The Drums of War? Pentagon Provokes New Crisis With China

[chauism]

There is a piece of history from a book I am reading recently I like to share here.

There was a time when Thomas Jefferson was the POTUS, even the nowadays almighty US navy if you can call it as a navy back then, and its merchant ships were constantly bullied and molestered by the Royal Navy during British-French war, and there was nothing US could do to prevent it even though it happened just 3 miles away from its coast. The point is that time will change everything, just be patient. Today China's situation is much much better comparing to what US was facing at that time. So just wait and work hard, one day in the future you might find yourself in an opposite position.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

This is why China loves Pakistan, and hates India.

Indians don't care about the value of Chinese life.

By the way Chinese soldiers were fighting in Vietnam when America was defeated. Same as in North Korea. America stops attacking countries when they go nuclear, which is why they backed off North Korea recently.

Next time you wonder why China loves Pakistan, look at your own attitude towards us. Look how excited you are to see millions of Chinese people die by promoting such a war... for stupid reasons like clearing national debts.

Remember the USA did not lose a military conflict in Vietnam, at some point the USA realized that communism was a failure and it was not in the USA interest to continue the war in Vietnam.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

If you don't pay back the debt, who would be foolish to lend to you in the future?

Chinas economy is interlinked with the rest of the world. Any conflict would have a knock on effect on the rest of the world including America.

Finally, China wouldn't need to defeat the US outright, just inflict enough casualties to change public support in America. This is a real possibility if you consider how many servicemen there are on naval vessels.

The other possibility is all out war, which is what is going to happen if China attacks american shipping and not just with USA but NATO. How many Chinese ships do you think will be still above water if there is an attack on an american military ship. If China wants a war with the USA that a good way to start one. The USA can not allow China to determine what oceans that the rest of the world can use and what they can not.

 

[chauism]

Remember the USA did not lose a military conflict in Vietnam, at some point the USA realized that communism was a failure and it was not in the USA interest to continue the war in Vietnam.

This topic had already been discussed in this thread, I think you might want to have a look at it.

Also you might want to look into the memoirs from Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon and their staffs'.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

This topic had already been discussed in this thread, I think you might want to have a look at it.

Also you might want to look into the memoirs from Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon and their stuffs.

Another thing to remember any time communism won the people lost. Russia 30 million dead, china 75 million dead, cambodia pol pot millions more, not killed by the USA but their communist masters.

 

[chauism]

Another thing to remember any time communism won the people lost. Russia 30 million dead, china 75 million dead, cambodia pol pot millions more, not killed by the USA but their communist masters.

Strawman argument is not going to help you on this topic.

People in South Vietnam were not any better under Ngo Dinh Diem's regime. Overall at that time communist Viet Minh was more appealing to the majority. Viet Minh could not have won the war without the support of the Vietnamese people, but then again it had nothing to do with communism or capitalism idealogy, it had to do with who could better provide what people wants. Same reason communist governments in East Europe had failed.

You don't see much in the press about Vietnam's achievement recently, but like China it is also developing at an amusing speed. For the past ten years its annual GDP growth is at average 7-8%. In 2005 the GDP growth was 8.4% , the second largest growth in Asia, trailing only China's.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Another thing to remember any time communism won the people lost. Russia 30 million dead, china 75 million dead, cambodia pol pot millions more, not killed by the USA but their communist masters.

75 million? Rose again?

 

[huzihaidao12]

I would like the number "75 million" of the source and how it was calculated?

 

[huzihaidao12]

I need to remind the official Chinese figures "3500 million"? Again reminded that "3500 million" because of a famine in Third World countries, not a "massacre"?

 

[gambit]

Strawman argument is not going to help you on this topic.

And lies will not help yours.

People in South Vietnam were not any better under Ngo Dinh Diem's regime.

BS. South Vietnam was no paragon of democratic virtues but the people overall had better living standards, more freedoms including a more diverse press, better education, better health, and so on...

Overall at that time communist Viet Minh was more appealing to the majority.

