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The Great Indian Ocean Game

What makes you think that China Navy started movements only after the 2000?

The 2nd generation Type-093 SSN had already been developed before the year 2000 and preliminary work had started on the 3rd generation Type-095 SSN. To give you an idea of the mammoth gap in SSN technology between China and India, China is now seat trialling it's 3rd generation Type-095 SSN while India is still yet to put it's 1st generation type out to sea. Not even Russia would give India the secrets to the latest cutting edge SSN designs.

I still do not understand why people think that Chinese military arms are inferior after the Chinese FD-2000 SAM win in Turkey over competitors from US/EU and Russia. Long-range SAMs are highly advanced systems and require very advanced sensor and rocket technology to develop.

It may be worth thinking why Pakistan cut the number of Saab Erieye order when they had a look at the Chinese ZDK-03 AWACs. Pakistanis can also be quoted to have been "pleasantly surprised" at the avionics, including the radar, of the JF-17.

China is not there yet, but 2030 would be a good date for the Chinese to be able to manufacture hi-tech arms in all fields.

"I still do not understand why people think that Chinese military arms are inferior after the Chinese FD-2000 SAM win in Turkey over competitors from US/EU and Russia"

The main reason is they directly copy other countries High tech- systems.HQ-9 SAM is direct copy of S-300V.At initial stage it may good .But Russians develop that system by years of money ,investment , hardwork and experience.Direct copy of that system cant be trustworthy.It is only half of the performance of real system.For that you must analyse the development of military technology
in cold war.US and USSR take same time and effort to develop a new thing.But chinese way is unbelievable ,that guys introduced too advanced technology in yearly basis.In 2011 it is j-20 and in 2012 it is j-31.Now these may comparable to f-22 and f-35.But f-22 is fly in 1997 and f-35 is in 2006.Look that,US take almost a decade difference between F-22 and F-35.But our chinese superhumans take only one year :lol:.And news coming about chinese hacking against LM for f-35.

Friend that is difference between chinese and rest of the world.So world think chinese system is inferior except Pakistan,BD and NK and some others.
Pakistan selected chinese system because they can assure there will be no sanction against Pakistan for the spares by the influence of India during the time of war.Chinese can ensure the 100% deliver and also cost advantage,You know chinese system is always cheaper.

You are right India develop its own nuclear submarine by it own technology.and mere consultation from Russia.
But at the time of cold war china get all support from USSR.But competing against India in IOR by PLAN is remain in your imagination.
No need ,a simple blockade in malacaa strait by IN is end game for resource hungry china
 
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sorry mate.

Aur bhi gham hain
duniyan main PDF kay siwa :lol:

This thread is toast. Sorry to say.

SreeKumra has already won.

History stands defeated. :(

Peace

sorry bhai it is my mistake

No.Please read about the history of World War II.It is much more interesting and remarkably stunning than any fictional work piece The Japanese started receiving severe setbacks by the Australians in the Solomon Islands in the South West Pacific in 1942-43 itself. Please read why Gudalcanal was termed as the "starvation islands" by the Japanese.

While the allied fighters had little chances to win against the much superior and maneuverable "zeros",the Americans quickly learnt some vital lessons.The "Skip bombing techniques" and the B-25s and A-20s with delayed fuses made the end of Imperial Navy in 1943. Also,with the astonishing output of warships and fighter aircrafts by the Americans,the Japanese hardly had any chance to continue fighting for a longer duration.The Nuclear drop was merely a symbolic event when Japanese defeat in the World War II comes into discussion. It scarcely contributed anything to the American "victory" as such over the Japanese.Regards.

PS:Be aware of Mr.McArthur. After reading your post,he might resurrect from his grave and start haunting you.

sorry friend ,it is my mistake
 
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Slowly, steadily and stealthily, India is being encircled by its enemies—China and Pakistan in tacit understanding—in the maritime domain.

Not true.

India controls strait of Malacca and PLAN is not-yet- in position of projecting power in Indian Ocean.

