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The Great Muslim Warriors

Probably by sword. Islam has spread throughout the world both by sowrd and people accepted it volunterly. Persia(today Iran), Khurasan(today Afghanistan), Samarqand, Bukhara, Tajkistan, Turkmenistan, today pakistan etc were introduced to islam by force, other places such as indonesia, malaysia, philipines etc accepted islam due to peaceful means.

Think we are confusing expansion of Islamic state with the spread of Islam (conversion). I am ignoring expansion during Banu Umayyad. The motive at that time was pure expansion and exploitation of opportunity. However, up to the Rashideen, most of the expeditions were punitive. Only two campaigns; against Egypt and against Iran can be classified as expansionist as neither of the two countries attacked Muslim state.

Spread of Islam and large scale conversions on the other hand were not thru sword. On the contrary, once the infidels found that if you embraced Islam by declaring “La ilaha Illallah, Mohammad-ur-Rasullallah” invading forces were forbidden to loot your goods or enslave you and you don’t have to pay ‘Jizia’ or poll tax; the conquered population started declaring themselves Muslim as soon as it was known that Muslim army had won

Situation became so bad that later campaigns during Hazrat Omar (RA) were becoming financial liabilities. The great Caliph Omar (RA) was forced to introduce “Ushr” tax; that is one tenth of the agricultural produce to recover administrative and other costs. For the record most captured territories such as Syria,Iraq, Iran, Egypt and Yemen generated large agricultural produce whereas Mecca and Medina did not.

It is a great misconception that there were mass forced conversions. Some probably but not as a general rule.
 
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It is a great misconception that there were mass forced conversions. Some probably but not as a general rule.

There is no misconception about it from our (Iranian) point-of-view. Islam was spread in Iran and throughout the former Sassanid empire by conquest and subsequently largely through pressure, duress and force over a period of several centuries. This was true more-so in the east and northeast of Iran. There were many inducements made for Iranians to convert in order to receive social and economic benefits which were otherwise denied to the largely Zoroastrian Iranians. The process of conversion in Iran was slower in some areas than in others, but the overall process took a long time and never managed to “Islamize” or “Arabize” Iran. Revolts and rebellions against the Arabs and Islam were not uncommon in the north and northeast of Iran decades after the Sassanian collapse. When more zealous Moslem rulers were in power, inducements were often replaced with pressure or persecution. This is the reason why several waves of exile of Zoroastrians from Iran to India took place at various times between the 7th to 18th / 19th centuries.

It is my view that Iranian’s eventual acceptance of Islam had been possible largely because of the successful revolt against Arab domination and the revival of the Persian identity, language and culture in Iran after 2 centuries of Arab rule. Iranian’s were not only able to expel the Arabs but were able to then adapt, mould and influence the development of Islam, much like the Turks would later do themselves in their own area’s of influence. It was this later ability to adapt and to then shape Islam in a way of our choosing which is why Iranians eventually came to terms with being Moslem and therefore, had no need to revert back to Zoroastrianism.

But once again there is no misconception from our history and from our point-of-view of how Islam was brought to Iran and what was once a greater Iranian cultural sphere - this was by force.
 
islam in pakistan was spread by muslim saints whos shriness are spread all across subcontinent, and not through invading armies, it maybe a different case for other nations. similarly in indonesia islam was spread by invitation and not at all by arab armies.

invasion has never forced people of subcontinent to follow a certain religion, neither british nor arabs or mughals have forced them to become muslims or christians etc by bribe or fear of loot or plunder or by any means possible.

jiziya is a very different case, jiziya was never intended to force people into islam, it was a tax a lot lighter than what muslims had to pay in terms of zakat. jiziya was a very small money which non muslims had to give rich or poor alike, while a rich muslim had to pay more money in terms of zakat.
 
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I THINK ALL MUSLIMS WARRIORS ARE GREAT
 
Karthic
Give me references for what you are saying
I will not argue with you for what you personally think as it will have no substance.

