The Era of Total U.S. Submarine Dominance Over China Is Ending

[beijingwalker]

The Era of Total U.S. Submarine Dominance Over China Is Ending​

New Chinese submarines and sensors to catch U.S. subs will alter the balance of power​

A Chinese nuclear-powered submarine took part in a 2019 naval parade off the eastern port city of Qingdao. PHOTO: JASON LEE/REUTER
By Alastair Gale
Updated Nov. 20, 2023 12:00 am ET

For decades, the U.S. hasn’t had to worry much about China’s submarines. They were noisy and easy to track. The Chinese military, meanwhile, struggled to detect America’s ultraquiet submarines.

Now, China is narrowing one of the biggest gaps separating the U.S. and Chinese militaries as it makes advances in its submarine technology and undersea detection capabilities, with major implications for American military planning for a potential conflict over Taiwan.

Early this year, China put to sea a nuclear-powered attack submarine with a pump-jet propulsion system instead of a propeller, satellite imagery showed. It was the first time noise-reducing technology used on the latest American submarines had been seen on a Chinese submarine.

A few months earlier, satellite images of China’s manufacturing base for nuclear-powered submarines in the northeastern city of Huludao showed hull sections laid out in the complex that were larger than the hull of any existing Chinese submarine. A second modern construction hall at the plant was finished in 2021, indicating plans to boost output.

At the same time, the western Pacific is becoming more treacherous for U.S. submarines. Beijing has built or nearly finished several underwater sensor networks, known as the “Underwater Great Wall," in the South China Sea and other regions around the Chinese coast. The networks give it a much better ability to detect enemy submarines, according to Chinese military and academic texts.

The People’s Liberation Army, as China’s military is known, is getting better at finding enemy submarines by adding patrol aircraft and helicopters that pick up sonar information from buoys in the sea. Most of China’s navy now has the ability to deploy underwater listening devices called hydrophones on cables trailing ships or submarines.

In August, China conducted a submarine-hunting exercise lasting more than 40 hours in the South China Sea, involving dozens of Y-8 anti-submarine patrol aircraft. A few weeks earlier, the Chinese and Russian navies conducted a joint anti-submarine warfare exercise in the Bering Sea, off the coast of Alaska.

The developments mean the era of unchallenged dominance of the U.S. under the seas around China is ending.

In recent years, China has also rapidly expanded its surface fleet. It now exceeds the U.S. fleet by number of ships, although China’s ships are generally smaller and less sophisticated. In response, a larger percentage of the U.S. Navy has been deployed to the Pacific, including some of America’s most advanced ships and aircraft. The U.S. has also increased

https://twitter.com/x/status/1726518355018780962

The Era of Total U.S. Submarine Dominance Over China Is Ending

New Chinese vessels and sensors to catch American subs will alter the balance of power.

www.wsj.com

 

[beijingwalker]

‘Underwater Great Wall’: China Is Closing The Submarine Gap With The US​

MICAELA BURROWINVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, DEFENSE
November 20, 20239:33 AM ET

China is rapidly closing the gap in critical submarine capabilities that challenge decades of unmitigated U.S. dominance in the deep sea and could have critical implications in a Taiwan scenario, The Wall Street Journal reported.

In 2023, China put to sea a nuclear-powered attack submarine equipped for the first time with a noise-reducing pump-jet propulsion system, marking a major advance in submarine technology to match the way the U.S. equips its own submarines, the WSJ reported. The quieting systems will allow them to evade detection by American submarines and patrol aircraft, while construction on an “underwater great wall” of complex sensors will allow China to identify incoming enemy assets, Chinese military and academic texts say.

“The implications for the U.S. and our Pacific allies will be profound,” Christopher Carlson, a former U.S. Navy officer, told the WSJ.

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) submarine expansion means the U.S. will need more patrol aircraft and attack submarines in the Indo-Pacific theater to locate, track and target Chinese submarine targets, Carlson said.

Chinese nuclear-powered attack submarines could be assigned on hunter-killer missions to target U.S. and allied submarines in the Taiwan Strait, increasing the difficulty of coming to Taiwan’s defense, Brent Sadler, a naval expert at the Heritage Foundation, told the WSJ. Simulations direct U.S. military intervention during a Chinese invasion of Taiwan generally assume U.S. submarines would operate near the strait to find and sink PLA warships.

