The Express Tribune – Hypocrisy At Its Peak!

[SQ8]

There are fewer genes which directly affect the phenotype (such as G6PD deficiency, cystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia, Tay-Sachs disease etc.) for most phenotypes are affected by the function of the multiple genes. For instance, there is not one gene that is related with the height of a person, or their complexion, or their hair color, or their intelligence, or diseases such as diabetes, cancers, cardiovascular etc. Most congenital phenotype are a result of the deletion or addition of sets of genes and that only happens when large chunks of chromosomes are either deleted or added (such as the Down's syndrome or trisomy 21). The science has yet to find a gene or sets of genes that are directly related with the gender of a person or at-least gender preferences when it comes to certain intimacy calls.

I am not at all disputing the effect of social circumstance and upbringing on what a person feels or not feels, but rather the possibility that particular genuine cases do exist. Take bisexuals for instance, there is no other plausible reason other than sexual over-activity for their behaviour; they just aren't satisfied and resort to unnatural behaviour.. or rather pleasure seeking choices. There is little rights involved there and as such their preferences are as beyond the norm as incest or other deviations. The people that are in actual trouble in our context are the transexuals or euncuhs. Whilst arguing that brain development too itself may have an effect regardless of how the rest of the body develops.
Transsexual differences caught on brain scan - life - 26 January 2011 - New Scientist

The issue here is not legitimizing sodomy for those seeking it as a life choice, but rather those who were hardwired from the start for it. To take a crude e.g. Take the son of a WANA operation veteran and land him in the midst of eunuchs, see if he does not develop into one. The same way, take a small boy taken in by Eunuchs and put him straight out into cadet college and further on, see how he does not develop into a hard core fellow.

However, take the same boys and try reintroducing them into the societies they came in from and the process to convert them back would be impossible regardless of whatever hormonal therapies ensue. Those that have had a lifestyle that has changed them into what they are cannot be entirely blamed for their choices. At least not those who have had an entire adult development cycle that changed them.
As for those whose brains were hardwired to develop that way, we cant blame them at all or shun them out of society.

There is a spread of deviancy, just as there is mistaking disabilities for deviant behaviour. Society itself is at fault for allowing such prejudices to ferment. The article posted reeks of hypocrisy when it talks of ET talking about the so called LGBT community(who in many cases are basically the results of social upbringing and very few genuine cases) when they ignore Eunuchs, and the much less spoken but widely known habits of "bacha/londa bazi" prevalent in our society. So while the attention seeking desires of LGBTs aside, our society itself is, to use the most appropiate word; beghairat in that it will create a fuss over two girls rebelling against perverse social pressures and making out whilst quietly shoving up the various acts of sodomy that occur across our rural and urban societies within places such as Truck stops to more sanctimonious Madressahs and Public schools.
Quite frankly, whilst finding both disgusting.. I would not be threatened by two girls(or guys) from generally affluent families choosing their sexual preferences as compared to the horror of someone being sodomized by force.

 

[syedali73]

I am not at all disputing the effect of social circumstance and upbringing on what a person feels or not feels, but rather the possibility that particular genuine cases do exist. Take bisexuals for instance, there is no other plausible reason other than sexual over-activity for their behaviour; they just aren't satisfied and resort to unnatural behaviour.. or rather pleasure seeking choices. There is little rights involved there and as such their preferences are as beyond the norm as incest or other deviations. The people that are in actual trouble in our context are the transexuals or euncuhs. Whilst arguing that brain development too itself may have an effect regardless of how the rest of the body develops.
Transsexual differences caught on brain scan - life - 26 January 2011 - New Scientist

The issue here is not legitimizing sodomy for those seeking it as a life choice, but rather those who were hardwired from the start for it. To take a crude e.g. Take the son of a WANA operation veteran and land him in the midst of eunuchs, see if he does not develop into one. The same way, take a small boy taken in by Eunuchs and put him straight out into cadet college and further on, see how he does not develop into a hard core fellow.

However, take the same boys and try reintroducing them into the societies they came in from and the process to convert them back would be impossible regardless of whatever hormonal therapies ensue. Those that have had a lifestyle that has changed them into what they are cannot be entirely blamed for their choices. At least not those who have had an entire adult development cycle that changed them.
As for those whose brains were hardwired to develop that way, we cant blame them at all or shun them out of society.

There is a spread of deviancy, just as there is mistaking disabilities for deviant behaviour. Society itself is at fault for allowing such prejudices to ferment. The article posted reeks of hypocrisy when it talks of ET talking about the so called LGBT community(who in many cases are basically the results of social upbringing and very few genuine cases) when they ignore Eunuchs, and the much less spoken but widely known habits of "bacha/londa bazi" prevalent in our society. So while the attention seeking desires of LGBTs aside, our society itself is, to use the most appropiate word; beghairat in that it will create a fuss over two girls rebelling against perverse social pressures and making out whilst quietly shoving up the various acts of sodomy that occur across our rural and urban societies within places such as Truck stops to more sanctimonious Madressahs and Public schools.
Quite frankly, whilst finding both disgusting.. I would not be threatened by two girls(or guys) from generally affluent families choosing their sexual preferences as compared to the horror of someone being sodomized by force.