Encircling India through naval bases is defiantly one-among many- strategy of China, but India is alerady countering.

Indian navy is witnessing huge expansion, it will get 4 LPDS, several destroyers and frigates, 4-5 SSBNs and 2 more ACs in coming years.

With this, Indian navy will be a very formidable force capable of deep power projection.
 
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man!, u should be in pakistan's intelligence service, they would love u for sure. LOL

forget not, we have 4 stealth frigates, chinese and pakistanis wont even gonna know what hit them in case of a war.

:lol: :lol: I bet IN dont even know how their ship sink..

Not true.

India controls strait of Malacca and PLAN is not-yet- in position of projecting power in Indian Ocean.

Encircling India through naval bases is defiantly one-among many- strategy of China, but India is alerady countering.

Indian navy is witnessing huge expansion, it will get 4 LPDS, several destroyers and frigates, 4-5 SSBNs and 2 more ACs in coming years.

With this, Indian navy will be a very formidable force capable of deep power projection.

That will be 30 years before IN acquire those ships. Look at your INS Kolkata, its not commission yet and Barak 8 SAM supposed to install onboard is throwed into turmoil.

PLAN 3 LPD 071 has already commissioned with 16 Type054A VLS Stealth frigate. 4 Type052C Long range VLS destroyer. Until now, IN still do not have a decent destroyer for Navy air defense.

You still have to deal with ASBM that can hit most ship in India Ocean.
 
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:lol: :lol: I bet IN dont even know how their ship sink..



That will be 30 years before IN acquire those ships. Look at your INS Kolkata, its not commission yet and Barak 8 SAM supposed to install onboard is throwed into turmoil.

PLAN 3 LPD 071 has already commissioned with 16 Type054A VLS Stealth frigate. 4 Type052C Long range VLS destroyer. Until now, IN still do not have a decent destroyer for Navy air defense.

You still have to deal with ASBM that can hit most ship in India Ocean.

No. It will be much quicker than this.

By 2020 we will have 2-3 Aircraft (Viki+IAC 1) carriers and at least 2 SSBNs ready to serve.
 
