The Express Tribune – Hypocrisy At Its Peak!

[Kambojaric]

Yup and we dont see people going Hawwww or even bringing it up as often as they bring up about Pakistan

As Pakistanis though our focus should be on Pakistan.Let Swedes or Danes worry about the Ghettoization of Muslim and Immigrant communities in their country's and the resulting socio-economic barriers that are subsequently developing there. As a Pakistani I want to see Pakistan prosper. We can only do that by scrutinizing ourselves.

I totally agree with this part....Esp when it comes from people who dont even know anything about the religion and all their knowledge is from that 1 druggy peer baba or mullah in their masjid rather than referring to the Quran they go to people...

That is the problem with our society which we picked up from Hinduism....Pooja everyone who is even a drop better than you when clearly Prophet said only those whose aamal are better than you are closer to Allah nothing to do with knowledge but action...

It it is part of our culture on which Hinduism has had an impact no doubt. A bigger reason though I believe is illiteracy. Illiteracy literally makes you reliant on others to read and explain things to you. Further free thinking is never encouraged in our society even amongst the more literate. From early school days children are taught to memorize facts and obey. I remember when as a child I moved from Pakistan to Sweden for a while my grades suffered tremendously especially in subjects like history and social studies. The reason was that the teachers werent content there with me learning for example when Nazi forces retreated from Russia in WW2. They wanted me to answer why operaiton barbarossa failed and what in my opinion could have altered the outcome of the operation. This was a huge change for me but in the long run this kind of education creates individual who dare to think freely rather than being restricted to memorizing facts and numbers. It could be that this was just my individual experiance in the school that I went to in Pakistan but the impression I have from my cousins and friends in other schools was the same. We all did "ratta", but never thought why.

Actually I wouldnt paint all 280 million of us with 1 brush....Most of us are tolerant hence we can actually take the ideas of a dirty old peer or Mullah who has no manners on how to deal with women ....I would call that open minded to shit but it is a sad form of open minded and tolerance! I mean the head of the family...usually a man would go to such idiots and actually be "inspired" to do stuff he would never otherwise is showing tolerance and acceptance of something outside their realm...the sad part is that these Mullahs actually make you think you will enter heaven faster by doing shit! Well, Quran warns us about these people who sell their religion for the price of hell...

Im willing to accept that maybe my post was too much of a generalization and certainly Pakistan is a very diverse country but everything that I wrote was based on what I have observed throughout my life in both more and less well off areas of Lahore (I have relatives in both) and some other parts of Pakistan, as well the behavior of the Pakistani diaspora in Europe. The examples that you are narrating still bring us back to literacy I believe. If we could read, write and think freely ourselves why would we need a Mullah to explain life to us.

Well, my closest are Malaysians

but again we are cherry picking do the ones we know and talk to...do they represent whole of their country?

Rest I can agree with

In this case though it isnt cherry picking. The concept of "Pakistanization" has actually expanded throughout the Muslim world. Below are articles by Muslims from the various backgrounds. We have to question ourselves why is our country's name being used as a synonym for narrow mindedness and religious intolerance. How would the Quaid feel about all of this?

Pakistanization of Indonesia? | The Jakarta Post

Pakistanization - CONTRIBUTOR

Asia needs ASEAN-ization, not Pakistanization - Geopoliticalmonitor.com

 

[Dubious]

As Pakistanis though our focus should be on Pakistan.Let Swedes or Danes worry about the Ghettoization of Muslim and Immigrant communities in their country's and the resulting socio-economic barriers that are subsequently developing there. As a Pakistani I want to see Pakistan prosper. We can only do that by scrutinizing ourselves.

Fair enough

It it is part of our culture on which Hinduism has had an impact no doubt. A bigger reason though I believe is illiteracy. Illiteracy literally makes you reliant on others to read and explain things to you. Further free thinking is never encouraged in our society even amongst the more literate. From early school days children are taught to memorize facts and obey. I remember when as a child I moved from Pakistan to Sweden for a while my grades suffered tremendously especially in subjects like history and social studies. The reason was that the teachers werent content there with me learning for example when Nazi forces retreated from Russia in WW2. They wanted me to answer why operaiton barbarossa failed and what in my opinion could have altered the outcome of the operation. This was a huge change for me but in the long run this kind of education creates individual who dare to think freely rather than being restricted to memorizing facts and numbers. It could be that this was just my individual experiance in the school that I went to in Pakistan but the impression I have from my cousins and friends in other schools was the same. We all did "ratta", but never thought why.