I basically find nothing to disagree with in your post. This is interesting topic and I sure want to continue further. Let me get back to you when I find little more time to discuss it in detail. I had a friend in States who was heterosexual, married, later divorced his wife and opted to become a gay. I met his partner who was as fine a gentleman as was my friend and my family had dinner at their place too. My friend belong to a very fine family, the Dad retired as Brigadier from the USAF, Mom was a famous Model, and his two elder bothers served in the Police. Upon picking up his mind through long debates (mostly in the context of why Ibrahamic religions don't allow gay/lesbian marriages), I learnt that him becoming a gay was a simple matter of choice and had nothing to do with hardwiring of his brain that might have pushed him towards that path. He was not sexually overactive too but just 'like it that way'.

We'll continue Oscar.

 

[Dubious]

That right there sums of the entirety of your understanding of th topic.Which is entirely reactionary is nature despite all the scientific arguments involved; unless such a person keeps quiet and conforms to the norms of society(despite their defect) they are dramatizing it.

What if they dont have a defect and actually are a drama? Ever thought of that?

I never brought up the biological problems ...From the beginning I am talking about the drama group who CHOSE to be so not who were born as such....Now you want to call that some form of twisted Biology that is not exactly right...Because there REALLY IS NO GENE FOR HOMOSEXUALITY nor ANY GENE for a sudden CHANGE IN INTEREST!

No matter how you see it your drama queens and kings dont have any science to back them up!

Ipso facto if you see a person born with Uner Tan syndrome should just learn to walk straight and not dramatize their condition.

AND AGAIN you failed to distinguish biology from behaviour! If he has a syndrome (A syndrome is a set of medical signs and symptoms that are correlated with each other and, often, with a specific disease.) THEN no science can argue what you just twisted my words to sound like!

Kindly dont be a Mullah and dismiss science with such stupidity! Unless of course you are saying HOMOSEXUALITY is a syndrome or a disease!

If there is a gene for stupid, you got it

Personal attack isnt going to take you far...Show me a gene which gets "turned on" and 1 day you feel like changing your sexual orientation!

And what I claimed was in a scientific journal a homosexual scientist was trying to prove that there is a gene associated with people wanting to change their sexual orientation...Now if you dont read such scientific journals, then I believe your comment lands back on you!

So whats the issue here? Are there not homosexuals in Pakistan like every other country in the world, or we would rather prefer to act that there isn't any because its against Islam

They most likely are....I would never reject the notion..

But the number of idiots who pretend to be for fame or whatever reason makes it seem like a joke...

I don't have any issues with LGBT's, yes they are born that way and no matter what you like to believe makes any difference. So get off your high horse, and stop listening to Alex Jones that some how homosexuals are to be blamed for all the evil in this world. Humanity is pretty evil to begin with, I am not scared of LGBT's but those religious zealots, who believe everyone should live their lives according to their believes.
By the way Express Tribune Blogs are really pathetic, never bothered to read them.

Read 2nd para of post 29...

@Oscar either you were trolling me or you ignored my very first post

Sadly some people are still looking for the gene that some homo dude "claimed" shifts SEXUAL orientation as a baby in the womb or the high chances of turning gay due to high hormonal exposure....Wake me up when they find the unicorn!

This post alone rules out all syndromes ....

I am specifically talking about 1 type of people who are trying to justify their choice by piggy backing on biology!

I am not at all disputing the effect of social circumstance and upbringing on what a person feels or not feels, but rather the possibility that particular genuine cases do exist. Take bisexuals for instance, there is no other plausible reason other than sexual over-activity for their behaviour; they just aren't satisfied and resort to unnatural behaviour.. or rather pleasure seeking choices. There is little rights involved there and as such their preferences are as beyond the norm as incest or other deviations. The people that are in actual trouble in our context are the transexuals or euncuhs. Whilst arguing that brain development too itself may have an effect regardless of how the rest of the body develops.
Transsexual differences caught on brain scan - life - 26 January 2011 - New Scientist

The issue here is not legitimizing sodomy for those seeking it as a life choice, but rather those who were hardwired from the start for it. To take a crude e.g. Take the son of a WANA operation veteran and land him in the midst of eunuchs, see if he does not develop into one. The same way, take a small boy taken in by Eunuchs and put him straight out into cadet college and further on, see how he does not develop into a hard core fellow.

