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The Ghazi That Defied The Indian Navy

PNS Ghasi mistaking a 19,500 tons aircraft carrier to a 2,411 tons R class destroyer..... PN zindabad

Falsely reported.
You would think intelligently that it is more likely for a lone Submarine Captain to be likely to hit his own mine in efforts to try and thoroughly block the channel..then go chasing after an aircraft carrier like the lone ranger..
Its never done in submarine warfare and NO PN Captain or any Submarine Captain has been this silly as much as some of the putrid crap that comes out of the Indian Propaganda machine would like us to think.

The Rajput probably came out to search for it, and sensing it.. the Ghazi decided to retreat .and in the haste ending up forgetting that it may have placed a mine in its own path.
 
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Falsely reported.
You would think intelligently that it is more likely for a lone Submarine Captain to be likely to hit his own mine in efforts to try and thoroughly block the channel..then go chasing after an aircraft carrier like the lone ranger..
Its never done in submarine warfare and NO PN Captain or any Submarine Captain has been this silly as much as some of the putrid crap that comes out of the Indian Propaganda machine would like us to think.

The Rajput probably came out to search for it, and sensing it.. the Ghazi decided to retreat .and in the haste ending up forgetting that it may have placed a mine in its own path.

But all of this, every thing posted on the thread on the entire thread from both sides is nothing but conjecture, no one really knows what exactly happened for sure. So whats the point in discussing this.
 
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But all of this, every thing posted on the thread on the entire thread from both sides is nothing but conjecture, no one really knows what exactly happened for sure. So whats the point in discussing this.

That I agree with , the death of the Ghazi will remain a mystery in the fog of war.
hence it is better to discuss what she DID accomplish than whatever was not.
 
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Indo-Pakistani Naval War of 1971
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Pakistan's PNS Ghazi sank off the fairway buoy of Visakhapatnam near the eastern coast of India, making it the first submarine casualty in the waters around the Indian subcontinent.

Pakistan's PNS Ghazi sank off the fairway buoy of Visakhapatnam near the eastern coast of India, making it the first submarine casualty in the waters around the Indian subcontinent.
Naval reconnaissance submarine operations were started by the Pakistan Navy on both eastern and western front.[citation needed] In the western theatre of the war, the Indian Navy, under the command of Vice Admiral S.N. Kohli, successfully attacked Karachi's port in Operation Trident on the night of 4–5 December, using missile boats, sinking Pakistani destroyer PNS Khyber and a minesweeper PNS Muhafiz; PNS Shah Jahan was badly damaged. 720 Pakistani sailors were killed or wounded, and Pakistan lost reserve fuel and many commercial ships, thus crippling the Pakistan Navy's further involvement in the conflict. Operation Trident was followed by Operation Python on the night of 8–9 December, in which Indian missile boats attacked the Karachi port, resulting in further destruction of reserve fuel tanks and the sinking of three Pakistani merchant ships.

In the eastern theatre of the war, the Indian Eastern Naval Command, under Vice Admiral Krishnan, completely isolated East Pakistan by a naval blockade in the Bay of Bengal, trapping the Eastern Pakistani Navy and eight foreign merchant ships in their ports. From 4 December onwards, the aircraft carrier INS Vikrant was deployed, and its Sea Hawk fighter-bombers attacked many coastal towns in East Pakistan including Chittagong and Cox's Bazaar. Pakistan countered the threat by sending the submarine PNS Ghazi, which sank en route under mysterious circumstances off Vishakapatnam's coast reducing Pakistan's control of Bangladeshi coastline. But on 9 December, the Indian Navy suffered its biggest wartime loss when the Pakistani submarine PNS Hangor sank the frigate INS Khukri in the Arabian Sea resulting in a loss of 18 officers and 176 sailors.

The damage inflicted on the Pakistani Navy stood at 7 gunboats, 1 minesweeper, 1 submarine, 2 destroyers, 3 patrol crafts belonging to the coast guard, 18 cargo, supply and communication vessels, and large scale damage inflicted on the naval base and docks in the coastal town of Karachi. Three merchant navy ships – Anwar Baksh, Pasni and Madhumathi – and ten smaller vessels were captured. Around 1900 personnel were lost, while 1413 servicemen were captured by Indian forces in Dhaka. According to one Pakistan scholar, Tariq Ali, the Pakistan Navy lost a third of its force in the war.
 