It s not wat i think....
I have already said i will not say Islam in INdia was spread only by saints or only by sword..
it was a combination of both with the sword being the major factor.. and as a previous poster said it was largely to escape the oppression that was meted out to the non-beleivers or infidels rather than due to a genuine understanding of the Prophets teachings.
 
Think we are confusing expansion of Islamic state with the spread of Islam (conversion). I am ignoring expansion during Banu Umayyad. The motive at that time was pure expansion and exploitation of opportunity. However, up to the Rashideen, most of the expeditions were punitive. Only two campaigns; against Egypt and against Iran can be classified as expansionist as neither of the two countries attacked Muslim state.

Spread of Islam and large scale conversions on the other hand were not thru sword. On the contrary, once the infidels found that if you embraced Islam by declaring “La ilaha Illallah, Mohammad-ur-Rasullallah” invading forces were forbidden to loot your goods or enslave you and you don’t have to pay ‘Jizia’ or poll tax; the conquered population started declaring themselves Muslim as soon as it was known that Muslim army had won

Situation became so bad that later campaigns during Hazrat Omar (RA) were becoming financial liabilities. The great Caliph Omar (RA) was forced to introduce “Ushr” tax; that is one tenth of the agricultural produce to recover administrative and other costs. For the record most captured territories such as Syria,Iraq, Iran, Egypt and Yemen generated large agricultural produce whereas Mecca and Medina did not.

It is a great misconception that there were mass forced conversions. Some probably but not as a general rule.

Ushr can not be termed as Tax , Tax is haram in Islam , Jazia was implemented only for non muslims by Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
 
Ushr can not be termed as Tax , Tax is haram in Islam , Jazia was implemented only for non muslims by Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

You may call it by any other name, but 'Ushr' is levied at 10% of the agricultural produce and was introduced during the time of 2nd Caliph.
 
ای ایران;810466 said:
There is no misconception about it from our (Iranian) point-of-view. Islam was spread in Iran and throughout the former Sassanid empire by conquest and subsequently largely through pressure, duress and force over a period of several centuries. This was true more-so in the east and northeast of Iran. There were many inducements made for Iranians to convert in order to receive social and economic benefits which were otherwise denied to the largely Zoroastrian Iranians. The process of conversion in Iran was slower in some areas than in others, but the overall process took a long time and never managed to “Islamize” or “Arabize” Iran. Revolts and rebellions against the Arabs and Islam were not uncommon in the north and northeast of Iran decades after the Sassanian collapse. When more zealous Moslem rulers were in power, inducements were often replaced with pressure or persecution. This is the reason why several waves of exile of Zoroastrians from Iran to India took place at various times between the 7th to 18th / 19th centuries.

It is my view that Iranian’s eventual acceptance of Islam had been possible largely because of the successful revolt against Arab domination and the revival of the Persian identity, language and culture in Iran after 2 centuries of Arab rule. Iranian’s were not only able to expel the Arabs but were able to then adapt, mould and influence the development of Islam, much like the Turks would later do themselves in their own area’s of influence. It was this later ability to adapt and to then shape Islam in a way of our choosing which is why Iranians eventually came to terms with being Moslem and therefore, had no need to revert back to Zoroastrianism.

But once again there is no misconception from our history and from our point-of-view of how Islam was brought to Iran and what was once a greater Iranian cultural sphere - this was by force.



I have not denied that there were some forced conversions but majority were voluntary. You have yourself accepted this:

Quote

It is my view that Iranian’s eventual acceptance of Islam had been possible largely because of the successful revolt against Arab domination and the revival of the Persian identity, language and culture in Iran after 2 centuries of Arab rule. Iranian’s were not only able to expel the Arabs but were able to then adapt, mould and influence the development of Islam, much like the Turks would later do themselves in their own area’s of influence. It was this later ability to adapt and to then shape Islam in a way of our choosing which is why Iranians eventually came to terms with being Moslem and therefore, had no need to revert back to Zoroastrianism

Unquote

I have read Iranian history in detail and also am aware of the famous story of “hormuzaan”. Actually, Iranians (Barmaki) were running Muslim empire within a century.