Currently, China has six nuclear-powered attack submarines in addition to a diesel-electric variety developed through reverse engineering submarines purchased from the Soviet Union, the WSJ reported.

Given China’s massive shipbuilding capacity, Carlson predicted China could produce nuclear-powered submarines at triple the U.S. production rate once it decides on the next design, according to the WSJ.

The Pentagon’s latest report on Chinese military power said China had 60 attack and ballistic-missile submarines by the end of 2022 and could operate up to 80 by 2035.

Gen. Antony Cotton told Congress in March that China had equipped its existing ballistic missile submarines with new missiles capable of reaching the U.S. mainland while the submarines remain close to China, the WSJ reported.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1725208358716645610

China may not confirm a final design for the next generation of nuclear-powered submarines for years; the nuclear-powered vessel revealed earlier in 2023 could just be the latest prototype in a long development period going through multiple stages, according to the WSJ.

U.S. Virginia-class submarines and the planned Columbia-class submarines are at least a generation ahead of the most advanced Chinese submarine, analysts say, according to the WSJ.

However, China could exploit its advantage in tonnage and proximity to the mainland in any conflict scenario, straining the U.S. military’s resources and ability to track Chinese naval assets.

China’s growing underwater sensor network in the East China Sea and South China Sea also negate some of U.S. submarines’ stealth advantage, Bryan Clark, a researcher at the Hudson Institute, told the WSJ. The U.S. will have to develop a new strategy to confuse or evade the sensors, he said.

The Department of Defense did not immediately respond to the Daily Caller News Foundation’s request for comment.

‘Underwater Great Wall’: China Is Closing The Submarine Gap With The US

China is rapidly closing the gap in critical submarine capabilities that challenge decades of unmitigated U.S. dominance in the deep seas.

dailycaller.com

 

[buntalanlucu]

The US dominance on submarine technology always dependent on their propaganda , the Soviet submarine tech already surpassed them before the fall of soviet union. China play catch up but even by 2015 it is obvious chinese submarine technology research will eclipse the western tech in less than 5 years (2020).

the chinese underwater CAPTOR mines that spooked USS Connecticut to flee chinese waters at flank speek (that caused them to hit underwater mountain) are the proof that chinese underwater detection and counter measure easily defeat the most modern US Submarine.

 

[Beidou2020]

Type 09V SSN will be the submarine equivalent to the Type 055 destroyer.

 

[Grandy]

Another First for China: No Secrets in the Pacific, Three Key U.S. Strategic Weapons Neutralized​

Recently, a tech company in Jilin Province successfully conducted a high-speed laser image transmission test between its independently developed vehicle-mounted laser communication ground station and the “Jilin-1” satellite constellation MF02A04 laser terminal. This is China’s first exclusively and autonomously completed operational application test for space-to-earth laser high-speed image transmission, with its technical capabilities reaching an internationally advanced level. Many might find this news bewildering, but the strategic forces on the U.S. Pacific coast are probably losing sleep over it.

According to public data, the laser image transmission test achieved a communication bandwidth of up to 10Gb per second, more than 10 times that of traditional microwave data transmission. In the future, this will expand to between 40Gbps and 100Gbps. Unlike previous radio wave transmissions that occupied channels and could be detected, these laser transmissions are point-to-point, difficult to detect by third parties, and boast much higher speeds and bandwidths. Moreover, they are compact and can be deployed anywhere at any time.

A look at the research entity reveals the civilian applications of this technology, significantly enhancing the efficiency of data acquisition from the Jilin-1 satellite. It’s highly applicable in areas like land and resources monitoring, land surveying, mineral resource development, smart city construction, environmental monitoring, disaster prevention, and emergency response. For military applications, stealth aircraft could use lasers to communicate with satellites, ensuring radio silence and resistance to electronic warfare. Furthermore, submarines wouldn’t need to surface to communicate; lasers can penetrate water even better than visible light, allowing submarines at depths of 100-200 meters to receive transmissions. This technology can also detect and distinguish sensitive targets more efficiently, likely causing anxiety for the U.S.