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Till two decades ago, India ruled the waters of the Indian Ocean with its powerful Navy, becoming the first Asian nation to operate both an aircraft carrier and a nuclear-powered submarine. That was then. Now, the country is facing its worst challenge in the same turbulent waters.
Slowly, steadily and stealthily, India is being encircled by its enemies—China and Pakistan in tacit understanding—in the maritime domain.
The Indian Navy lies weakened by its fleet growing into obsolescence and its frontline warships and submarines falling prey to avoidable accidents like the explosions that destroyed top notch INS Sindhurakshak kilo class submarine on August 14.
It is the same Navy that in 1971 trounced Pakistan in one-on-one maritime battles in the Indian Ocean region, striking Chittagong, Cox’s Bazaar on the East by the Sea Hawk combat planes on board INS Vikrant aircraft carrier and Karachi on the West with P-15 Termit anti-ship missiles.
This undeterred naval action from the Indian Navy during the peak of the 1971 war came despite the US under Richard Nixon tilting in favour of Pakistan and sending its aircraft carrier from the 7th Fleet to the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India.
But, since the HDW submarine procurement row, the Indian Navy prowess has been hit, badly at that, by the Indian political leadership’s indecision on augmenting the ageing fleet of warships and submarines.
The result is the Navy is left with just 20 major surface combatants such as INS Vikramaditya and INS Viraat aircraft carriers, destroyers and frigates, while its submarine fleet is down to just 13 vessels.
The much-touted plans to have 24 submarines as replacement for the ageing fleet of Indian Navy submarines by 2030 is already delayed by a decade and the required submarine fleet strength is not likely till 2040 at this rate.
In such a scenario, comes the Indian Navy’s tussle with the Chinese for supremacy in the Indian Ocean region. The first taste of things to come was reported in 2008, the year Chinese warships ventured into the Indian Ocean region for the first time on the pretext of joining the anti-pirate crusade in the Gulf of Aden.
Chinese media screamed in January 2009 that the two Chinese Destroyers sailing to Gulf of Aden in late 2008, two years ahead of schedule, were snooped upon by an Indian submarine, which was forced to surface by the Chinese warships with a threat to torpedo it.
The Indians denied the incident, but the message was clear: The great Indian Ocean game had crossed the half-way mark.
India has maintained that the Indian Ocean region is its responsibility. But Beijing is challenging that.
But Indian Ocean region has always had too many powers, be it the Americans, the British or the French, operating here from their own or leased territories and bases, considering that 80 per cent of the world’s seaborne trade, primarily oil, pass through these sea lanes.
“The rapid growth of both Indian and Chinese economies has led to increasing reliance on energy and raw materials transported by sea. This has focused sharp attention on the criticality, for both economies, of uninterrupted use of the sea-lanes for trade and energy transportation. Thus, while the PLA Navy makes forays into the Indian Ocean, the Indian Navy has newfound commitments in the South China Sea,” says former Indian Navy chief Admiral Arun Prakash on the dynamics at play.
China has steadfastly cultivated nations and neighbours of India under its policy that is loosely described as String of Pearls and India has been slow in countering it with its own presence in South China Sea, the Gulf and Africa.
The US in June 2013 reaffirmed the Obama Administration’s 2011 policy of rebalancing of its maritime forces to the Asia-Pacific region, highlighting how critical the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean region are today.
If there was to be a maritime showdown in the Indian Ocean anytime now, Indian Navy would have to face the combined strength of the Chinese and the Pakistani navies. And in such a scenario, Indian Navy may find itself in a crunch, due to inherent weaknesses in its fleet.
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Some interesting comments from Tamils and Indians.
Comments(11)
Australia doesn't need to build more submarines. All we need do is invite the distinguished officials of Algeria, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Italy, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, Netherlands, North Korea, Norway, Pakistan, China, Taiwan, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Venezuela and Vietnam down to an outback barbecue. Ask them all to turn up with the billions of dollars that they would otherwise have spent purchasing new submarine fleets. Then everyone can just sit around eating a nice meal, having a ginger beer and enjoying festivities, while the treasurers from each country take turns tossing great wads of money onto the bonfire. This way we can all be friends, with no-one any longer having cause to feel threatened by the others' torpedoes.
Posted by Eamonn Gosney at 12/01/2013 16:10 Reply to this Report abuse
India betrayed the TAMILS... heavy price to be paid..
Posted by kabilan manoharan at 12/02/2013 00:36 Reply to this Report abuse
India , did not . But some of the Tamil groups play this dirty game along with the Chinese.
Posted by johnsw at 12/02/2013 01:28 Reply to this Report abuse
When LTTE attacked IPKF they signed their death warrants then and there. India made sure they all die painfully and slowly. If you don't stand with us, you stand against us. Simple. India First.
Posted by Mazo at 12/02/2013 02:51 Reply to this Report abuse
It was IPFK who attacked LTTE (a group that was trained by Indira's India) and killed innocent Tamils. To date, there is a memorial near Jaffna Hospital for the victims of IPFK's killings and rapes. After those massacres, you lost the sympathies of Tamils, and the main responsible Rajiv Gandhi got blown up in the same process. Even today Hindia is playing a dirty game with Tamils. They boycott CHOGM (to satisfy the parties in Tamil Nadu) but want to give military training to Sri Lankan soldiers. We are not fools and watching you carefully. It's really sad because we were never against India until the day IPFK started killing our people.
Posted by a Sri Lankan Tamil at 12/02/2013 17:01 Reply to this Report abuse
The national security of India , in the real sense, implies, the security of the people and not the vested interests of the ruling party. Starting from Srimao-Sastri pact, Kachatheevu pact, & later handling Srilankakan North-east Tamils' issue, the center failed to consult TN govt & political parties, violating the federal spirit of the constitution & encouraging separatist tendencies in TN - forgetting its potential advantage to the enemies of India. Unless this kind of suicidal short-coming on the part of central govt is reversed, no amount of investment to strengthen our defense forces will be of any use to safeguard India.
Posted by Gandhi at 12/02/2013 09:58 Reply to this Report abuse
Also none of the pro-LTTE TN groups dared to condemn China for supporting Rajapaksa in UN forums, while focusing on weakening India's tie with Srilanka. Ignoring China's annexation of Tibet & the sufferings of the Buddhists in Tibet, Srilanka had permitted the Chinese, to become a kind of future 'another Tibet' for China. Unless the true patriots in both the countries wake up, the govts will serve only the vested interests of the ruling party, sacrificing the interests of the people.
Posted by Gandhi at 12/02/2013 10:13 Reply to this Report abuse
India has a price to pay alright. Indians do not know the basics of nation building. Well the article has nothing to do with Sri Lankan Tamils . It is about Indian nay in the Indian ocean. In 1971 India had a strong naval force. India had only Pakistan to confront. China was not in the theater. Well the scenes and the theater are changed. China has become a dominent force and ofcourse has pushed India to the backyard. It is impossible for India to re-emerge as a force to reckon. Pakistan has increased her naval fleet as well, with China transforming Pakistan as a counter balance to India. While Pakistan becomes a conter balance to India, China will be a challenging force to the USA. It is altogether a new area in the Indian ocean. With Indian corruption, cancellation of orders, lack of expertise in mastering the technologies and above all without an arms industry, India will be a second hand power. India will wallow in her own follies for the next century.