To strengthen my argument that conversions to Islam were largely voluntary; let me ask you how did the Mongols and Tartars accept Islam?

Chengiz captured Islamic empire of Khwarizm Shah and laid waste to most of Iran. Sons of Halaku ruled it as Il Khans, but after a century or so all converted There was neither compulsion there nor inducement. Even the Uzbeks; decedents of Jochi, who ruled Christian lands before they were expelled converted to Islam.

Centre of intellectual activity shifted eastwards a couple of centuries after advent of Islam. Nishapur/Tus was the hub of activity producing great men such as Nizamul MulkTusi, Omar Khayyam, Al Ghazali and even Firdousi. Even the great Imam Abu Hanifa was born at Kabul and of non Arab parentage.

In the Iberian Peninsula, Muslim ruled for 700 years, if there were forced conversions, most of the Spain would be Muslim today. On the other hand after the reconquest, Muslim population was given the choice of either converting to Christianity or leaving the country.

In the subcontinent, capital of the Afghan and Mughal empires was at Delhi and Agra, but percentage of Muslim population there is no more than 15 to 20%. On the other hand Muslims constitute the majority in the Western and Eastern peripheries.

IMO a lot of educated Muslims, not being fully aware of the history have accepted the Western propaganda as absolute truth.
 
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spread of islam by sword and forced conversions theories fail miserably when it comes to indonesia (largest muslim population) and malaysia
please dont discuss "expansion of islamic empire" and "propogation of islam" under this thread.

make another thread if you all want to discuss those topics.

if top 3 list to be compiled

1. Khalid bin walid (RA)
2. saad bin abi waqqas (RA)
3. salahuddin ayyubi
 
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Cheers

all the ppl couldn be converted because many gave their lives and the rest were ready to give their lives instead of converting to Islam.nd how much ppl can they exactly kill..?

I din mean Islam was spread entirely by sword but in India it was the majority method[/QUOTE]

what do you mean by "majority method" please explain :)
if you want to know what happens when a Ruler wants to impose a Religion ? read about Spanish Inquisition

has anything like that happened in India ?
 
all the ppl couldn be converted because many gave their lives and the rest were ready to give their lives instead of converting to Islam.nd how much ppl can they exactly kill..?

I din mean Islam was spread entirely by sword but in India it was the majority method

what do you mean by "majority method" please explain :)
if you want to know what happens when a Ruler wants to impose a Religion ? read about Spanish Inquisition

has anything like that happened in India ?[/QUOTE]

Have explained this to these indians several times, but they are so convinced in this propoganda they have been fed. They cant show any one example of massive forced conversions like the inquisitions in Spain and Portugal.
Ottoman Empire ruled the Balkans for 500 years hence if you follow these indians theories that muslim kings were religious bigots whose only aim was to make their subjects muslim then i just ask them, why are Greece, Armenia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro, Romania, Cyprus, Southern Ukraine, Croatia, Georgia and Hungary, Christain countries today?????
 
what do you mean by "majority method" please explain :)
if you want to know what happens when a Ruler wants to impose a Religion ? read about Spanish Inquisition

has anything like that happened in India ?

Have explained this to these indians several times, but they are so convinced in this propoganda they have been fed. They cant show any one example of massive forced conversions like the inquisitions in Spain and Portugal.
Ottoman Empire ruled the Balkans for 500 years hence if you follow these indians theories that muslim kings were religious bigots whose only aim was to make their subjects muslim then i just ask them, why are Greece, Armenia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro, Romania, Cyprus, Southern Ukraine, Croatia, Georgia and Hungary, Christain countries today?????[/QUOTE]

Then hw do u excplain the low presence of Muslims in south India and relatively more presence in north India..?that is because the south was relatively unaffected by muslim invasions.

nd hw u heard of aurangazeb ...?


anyways its useless to discuss hw islam spread as it has spread and today the muslims in India are as Indian as any hindu.
U guys carry on with ur whos the great warrior.
 
Great Muslim Warrior always fought with divine power , Mullah Omar fighting alone with ISAF (US+40 Countries) can be named as latest great muslim warrior.
 

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