d be heavily dependent on foreign military supply,which isn't good.
We have to begin indegenisation at some point.

We are,Russians are our largest arms supplier.

If it meets the Army requirements and we get TOT,then it can be considered.

I don't understand the purpose of getting TOT when nothing is being done with the transfered tech. another waste of money. I believe India has a defensive need and these needs are best met by purchasing weapons instead of trying to develop them. two reasons.
1. India is way behind others and
2. Being a democratic government, the direction and priority may shift over time. As a result, the country cannot put up a concerted effort to improve technology as something maybe a priority of one gov may be cancelled by another. As a result, this would hurt real technical improvement

In the US, we experience the change of mind with putting BMD in Czech and Poland because of the change of government. Same things could happen to the NMD and other major project. For example, F-22 got cancelled under the Democrat controlled president and congress.

 

[PoKeMon]

Arjun is not exactly an obsolete but very much loose the very meaning of its production after a delay of a decade.
What else you expect from a organisation whose watch is lagging 10 years behind the world.

 

[GORKHALI]

I don't understand the purpose of getting TOT when nothing is being done with the transfered tech. another waste of money. I believe India has a defensive need and these needs are best met by purchasing weapons instead of trying to develop them. two reasons.
1. India is way behind others and
2. Being a democratic government, the direction and priority may shift over time. As a result, the country cannot put up a concerted effort to improve technology as something maybe a priority of one gov may be cancelled by another. As a result, this would hurt real technical improvement

In the US, we experience the change of mind with putting BMD in Czech and Poland because of the change of government. Same things could happen to the NMD and other major project. For example, F-22 got cancelled under the Democrat controlled president and congress.

may i ask where you from ? Am not going to compare amerika ,russia nd europe who got long history of building high end arms n ammunation.. To me drdo doing best of it so called mere budget !! Every country have their expetise and some failures like indian EW AND RADARS are one of the best ,akash SAM is best in region in MR SAM SECTION.

 

[mautkimaut]

Note::
Arjun's turret wasn't stable while it was passing through a rough road at 1:25 ?

If you look carefully it was due to the tank lifting in air.other wise for the rough ride it was stable

 

[fallstuff]

I think experience earned is not lost by any means. It was a first shot, maybe a long shot at building tanks. India can take all the experience and pour into the next tank project.

For a country that needs thousands of tanks, building them locally makes more sense in the long run.