Seriously ????????????? 4 pages for this ridiculous piece of stinking tripe of an article ???

Get real..... WAKE UP. Comedy circus chal raha hai kya ???

We don't need the AC's for pakistan. The AC's in Indian Ocean are of symbolic value until the day we have to face a navy of any serious calibre.

This is the current ORBAT for IN and this is the current ORBAT for PN.

We could probably take the entire inventory of the PN out with just the assets of our western command and get the boys home for whisky shishky the very same evening. The Carriers can serve as observation decks for folks who want a front seat for the spectacle.

Why are even arguing this ? They made their "atom bombs" because they are mortified of precisely such a scenario. We had, have and will continue having overwhelming conventional superiority in the INDIAN OCEAN. Period.

Aur article jai tel lene ..... idiots ..

Bleh time wasted


PS:
sorry @HAIDER Bhai tera kasoor nahi hai.

Found out the joker who wrote this article ...Bipindra NC (ncbipindra) on Twitter
Read his tweets chaps .. Jhonny Lever ka baap aa gaya hai :hitwall:
 
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The Indian Navy lies weakened by its fleet growing into obsolescence and its frontline warships

ROFL_Seal_by_ironmatt327.jpg


Talwar class

INS-Teg-Successfully-Finishes-Sea-Trials.jpg


Shivalik class

wIfHp.jpg


Kolkata class

Kolkata-Class-Destroyer-Indian-Navy.jpg


P 17 A

p17aconcept1w1.jpg
 
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I winder is this "article" was written during that period when there was all that hype around the "string of pearls" and such? Remember that?! It's funny how all that noise has just suddenly stopped. Pakistan in the IOR is an irrelevence and it's pretty clear the PLA(N) is a LONG way from being a tru blue-water navy that can project itself in the IOR. The IN still has the intitive and is not sitting on its laurels- just look at its seemingly endless list of acqstions.
 
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The point that I am trying to make is that if China was to send 2 CBGs into the IOR to approach India that would tie up a lot of resources(most of the Navy and hundreds of land-based fighter aircraft) that India will find it hard to muster enough resources to deal with whatever situation it was facing and also protect all it's other borders.

In short, India will have to take into account the Chinese Navy for the first time in South Asian military situations.