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^ Totally off topic comment.

A submarine has to be most efficient during war time. They are crucial arm of any navy. You can't justify failure of your submarine by colliding Indian ships.

Its like you defend your stupidity by saying other one also did some stupidity.

Let the discussion on Ghazi as you wanted it to be. :D
Great logic fishtank.......so ships can be reckless in peacetime.....:rofl:
 
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Even though those intelligent Indians can not steer a ship they did manage to kick your arse back then..speaks volume about your competence..and since we are nitpicking ..how about your aircraft strafing your own frigate and killing Pakistani crew members?
lol Thats why INS vikrant iwas hiding in Andmans till Ghazi was on prowl and only dared to come out when sinking of ghazi was spotted by fishermen.Gazi as Gen.Jacob said sank on 29th nov not on 3er/4th night of dec 1971.
 
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Under battle conditions, accidents occur, agreed, but one can't deny the incompetency of the people involved who can't perform in the scenario in which they are supposed to work at the first place. Why would you station sailors on most crucial arm of Navy who can't work at their best in war time. Their failure caused huge loss to PN as submarine like PN Ghazi was way too important.

I agree friendly fire and blue on blue attack occurs, that's why there is thorough investigation, not a cover up or brushing off the incompetency of the people involved.

For US destroyer accident, it was failure of US Navy as they overlooked a fault in the system which caused the loss.

Again, in military you don't find excuse for failure rather accept the failure. Its about accepting the incompetency and learning from it.

That's how any military force evolve. When US planned OBL raid, they were skeptical as similar raid to save American diplomats taken hostage in Iran failed. They lost their helicopters and few men while attempting Iran rescue. Iran failed rescue attempt was learning event for US Special forces.

Ask any military person on this forum, whatever the cause has been, one can't ignore that accident occurred due to lack of efficiency of the sailors at that situation.
And biggest incompetency is from IN claiming the accident as kill and decorating its officers with wartime Gallantry medals...seems that Ketchup colonel type traditions are quite deep rooted in indian forces.:lol:

Pakistanis never even bothered to conduct an official inquiry about the loss of Ghazi.Clearly shows their attitude.
And thats why IN destroyed all evidences of Ghazi it recovered so that to claim medals like ketchup colonel....quite competent IN ..yeh i must say...........:rofl:
 
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And biggest incompetency is from IN claiming the accident as kill and decorating its officers with wartime Gallantry medals...seems that Ketchup colonel type traditions are quite deep rooted in indian forces.:lol:

well from the outcome of the war, naval incompetence seems to on "your" nations side... (thats if you still continue the same flags) ... and when you are at starting threads on brilliance of ghasi and sinking of kukri... you might also be interested in starting threads on PNS Muhafiz, PNS Khaibar, PNS Shah Jahan, PNS Dacca ....

I leave you with a quote:

"At then end of conflict.... We [Eastern Naval Command] had no intelligence and hence, were both deaf and blind with the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force pounding us day and night....
—Admiral Mohammad Sharif "
 
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Introspection.....Why would I talk of Indian naval officer, whether he ran away or not, if the issue is sinking of PN Ghazi.

Don't dodge the real issue. US destroyer failed, the country which has world's best technology, simply put the destroyer was not worthy for war. In ideal condition, experimental products fail. PN Ghazi was deployed in war, totally tested, whereas LCA is still in development. Delay means not worthy of deploying. Its not about failure in mid operation of LCA in war.

Sir, you are now dodging the real question, sinking of PN Ghazi and the reason ? Did it sink because LCA was a failure or Indian naval officer retreated ?

You are bringing wrong examples to avoid my simple question, Where is the official PN report of sinking of Ghazi. Are you sure it was an accident due to faulty mine or incompetency of sailors ?

Stick to topic. PN Ghazi, explain why did it sank ? Incompetency or gross mistake by the sailors of PN Ghazi.

But I know, you will again dodge it, so I don't expect any valid point from your side. Keep on bringing LCA, Arjun, Timbaktu whatever to avoid this simple question.I know you are incapable of answering it and trying to take the discussion over different issue. So better not reply rather than proving your Incompetence too.
Introspection should be done regarding why IN lied and claimed gallantry medals.In officers must be punished for these lies just like ketchup clonel.They made fool of 55 crore indians in 1971.