Ratta is the sick Eastern way of education....it used to be the British way but they managed to snap out of it or maybe never had it in their kingdom and reserved it for their colonies

It is sad Pakistan has not understood this crap or refuses to churn out thinking individuals ....

Im willing to accept that maybe my post was too much of a generalization and certainly Pakistan is a very diverse country but everything that I wrote was based on what I have observed throughout my life in both more and less well off areas of Lahore (I have relatives in both) and some other parts of Pakistan, as well the behavior of the Pakistani diaspora in Europe. The examples that you are narrating still bring us back to literacy I believe. If we could read, write and think freely ourselves why would we need a Mullah to explain life to us.

Yes indeed I solely believe that it is the very reason no politician wants to invest in education coz if the society becomes free without being bound then they will be out of business in cheating and misguiding!

I am gonna go through those posts then reply that bit...

@Bamxa

ok 1stly, the Indonesian writer is either biased or cleaning his hands off shit:

Pakistanization of Indonesia? | The Jakarta Post

Indonesia was 1 of the many Muslim countries which also did the same to Ahmedi ...

2ndly, it is true many countries did put Ahmedi in a separate category to minimize anyone attacking them because they were not considered Muslims so no one could put a fatwah on them or claim them being Muslims and doing something out of Islam (since they were not considered Muslims).....it was INITIALLY designed to protect them but it seemed to backfire....

But this Indonesian seems to think it was Pakistani idea when Indonesia was one of the handful of Muslim countries Pakistan sat down in a round table meeting with where this was decided ....

That is just disgusting lies from Indonesia which has more small groups doing their own thing and calling themselves Muslims....they are called divergent Muslims and Malaysian govt fights them off by not allowing any of them to come over for tabligh ..

The Egyptian is just going after our Mrtial laws ....Well, maybe we can be considered a synonym based on how many years we were under general...was it good or bad? Well in my opinion anything good for Pakistan was portrayed as a bad in the world's eye so that to cut us off because they were not a govt .....and theoretically couldnt deal with them (ESP coz America couldnt strike deals with them were the first people to voice out martial law is bad when in S. America it was a norm...another phobia causing event for USA might be the Vietnam war)...In my opinion they at least know about the country more than what we call a govt. ...A govt based on fake degree is def not any better than martial law!

All articles seem to be taking words out of America rather than their own experiences or opinions or happenings...

 

[Salik]

@Akheilos @Bamxa we need a complete study of how much effects Islam has taken from other religions, till then please don't target any specific religion. Stick to Islam feel free to do it's CT Scan, we'll find sufficient indignous faults among the Muslims so that we correct them first.

 

[WAJsal]

I shouldn't be reading this stuff .
Where are funded by Raw,Israeli/Amricka conspiracy comments?

 

[Dubious]

I shouldn't be reading this stuff .
Where are funded by Raw,Israeli/Amricka conspiracy comments?

That plays a role but isnt the central role of shit coming out of Pakistan!

 

[WAJsal]

That plays a role but isnt the central role of shit coming out of Pakistan!

Lolz what was Express Tribune thinking posting something like this ? and that title.
IF you are gay and Muslim ,"change your sexual orientation!"
That's just stupid.Akhelios bhai yeh kya hai ? indirectly accusing religion of something,right?

 

[Dubious]

indirectly accusing religion of something,right?

Nahh just being stupid....

If you are gay and American, you prob have a higher chance of being beaten in some of the Southern states than in Muslim countries! If you are gay and Christian some hard core Christians would shun you like you are a leper

But no only our media has a problem with our country and religion....

Plus if one is gay it is not written on their face nor in their medical reports except special tests which will show your "genetic reasons for some things" but if that genetic reason is not found then it is a choice...Like smoking...