BS. The 1968 Tet Offensive, of which I lived through, proved wrong that myth. The people did not rally to the communist cause as the North Vietnamese Politburo predicted. In fact, the NVA's top general, Vo Nguyen Giap, actually opposed the planned offensive because he felt that communist support in the South was not as popular as the Politburo believed. Giap was correct as the NVA/VC offensive was defeated.

Viet Minh could not have won the war without the support of the Vietnamese people,...

BS. After the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong, which was the guerrilla arm of the NVA, was nearly wiped out in the South. This proved that the Viet Minh, which has its origin in the North and was murderous towards non-communist nationalists, did not have popular support as communist propaganda portrayed.

...but then again it had nothing to do with communism or capitalism idealogy,...

BS. Of course differences in ideology was the motivator for the war in the first place.

...it had to do with who could better provide what people wants.

And South Vietnam was de facto an independent state. Independence was what the Vietnamese wanted.

Same reason communist governments in East Europe had failed.

Yes...The communist experiment failed. Miserably and bloodily.

You don't see much in the press about Vietnam's achievement recently, but like China it is also developing at an amusing speed. For the past ten years its annual GDP growth is at average 7-8%. In 2005 the GDP growth was 8.4% , the second largest growth in Asia, trailing only China's.

Yes...Communism set countries back. The difference rates at which they recognize their error and change their ways does not negate the fact that communism is a failure.

 

[huzihaidao12]

The communist experiment failed. Miserably and bloodily？


1979China is much better than a hundred years after 1840China

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Strawman argument is not going to help you on this topic.

People in South Vietnam were not any better under Ngo Dinh Diem's regime. Overall at that time communist Viet Minh was more appealing to the majority. Viet Minh could not have won the war without the support of the Vietnamese people, but then again it had nothing to do with communism or capitalism idealogy, it had to do with who could better provide what people wants. Same reason communist governments in East Europe had failed.

You don't see much in the press about Vietnam's achievement recently, but like China it is also developing at an amusing speed. For the past ten years its annual GDP growth is at average 7-8%. In 2005 the GDP growth was 8.4% , the second largest growth in Asia, trailing only China's.

If you have one dollar and it becomes two dollars you have a 100% increase. Tell me if China has a percapita GDP of $4000 and grows at 8 percent a year, and the USA has a percapita GDP of 48000 and grows at 3 percent a year, how long will it take for China to catch up to the USA.

Gross domestic product (GDP) measures the economic aggregate of a country, while per-capita GDP assesses the prosperity degree of the country. In the economic circle, people, in most cases, take per-capita GDP as an important index of dividing economic development stages

China has about 600 million people living on a dollar per day. That has the potential to be a real problem is the reason for the censorship in China, The chinese goverment is scared to death of what might happen if they become unhappy.

 

[huzihaidao12]

For the time being I do not argue, because I do not know the history 1959-1979, so I do not argue with you, for the time being.

 

[gambit]

The communist experiment failed. Miserably and bloodily？


1979China is much better than a hundred years after 1840China

And the US in 1979 was far better than both the Soviet Union and China. Who collapsed spectacularly and ignobly? Who felt compelled to change after that collapse? So yes, the communist experiment failed. The world is always comparing one thing against another. That is our nature. Without prosperous democracies, then communist regimes can claim their successes. But that is not the case. I have been to East Berlin when it existed and when I see people look at my Western clothes with envy, I know they are quietly comparing their miserable society against the one I came from.

 

[huzihaidao12]

If you have one dollar and it becomes two dollars you have a 100% increase. Tell me if China has a percapita GDP of $4000 and grows at 8 percent a year, and the USA has a percapita GDP of 48000 and grows at 3 percent a year, how long will it take for China to catch up to the USA.

Gross domestic product (GDP) measures the economic aggregate of a country, while per-capita GDP assesses the prosperity degree of the country. In the economic circle, people, in most cases, take per-capita GDP as an important index of dividing economic development stages

China has about 600 million people living on a dollar per day. That has the potential to be a real problem is the reason for the censorship in China, The chinese goverment is scared to death of what might happen if they become unhappy.

You should tell the West, not again "China threat" theory, we would appreciate you to do for China