However, take the same boys and try reintroducing them into the societies they came in from and the process to convert them back would be impossible regardless of whatever hormonal therapies ensue. Those that have had a lifestyle that has changed them into what they are cannot be entirely blamed for their choices. At least not those who have had an entire adult development cycle that changed them.
As for those whose brains were hardwired to develop that way, we cant blame them at all or shun them out of society.

There is a spread of deviancy, just as there is mistaking disabilities for deviant behaviour. Society itself is at fault for allowing such prejudices to ferment. The article posted reeks of hypocrisy when it talks of ET talking about the so called LGBT community(who in many cases are basically the results of social upbringing and very few genuine cases) when they ignore Eunuchs, and the much less spoken but widely known habits of "bacha/londa bazi" prevalent in our society. So while the attention seeking desires of LGBTs aside, our society itself is, to use the most appropiate word; beghairat in that it will create a fuss over two girls rebelling against perverse social pressures and making out whilst quietly shoving up the various acts of sodomy that occur across our rural and urban societies within places such as Truck stops to more sanctimonious Madressahs and Public schools.
Quite frankly, whilst finding both disgusting.. I would not be threatened by two girls(or guys) from generally affluent families choosing their sexual preferences as compared to the horror of someone being sodomized by force.

Do you know how the brain works?

Before giving such a study please do learn the functions of a brain...

From your argument I see you chunk every Biology field or anything related to the bio (life) in 1 category be it neuroscience, psychology, Psychiatric (This bit I am a little shocked) as well as molecular biology....Its like shoving all computer programs as the same be it Microsoft related or Linux!

From that article you posted:

Guillamon isn't sure whether the four regions are at all associated with notions of gender, but Ivanka Savic-Berglund at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, thinks they might be. One of the four regions – the superior longitudinal fascicle – is particularly interesting, she says. "It connects the parietal lobe [involved in sensory processing] and frontal lobe [involved in planning movement] and may have implications in body perception.

Although the sample was too small to identify any gender differences in development, Deoni expects to see differences developing in the brain "by 2 or 3 years of age".

Guillamon thinks such scans may not help in all cases. "Research has shown that white matter matures during the first 20 to 30 years of life," he says. "People may experience early or late onset of transsexuality and we don't know what causes this difference."

Nothing actually to do with in born (nature)...

Transsexual differences caught on brain scan - life - 26 January 2011 - New Scientist

 

[I.R.A]

Holy ALLAH, I did not know Qaum e Loot were suffering from some defective genes or syndromes or social upbringing problems. All I know is they were punished for their lust, for something that nature never agrees to, which never makes any sense. Its Lust pure lust.

 

[Zibago]

ET,DAWN and The news are very biased news groups

 

[LeGenD]

@Oscar

Assuming that you have studied Holy Quran, you must have learned about Qaum-e-Lut and its fate, right?

If yes, I suggest that you pay attention to the "fate" aspect. Start from Dead Sea as a hint, if you want "scientific explanation" of events concerning Dead Sea and fate of ancient human settlements around it.

In-fact, a similar event occurred in Europe. Try Pompeii.

And if you have studied Holy Quran, you would know that Allah Almighty have forbidden homosexuality.

Furthermore, do not mistakenly assume that we (humans) understand genes, nature, and cosmic ground realities to the fullest. As a hint: DNA at 60: Still Much to Learn - Scientific American

---

On a general note, Islam represents a societal culture that people are expected to follow. The idea of "freedom of expression" does not fits in all scenarios. People are expected to abide by rules, become good and productive citizens, and avoid crimes.

If "freedom of expression" is an argument, then people should have freedom to commit crimes as well. Problematic right?

Wait, "as long as others are not harmed" argument incoming from critics of Islam. While people can be immoral without harming others, their are long-term disastrous repercussions of immorality in a society that are overlooked. The concept of morality, defined via "abrahamic faiths," are intended to define the concepts of civilization and societal norms and values irrespective of harm based argument. Morality represents evolution of human behavior on the basis of principles of "right" and "wrong," that differentiate humans from animals in behavioral aspects. Holy revelations such as Quran and Ten Commandments offer guidance towards this end, the right path.

 

[Icewolf]

Personal attack isnt going to take you far...Show me a gene which gets "turned on" and 1 day you feel like changing your sexual orientation!

And what I claimed was in a scientific journal a homosexual scientist was trying to prove that there is a gene associated with people wanting to change their sexual orientation...Now if you dont read such scientific journals, then I believe your comment lands back on you!

Ughh so much pseudo science...

Genes Dont cause homosexuality because homosexuality ISNT a genotype or phenotype.
It may be an imbalance of hormones in the brain, but then again, who are we to decide what's normal and what's not normal? Also, a child with male siblings is more likely to be gay as the mothers immune system produces more anti bodies against testosterone when you have too many male children... This womanizes the fetus.

