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The French Fighter Jet That Nobody Wants -

Did you read your history? or did they made it "indigenous" too?:cheesy:

We read history like the people all over the world. Check your history which has been written by yourself by your own thought!!!

You have made a wrong choice by talking about indigenous. :lol: And the word 'indigenous' is really funny for yourself. If try every single product will return with origin in other countries with ToT made in Pakistan. Tank, fighter, nuke, missiles everything. You have got advantage of taking military aid from China and US. Just few days ago there was a news that China giving you 50 more JF-17. lol Still you talk about indigenous. First develop something by yourselves, before talking about others indigenous.
 
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Seems French Rafale after a decade plus is still a failure, no body wants, too expensive
 
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Brazil deals new blow to French Rafale sales drive

By RFI
France's plans to sell its Rafale fighter jet were dealt another blow when Brazill decided to buy a Swedish-built plane just after President François Hollande visited the country.

Brazil announced on on Wednesday it had chosen the Gripen NG built by Sweden's Saab in a multi-billion-dollar contract for 36 new fighter jets, rather than French firm Dassault's Rafale and US-based Boeing's F/A-18.

The French government yesterday played down its failure to convince Brazil to buy Rafale fighter jets, insisting it still hoping to sell them to India and the Gulf nations.

The move was another blow to the Rafale programme, which has failed to win a single foreign sale after nearly three decades of development that has cost tens of billions of euros.

And negotiations on the Indian sale have dragged out since January 2012, when Delhi chose Dassault for exclusive negotiation, with a decision unlikely before next year's election there.

Rafale is a state-of-the-art fighter but countries make the choice depending on their strategic requirements, French strategy expert Corentin Brustlein told RFI.

Negotiations with Brazil date back to 2009, when then presidents Nicolas Sarkozy and Lula da Silva made an agreement in principle on the sale and technology transfer.

But since then Dilma Roussef has replaced da Silva after 2010's election and, although she is a member of his Workers' Party, defence policy has changed slightly with changes at the top of the Brazilain air force.

Massive protests against the cost of the World Cup have led the government to take a closer look at expenses and the five-billion-euro bill for the Rafale proved too much for a country with no special enemies and a history of military dictatorships.

In choosing the Gripen NG, the government chose the smallest, cheapest plane on offer, which is also the easiest to build.

The decision is bad news for Dassault and the 500 companies who would have worked with it but it's also bad news for the French government's attempt to balance its budget, since the sale would have enables it to cancel orders for the French air force.

Brazil deals new blow to French Rafale sales drive - France - Brazil - RFI
 
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Seems French Rafale after a decade plus is still a failure, no body wants, too expensive
I would not really say product is a failure. But it is expensive in an approaching 5th gen world
 
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Even the French air force has cut back on Rafale. It has not been able to replace Mirage like it was intended to do. :yu:
 
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Wait a minute...didn't the Rafale won the India MRCA competition?
 
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But IAF does not have the money to buy. 20 billion USD would require IAF at least a decade to save up.

Then why did India chose this fighter over the others? Their tender was for 126 fighters. And now after a lengthy evaluation process, India chose an fighter aircraft it can't afford to buy?
 
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Then why did India chose this fighter over the others? Their tender was for 126 fighters. And now after a lengthy evaluation process, India chose an fighter aircraft it can't afford to buy?

Its only in his delusions...Check his posts...
 
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Next government (BJP lead NDA) is most likely to scrap this raFAIL Deal. Bjp leader Dr. Swamy is against this deal. Besides India should go for 5th Gen fighters now!
 
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Why would India buy the Rafale combat aircraft rejected by every other interested country—Brazil, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, South Korea, Singapore, and even the cash-rich but not particularly discriminating Saudi Arabia and Morocco?

The French foreign minister Laurent Fabius’s one-point agenda when he visited New Delhi was to seal the deal for Rafale, a warplane apparently fitting IAF’s idea of a Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) in the service’s unique typology, which includes “light” and “heavy” fighter planes as well, used by no other air force in the world. Alas, the first whiff of corruption led the previous defence minister, A K Antony, to seize up and shut shop, stranding the deal at the price negotiation committee stage. It is this stoppage Fabius sought to unclog.

France’s desperation is understandable. Absent the India deal, the Rafale production line will close down, the future of its aerospace sector will dim, and the entire edifice of French industrial R&D sector based on small and medium-sized firms—a version of the enormously successful German “Mittelstand” model—engaged in producing cutting-edge technologies could unravel, and grease France’s slide to second-rate technology power-status.

More immediately, it will lead to a marked increase in the unit cost of the aircraft—reportedly of as much as $5-$10 million dollars to the French Air Force, compelling it to limit the number it inducts. With no international customers and France itself unable to afford the pricey Rafale, the French military aviation industry will be at a crossroads. So, for Paris a lot is at stake and in India the French have found an easy mark, a country willing to pay excessively for an aircraft the IAF can well do without.