And I am not sure if you have chosen it you know it why do you need to announce it and get smacked around? Go be gay ....do whatever you want, why announce...THAT is no longer gay but more on ADHD!

 

[Jazzbot]

I've seen some cheap journalism from ET in past. They are more like a tabloid.

 

[SQ8]

The 3rd category are those sad cases who have been rejected so often and weak willed people they blame their gender or switch gender for a change or something different....Now these type of people have nothing to do with DNA but are either weak willed or just stupid...

The tests confirmed that Nagina was undergoing sex change and needed surgery that was conducted at a local private hospital, turning her into a young man who was named Usman Akram.

From my understanding this falls under 2nd category .....



You do know you can check the sex of the baby at 7 weeks?

Did you read the article you posted?

Oh sorry there was more...read my posts it covers alot ...
The wife who is now looking to be a husband, did she get a checkup at birth? Was she born by a midwife she would have skipped the normal things the hospital does...But at least 1 thing is sure she is sterile as a she....she didnt transform at a "later age" she always was a man but these things can be missed as only way to know chromosomal disorders is through karyotypes...

I posted it

Your turn to give me some research where a woman who was checked at birth (karyotyped and all) and then SUDDENLY 1 day woke up with a different organ!


No I sound like a scientist who just found out people believe in the boogeyman under the bed


Now where did I say that?

I was just wondering when you would start crying in the same cries about the other societies...

I in fact explained what it is

Interesting in all those cases, the idea that it is still a defect at birth and NOT a choice seems to elude you. Take the article I posted, if there are numerical changes that determine conditions such as say kidney disorders; then chances are that regardless of how well a person eats and keeps their diet; there is a higher probability of something going wrong with the kidney.

You amusingly mentioned that all eunuchs are either a product of society and circumstances yet conveniently ignore the fact that the woman who was born a man wasn't discovered as one till late; as if somehow these cases cannot effect the eunuch community in the opposite way.

There is an aspect of choice, a large aspect that drives the homosexual issue due to how their society affected their upbringing, but there are genuine cases of medical mystery that influence a person's "instinct" so to say to develop in a particular direction, which you ignored.

 

[Dubious]

Interesting in all those cases, the idea that it is still a defect at birth and NOT a choice seems to elude you.

Not exactly, those who are "defected" dont make it their mission to fight nature...they are either already guys by birth being brought up as girls coz their parents didnt scan them or girls being brought up as guys...No one changes suddenly by force known as operation

Take the article I posted, if there are numerical changes that determine conditions such as say kidney disorders; then chances are that regardless of how well a person eats and keeps their diet; there is a higher probability of something going wrong with the kidney.

Yes, probability not CERTAINTY...

But that is a kidney an organ not your chromosome (your DNA)...

Basic biology will point out the error in your understanding

You amusingly mentioned that all eunuchs are either a product of society and circumstances yet conveniently ignore the fact that the woman who was born a man wasn't discovered as one till late; as if somehow these cases cannot effect the eunuch community in the opposite way.

I clearly distinguish one who is from bio (nature) and one who is trying to be one via sociology and behaviour....

There is an aspect of choice, a large aspect that drives the homosexual issue due to how their society affected their upbringing, but there are genuine cases of medical mystery that influence a person's "instinct" so to say to develop in a particular direction, which you ignored.

I never argued the GENUINE case...which are 1 in a ten thousand (out of which few survive due to other complications)...


As for the medical "mystery" it can be equated as those who believe in unicorns but that biological mystery was the horn of a sea creature known as a narwhal:

Sexual orientation of choice is like trying to be god....When god made you a guy and you are just ungrateful and change it and vice versa....that is challenging nature than accepting it...

Like I say ...those who are naturally like that they dont beg for attention...

 

[SQ8]

Sexual orientation of choice is like trying to be god....When god made you a guy and you are just ungrateful and change it and vice versa....that is challenging nature than accepting it...

Like I say ...those who are naturally like that they dont beg for attention...

That right there sums of the entirety of your understanding of th topic.Which is entirely reactionary is nature despite all the scientific arguments involved; unless such a person keeps quiet and conforms to the norms of society(despite their defect) they are dramatizing it. Ipso facto if you see a person born with Uner Tan syndrome should just learn to walk straight and not dramatize their condition.