The human brain is very very complicated. Billions of neurons firing at once. Their is never a clear cut explanation to how a person acts, thinks or feels

 

[Dubious]

Genes Dont cause homosexuality because homosexuality ISNT a genotype or phenotype.

Hence why I said it is has something to do with behaviour...

who are we to decide what's normal and what's not normal?

When 2 organs complement each other and are the cause of the survival of the race, I think normal human can add 2 and 2....It isnt rocket science!

Also, a child with male siblings is more likely to be gay as the mothers immune system produces more anti bodies against testosterone when you have too many male children... This womanizes the fetus.

I am yet to read concrete evidence of this!

The human brain is very very complicated. Billions of neurons firing at once. Their is never a clear cut explanation to how a person acts, thinks or feels

Tell that to @Oscar and
Yet people blindly want to give scientific reasons for being gay rather than putting it as a choice?

Qaum e Loot

Uff khudaya! qaum-e-loot made a choice ALLAH would not punish a defective quam after giving them a defect ......Theirs was a choice as they WENT TO SIMILAR SEX people out of willingness not out of wrong wiring...or having any syndrome!

Its Lust pure lust.

And that was a choice not in the genes coz if it was in the genes and GOD put it there a Just god wouldnt punish one after putting it there!

 

[I.R.A]

Uff khudaya! qaum-e-loot made a choice ALLAH would not punish a defective quam after giving them a defect ......Theirs was a choice as they WENT TO SIMILAR SEX people out of willingness not out of wrong wiring...or having any syndrome!

And that was a choice not in the genes coz if it was in the genes and GOD put it there a Just god wouldnt punish one after putting it there!

Thank you for coming straight to the point................ this is exactly what I meant. Its lust pure lust no gene, no syndrome, no explanation or justification for their actions based on lust.

 

[Spring Onion]

Guys express tribune is highly biased and india funded bathroom rag extremely retarded newspaper. They have no ethics. Dawn news isnt different but et is further low. Et keeps publishing agenda articles taken from bathroom rag indian newspapers with total anti pak agenda. Those articles are lies. Today i went there and saw an article pakistan is 8th dangerous country. This was a very old last years article originally posted by toilet rag indian papers and now they republished and et's indian funder as usual asked them to publish it. So now its sitting there,published the the economist times, one if the very hostile anti pak newspapera.
Their media industry is constantly at work in creating misunderstandings amongst pakistanis and pakistans friend nations mainly china.
Bohat ghatiya newspapers hain all of these.
If our country wants something positive then isi or army will have to step in nd introduce a good quality unbiased fair but good quality again english daily.
Pakistanis from wat i have seen dont wat to read these newspapers but haveno options with them.

Infact in et recently a news report came up on saulat mirza ,so the report said and gave link to a bbc news report and said the report from bbc says that jail officials or someone has said that saulat mirzas statement was recorded by security intelligence officials. When you open bbc news it wasnt written there. It was a big shocking yellow journalism done by et. Someone i think had pointed that out in comments too. This is their standard , typing brazen lies.

Yeh the only world class Newspaper here is "UMMAT" of "Daily Pakistan"

 

[Shamain]

Yeh the only world class Newspaper here is "UMMAT" of "Daily Pakistan"

No ididnt say that. They all are trash. And et is pretty much ummat newspaper in english. Dawn is also like that. All our newspapers are rubbish.
I dont get why you got sarcastic.

 

[SQ8]

Tell that to @Oscar and
Yet people blindly want to give scientific reasons for being gay rather than putting it as a choice?

Read the reply to @syedali73 and get back to me then.

Holy ALLAH, I did not know Qaum e Loot were suffering from some defective genes or syndromes or social upbringing problems. All I know is they were punished for their lust, for something that nature never agrees to, which never makes any sense. Its Lust pure lust.

Exactly, lets cull all the Hijras publicly whilst we all chant "Allah Hu, Allah Hu, Allah hu"

 

[I.R.A]

Exactly, lets cull all the Hijras publicly whilst we all chant "Allah Hu, Allah Hu, Allah hu"

At least I would differentiate between a Hijra and a shokia gay / lesbian. My comments here are gay and lesbian specific, if you care to read again. I never disrespected Hijras in my life and never will.

 

[SQ8]

At least I would differentiate between a Hijra and a shokia gay / lesbian. My comments here are gay and lesbian specific, if you care to read again. I never disrespected Hijras in my life and never will.

Ok , so the Shokia gay/lesbian types and then wear black clothes, a black flag and wave Ak-47s and then chant.

 

[Kabira]

At least I would differentiate between a Hijra and a shokia gay / lesbian. My comments here are gay and lesbian specific, if you care to read again. I never disrespected Hijras in my life and never will.

You realize many hijras marry, have kids and when there is oportunity also take care of their actual desires? Not every transgrnder in Pak decide to become khusra. Many under family pressure marry and have kids. There are video interviews of khusra comunity on youtube.