Consider the monies at stake. Let’s take the example of Brazil, our BRICS partner. For 36 Rafales the acquisition cost, according to Brazilian media, was $8.2 billion plus an additional $4 billion for short-period maintenance contracts, amounting to nearly $340 million per aircraft in this package and roughly $209 million as the price tag for a single Rafale without maintenance support. Brazil insisted on transfer of technology (ToT) and was told it had to pay a whole lot extra for it, as also for the weapons for its Rafales. But the Brazilian air force had doubts about the quality of the AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar enabling the aircraft to switch quickly from air-to-air to air-to-ground mode in flight, and about the helmet-mounted heads-up-display. Too high a price and too many problems convinced the government of president Dilma Rousseff that the Rafale was not worth the trouble or the money and junked the deal, opting for the Swedish Gripen NG instead.

During the Congress party’s rule the Indian government did not blink at the prospective bill for the Rafale, which more than doubled from $10 billion in 2009 to some $22 billion today, and which figure realistically will exceed $30 billion, or $238 million per aircraft, at a minimum. But India, unbeknownst to most of us, is apparently a terribly rich country, with money to burn! Meanwhile, the United Kingdom, an apparently poorer state or at least one more careful with its money, is blanching at the $190 million price tag for each of the 60 Lockheed F-35Bs (vertical take-off, technologically more complex, variant of the air force model)—a full generation ahead of the Rafale—ordered for the first of the Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth-class 65,000-tonne aircraft carriers.

The prohibitive cost of the French aircraft supposedly made finance-cum-defence minister Arun Jaitley apprehensive. He did the right thing, as is rumoured, of revising the order downwards from 126 aircraft to 80 or so Rafales. The IAF headquarters pre-emptively acquiesced in the decision to save the deal. However, if this change was affected in the hope of proportionately reducing the cost, it will be belied. Because in contracts involving high-value combat aircraft, the size of the order does not much affect the unit price, the cost of spares and service support, and of ToT! This is evident from the rough estimates of the per aircraft cost to Brazil of $209 million for 36 Rafales compared with the $238 million for 126 of the same aircraft to India!

Because New Delhi has been inclined to make India a military “great power” on the basis of imported armaments—a policy that’s a boon to supplier states as it generates employment and new technologies in these countries, and sustains their defence industries, a confident French official told me with respect to another deal that “India will pay the price”. Considering the various negatives of the proposed deal and the long-term national interest Jaitley would do well to nix the Rafale transaction altogether.

The bureaucratic interest of the IAF prompts it to exaggerate wrong threats and talk of declining fighter assets. But it will not tell the defence minister about the logistics hell routinely faced by frontline squadrons in operations owing to the mindboggling diversity of combat aircraft in its inventory, a problem only the Rafale acquisition will exacerbate and, hence, about the urgent need to rationalise the force structure, ideally to Su-30s, the indigenous Tejas Mk-1 for short-range air defence, Tejas Mk-II as MMRCA, and the Su-50 PAK FA as fifth-generation fighter. Nor will the department of defence production officials disclose to Jaitley that the ToT provisions in arms contracts are a fraudulent farce because, while the foreign suppliers pocket billions of dollars, no core technologies, such as source codes (millions of lines of software) and flight control laws, are ever transferred. And that the local defence industry monopolised by defence public sector units (DPSUs) is incapable of absorbing and innovating even such technology as is, in fact, relayed to it because it only assembles aircraft from imported kits.

Terminating the Rafale deal will be disruptive but sending the message to the military, the DPSUs, the defence ministry bureaucracy, and foreign companies salivating for rich, one-sided, contracts that the Narendra Modi government is determined to make a new start and conduct defence business differently, is more important.

The author is professor at the Centre for Policy Research and blogs at Security Wise | Bharat Karnad – India's Foremost Conservative Strategist
 
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^^ LOLLZ

bharat karnad article worshippers are even in pakistan also :lol:

CHEERS
 
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Well i do admire the French for always trying as much to be independent from the mighty U.S. They sure have tried to be as self reliant on every field as possible. Building a fighter jet of this category isn't an easy task. So we have to give credit to the French for this. Only a few select countries like U.S, Russia, France, Sweden(though its gripen was several foreign help/sytems)and increasingly China can still afford/have expertise to build a 4+ generation fighter jet alone and put it into service. Even my country(who does have alot of experience/know how in fighter jets manufacturing) had to do it(Eurofighter typhoon) with other european nations like Germany, Italy, and Spain. Even so it still had some budget/technical issues though its fine now.

So as much as i admire the French for going it alone(which only few countries in the world can afford to do), i think they should have join the Eurofighter project than doing everything alone. It might cost them alot in future, since finding a foreign buyer will become increasingly difficult with each passing year. As most countries will rather have U.S planes if they had a choice, and secondly Russia/Eurofighter typhoon/Gripen jets. Rafale will find it increasingly diffcult to justify the huge amount it spent on this project. Just my 2 cent.
 
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This issue has been blown way out of proportion. There is no other option. India doesn't wish to be dependent on US for critical fighter jets- that takes care of Gripen too. Mig-35 is still a undeveloped plane and in any case not good enough for the next two decades . Eurofighter has a risky consortium setting. More cooks are likely to spoil the broth i.e. impose sanctions. Rafale is the only sensible choice. If no other country decides to buy, that is a situation we must learn to exploit. Even if there are cost overruns, we may be able to extract concessions for other projects. Second choice would be Gripen.
 
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