That true when Justice Katju says that 90% of indians are idiots ...reason being they lap up lies like those of IN and ketchup colonel.
 
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well from the outcome of the war, naval incompetence seems to on "your" nations side... (thats if you still continue the same flags) ... and when you are at starting threads on brilliance of ghasi and sinking of kukri... you might also be interested in starting threads on PNS Muhafiz, PNS Khaibar, PNS Shah Jahan, PNS Dacca ....

I leave you with a quote:

"At then end of conflict.... We [Eastern Naval Command] had no intelligence and hence, were both deaf and blind with the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force pounding us day and night....
—Admiral Mohammad Sharif "



Shabash, what a slap :lol:

If I could, I would thank you twice.
 
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well from the outcome of the war, naval incompetence seems to on "your" nations side... (thats if you still continue the same flags) ... and when you are at starting threads on brilliance of ghasi and sinking of kukri... you might also be interested in starting threads on PNS Muhafiz, PNS Khaibar, PNS Shah Jahan, PNS Dacca ....

I leave you with a quote:

"At then end of conflict.... We [Eastern Naval Command] had no intelligence and hence, were both deaf and blind with the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force pounding us day and night....
—Admiral Mohammad Sharif "
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Lying and incompetence and claming the gallantry medals for fake valour and encounter is the tradition of indian armed forces just like IN in case sinking of PNS Ghazi and Ketchup colonel in case of kashmir fake encounters...................................................


it was only 24 years after the 1971 war that Vice Admiral Mihir K. Roy had exploded the myth that the Indian Navy sunk the Pakistani submarine PNS Ghazi.


A retired Navy officer who saw action in 1971 said the destruction of the Ghazi papers and those of Army in Kolkata are all fitting into a larger trend, many of them suspected about Indian war history, of deliberate falsification in many instances. It is high time the real history of those past actions were revealed. "We have enough heroes," he said. "In the fog of war, many myths and false heroes may have been created and many honest ones left unsung," he admitted.
Lt General JFR Jacob, (retd), hero of the 1971 India Pakistan war, explains why the Indian Navy destroyed documents related to the sinking of the Pakistani submarine, PNS Ghazi.
"On December 9, the Navy announced that they had sunk the Ghazi on December 4, after the start of the war. Later, officers were decorated for their role and the offensive action of their ships in the sinking of the Ghazi.

After the war, however, teams of divers confirmed that it was an internal explosion that sank the Ghazi. The log of the Ghazi was recovered and the last entry as far as I can recall was on November 29, 1971. Sadly, that too has been destroyed.

The Navy had earlier decided to change the date of Navy Day to December 4, the day they had proclaimed that they had sunk the Ghazi.

As the old saying goes, truth is the first casualty in war. "

-Lt.Gen.JFR JAcob.
 
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Shabash, what a slap :lol:

If I could, I would thank you twice.

Indian army's own general and Indian navy's vice admiral gave yo the karara slap on lies on navy....And whatever tooti-phooti reputations of indians were left was lost by the statement of Justice katju when he said that 90% indians are idiots.....................:rofl:
 
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Its is time for us to make our directions right and try to find out our real enemy by putting our EGOS aside first.
I had heard a statement of a Foreign General who had served in WWII that; ''If i get the Jawans of Pak Army and Officers of Indian Army then NO ONE JUST NO ONE CAN STOP ME''.

Now i can see why he said that!!!.
So what lesson you draw from the above statement of world war-2 General????
 
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Indian army's own general and Indian navy's vice admiral gave yo the karara slap on lies on navy....And whatever tooti-phooti reputations of indians were left was lost by the statement of Justice katju when he said that 90% indians are idiots.....................:rofl:


And then pakistan lost half it's territory as well as numerous of other vessels along with it's dignity (surrender of 93,000+ cowards) followed by being colonized yet again :wave:
 
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Nothing can be worst surrender than that of 2001 where vajpayee made IA enjoy picnic at border for 1 yr at the cos of nearly 700 soldiers lives without even putting up the fight.

2nd worst surrender was the 26/11 still in south block of delhi army of typist keep on peridically typing surrender papers aka dossiers every 2nd month to be sent to isb...... :cheesy:
 
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