 

[Kabira]

I am pretty sure being hard core khusra is not choice in country like Pakistan. As I said before gays get free pass because this is prevalent in 90% of Pakistani population. But transgenders face problems and are not accepted as human beings in our society.

I think reason is some birth defects surly.

 

[Icewolf]

Sadly some people are still looking for the gene that some homo dude "claimed" shifts SEXUAL orientation as a baby in the womb or the high chances of turning gay due to high hormonal exposure....Wake me up when they find the unicorn!

If there is a gene for stupid, you got it

 

[syedali73]

That right there sums of the entirety of your understanding of th topic.Which is entirely reactionary is nature despite all the scientific arguments involved; unless such a person keeps quiet and conforms to the norms of society(despite their defect) they are dramatizing it. Ipso facto if you see a person born with Uner Tan syndrome should just learn to walk straight and not dramatize their condition.

Oscar, the only issue I see with your arguments is, you are viewing the issue at hand from the perspective of the West, which is fine, but not as much applicable here. I am a molecular Biologist and spent all my life studying genes and what they do. Things are not as simple as your are presenting them here. Without any congenital defect/abnormality, lack or imbalance of certain hormones etc. a male can pretty much behave as a female and vice versa depending on their respective upbringing and environment hence we never relate a specific phenotype with one gene.

My next door neighbor for instance, have one girl. The parents (Dad is a pilot and Mom is a housewife) dearly wanted a boy but the lady could not conceive after the first pregnancy. The couple decided (or maybe unintentionally) to raise the girl as a a boy. They have raised this girl as a boy so perfectly that even I could not see the difference and once when I pointed out to my wife that this particular friend of my son has female facial features that I learnt the 'boy' was actually a girl. Its not only her attire but even the games and habitats are all those of boys, playing COD, Battlefield, Fifa 15 on the XBox, skateboarding etc. Now she is in trouble big time for she is entering in puberty and can no longer swim with boys with her shirts off etc. and she simply doesn't know why she is physically different than her pals. Who to blame? the girl who was born a perfect female but raised as a boy by the parents who so dearly wanted a boy?

There are fewer genes which directly affect the phenotype (such as G6PD deficiency, cystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia, Tay-Sachs disease etc.) for most phenotypes are affected by the function of the multiple genes. For instance, there is not one gene that is related with the height of a person, or their complexion, or their hair color, or their intelligence, or diseases such as diabetes, cancers, cardiovascular etc. Most congenital phenotype are a result of the deletion or addition of sets of genes and that only happens when large chunks of chromosomes are either deleted or added (such as the Down's syndrome or trisomy 21). The science has yet to find a gene or sets of genes that are directly related with the gender of a person or at-least gender preferences when it comes to certain intimacy calls.

We have learnt through clinical cases that the complete removal of gonads (sex -determining organs, ovaries in females and testicles/prostate in males), does not result in shifting one's sexual preference rather diminishing the sex derive if at all. If we approach this issue through pure scientific point of view, it does not hold much water. However, through social and cultural point of view, it depends what culture we are talking about.

And West... well you might have experienced it like I did, what to say... My son, like most of Asian kids was 'hyper active' in the class. Once (when we were in States) we were summoned by the class teacher and advised to seek medical intervention for our son for she suspected him an ADHD +ve child. With those standards and norms, 99% Asian kids are ADHD positive. The same boy is among the top students of his class, a national debate and story telling champion, represents his School at national level in Swimming and 100, 200 meter races.

 

[macnurv]

So whats the issue here? Are there not homosexuals in Pakistan like every other country in the world, or we would rather prefer to act that there isn't any because its against Islam. I don't have any issues with LGBT's, yes they are born that way and no matter what you like to believe makes any difference. So get off your high horse, and stop listening to Alex Jones that some how homosexuals are to be blamed for all the evil in this world. Humanity is pretty evil to begin with, I am not scared of LGBT's but those religious zealots, who believe everyone should live their lives according to their believes.
By the way Express Tribune Blogs are really pathetic, never bothered to read them.