You will not agree due to nationalism but facts are facts. A country that is 5 times richer and more industrially developed can do something like this against the weaker country.

If China has 5 CBGs and they send 2 CBGs to India, then they will be left with only 3 as the 2 sent to India would be destroyed.

I do not think China is so stupid to send its 2 CBGs to face the fury of the entire Indian navy backed by IA and IAF.

I will be extremely happy if they indeed send their 2 CBGs for target practise for India.

China's army is the most powerful in Asia even now. The gap will only grow larger by 2030. Russia and India will be left even further behind by then.

I am not trying to put down India down here but you are talking, by 2030, the richest country in the world and also one of the most technologically advanced as well.

bla bla bla bla.... gap is increasing.. where is the proof?

Infact the gap is extremely less. Technology wise India is ahead of China in many fields.

Fact 1: In AIrforce, We have MKI much more superior to anything China has.

Fact 2: In Navy, Our ACs are much superior to what anything China has. We have 20 times more Naval experience then Chinese.
We also have Akula class submarine with IN. China's best nuke sub is not as good as Akula.

Fact 3: In cruise Missiles, we have Brahmos. China has no comparison.

Fact 4: Our IA has the world's best mountain warfare experience. what does China has in comparison?

The only area where China leads is that it has a bigger economy but technology wise overall its India who leads over China.

Going into 2030 the Indian Armed Forces would have a formidable lead over China in terms of technology. In fact the tables would have turned by then.

Right now its China which has a slight advantage over India (due to its huge numbers), by 2030 it would be India who would have advantage over China.
 
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@UKBengali
1.you are considering only china and ignoring every other country.by that time india will have additional mountain corps,new howitzers,f-insas,rafales,fgfa,atleast 3 cbg,nuclear subs,new stealth frigates.and it would be anything but easy for china to afford a war we might not be in a position to attack china but our defences would be strong enough to protect ourselves.with india.any such war would be more a stale mate.
2.the most important fact is even though china would be more powerful it also would have many enemies.india in contrast donot have to concentrate on so many countries.
3.the worst of your assumptions is thinking that china would come in support of some other country.china would never support atleast directly any country in a war.it simply worries about its own interests just like any other country..
any such war between india and china would be disastrous to the economies of both countries and both will try to avoid any direct confrontation.if at all any such confrontation occurs it'll be most probably because of our border disputes between both but not because china's intention to help any other country like india vs pak war.
 
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China could have around 5-6 carriers with 3 70-80, 000 tonne carriers and 2-3 100,000 nuclear carriers.

If you believe that a country could manufacture 9 aircraft carriers in 15 years, you are retarded beyond belief. It is not even a theoretical possibility. Even US with all it's experience and Industrial might requires 4 year to build a carrier.On top of it China does not have facilities to build more than one carrier at a time and their first indigenous carrier is still on paper.
 
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If you believe that a country could manufacture 9 aircraft carriers in 15 years, you are retarded beyond belief. It is not even a theoretical possibility. Even US with all it's experience and Industrial might requires 4 year to build a carrier.On top of it China does not have facilities to build more than one carrier at a time and their first indigenous carrier is still on paper.

6 in 15 years.

Someone is unable to count here.:crazy:
 
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China can send two carriers( say 1 nuclear and 1 conventional) by the route South of Australia, bypassing the Malacca straights entirely, and that would cause Indian a major headache. You forget that these 2 carriers will be escorted by many cruisers, destroyers and submarines and so it would be very powerful force indeed.

And a massive fuel guzzler also.

The reason that US is able to maintain it's carrier force is because it has Naval bases all over the world which means that it could easily supply it's fleet. Even though the AC maybe nuclear but accompanying ships are not and no country is going to provide supplies to an invading fleet.

A chinese presence in IOR reigon is impossible without bases and permanent stationing of naval assets to the south of India where India could not bottle up their navy (pakistan and bangladesh are useless as naval base, so is srilanka myanmar and thailand).
 
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