Aircraft carriers are a crucial component of U.S. strategic weaponry, but their movements are no secret. Years ago, the Jilin-1 had already showcased video footage of the U.S. “Nimitz” aircraft carrier entering a port. The new laser communication stations can transmit clearer, faster updates on the movements of these U.S. carriers. More importantly, they can monitor nuclear-powered submarines in real-time. As mentioned, our submarines can communicate without surfacing, transmitting the real-time location of enemy submarines without being easily detected.
Additionally, the recent successful sea trial of the “Navigator” deep-sea intelligent optical guidance device and system provides robust technical support for deep-sea exploration and other marine activities. Coupled with this laser communication ground station, it becomes an optimal combination for tracking U.S. nuclear submarines. Even the stealth capabilities of U.S. aircraft can be detected on a physical level.
Though many are skeptical, citing laser transmission’s vulnerability to weather conditions like smog or snow, such concerns are overblown. Given the portability of the ground stations, simply deploying multiple bases should mitigate this issue, especially since it’s improbable for all of China to be shrouded in clouds or fog simultaneously.
Laser communications on Earth pave the way for interstellar communication, where weather will be a non-issue. These days, while the U.S. is embroiled in internal conflicts, budget disputes, and stretched thin on multiple fronts, China’s progress is notable, from the “Chapter Three” quantum computer to the debut of hydrogen-powered vessels to space-to-earth laser transmissions. The trajectories of China and the U.S. seem like parallel lines, with one steadily rising and the other seemingly on the decline, bound to converge at some point.

Source: 7th Observation Room

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Good that there is China on the world stage.

 

[LeGenD]

The US dominance on submarine technology always dependent on their propaganda , the Soviet submarine tech already surpassed them before the fall of soviet union. China play catch up but even by 2015 it is obvious chinese submarine technology research will eclipse the western tech in less than 5 years (2020).

the chinese underwater CAPTOR mines that spooked USS Connecticut to flee chinese waters at flank speek (that caused them to hit underwater mountain) are the proof that chinese underwater detection and counter measure easily defeat the most modern US Submarine.

This is false. Soviet submarine tech did not surpass American:

A large number of underwater mountains are not mapped and this is why USS Connecticut crashed into one.

It is typical of Americans to complain about another country developing advanced weapon systems. Americans will come with countermeasures in silence like they have done before.

 

[beijingwalker]

Maybe future submarines will all be electricity powered and noise level can be reduced to zero, like EVs.

 

[S10]

The original 093 should be roughly equal to early Los Angeles class. The upgraded 093A should be on par with improved Los Angeles class (688i). The latest 093B should match Block I Virginia.

I hope 095 can achieve parity with SSN(X).

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The original 093 should be roughly equal to early Los Angeles class. The upgraded 093A should be on par with improved Los Angeles class (688i). The latest 093B should match Block I Virginia.

I hope 095 can achieve parity with SSN(X).

Because the US shipbuilding industry is dwindling, hence they can no longer mass produce the Virginia class like before.

Their skillful workforce has also been phased out with the coming retirement, and most American youths cannot handle this kind of job.

 

[S10]

Because the US shipbuilding industry is dwindling, hence they can no longer mass produce the Virginia class like before.

Their skillful workforce has also been phased out with the coming retirement, and most American youths cannot handle this kind of job.

Americunts have already started giving naval repair contracts to Japan, South Korea and India. I think these countries will help them build ships in the future as well. Don't expect their decline to be rapid.

 

[Manidabest]

Chinese are investing heavily on r & D and they are very succesfful

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Americunts have already started giving naval repair contracts to Japan, South Korea and India. I think these countries will help them build ships in the future as well. Don't expect their decline to be rapid.

Japan and South Korea got the shipbuilding production, but they don't have the knowhow to build the nuclear submarines.

Unlikely the US will divulge the secrets of their nuclear subs to them.

 

[S10]

Japan and South Korea got the shipbuilding production, but they don't have the knowhow to build the nuclear submarines.

Unlikely the US will divulge the secrets of their nuclear subs to them.

Japan has produce some very capable conventional subs in the past, and they can build nuclear attack submarines with the right technical guidance. The same goes for South Korea.

Underestimating them will be a grave error.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Japan has produce some very capable conventional subs in the past, and they can build nuclear attack submarines with the right technical guidance. The same goes for South Korea.

Underestimating them will be a grave error.

The US doesn't want to share their critical technologies with their slaves.