The delusion of identity

[Hermione]

I don't remember dalit.org being the dalit organization that came out in opposition to changes in the literature.

Simple India had to become secular because of the polarization between Muslim and Hindu Indians after partition. So many Muslims were left over in India that it would not have worked if India was made into a theocratic society, not only that but even varios schools of thought in hinduism differ amongst one another so which would have been state religion? The only thing many schools of thought in hinduism had in common was the caste system itself. This naturally benefited Dalits as well and I am glad you are doing well but like I said there are still instances where that is not the case you forget much of India is still rural. Naturally it was because she was your diplomat and because she was a woman who was strip searched, her caste did not matter she was representing your country.

It was the decision of Hindus to let Muslims stay in India. Else had the bloodshed continued, all Muslims would have fled to Pakistan. Hindus had the upper hand and they could very well fashion a country their desired at that time, whether theocratic or democratic. You are trying to equate Hinduism with Islam saying some dogmatic rigidity would have followed if it was a theocratic state. Fact is Hinduism is not a book based religion. People don't run to their books to see if something is permitted or not to conduct their everyday life. RSS was by far the most popular organization even during Nehru's time. It alone could have changed the fate of India and made India a Hindu state if it wanted. Fact is it did not challenge the state militarily because it sacrificed in the interest of the country and its long won freedom. RSS is also the most casteless organization.

What naturally benefited Dalits? Dalits were Hindu then and they are Hindus today. Ambedkar the tallest leader from the Dalit community did not even ask for a separate electoral representation when he could have.

I know my country better than you, both rural and urban. There are poor Brahmins, poor Dalits, poor in every community.

Mayawati a 4 time chief minister of the most populous state UP is a dalit. She is a political force to reckon with whether corrupt or not. UP being as backward as it was, elected her time and again. This should tell you something, or else you can continue with the picture in your head about evil casteist India. It wont matter a bit to India.

 

[SamantK]

State orchestrated riots are called genocide and India has the unique distinction of orchestrating such genocides on every minority - Sikhs in Punjab, Christians in Orissa, Muslims in Gujrat. Its sad that Indian trolls expect the world to treat these cases as mere riots.

No proof, those who investigated found no proof..

This rhetoric is the same as India supporting BLA and even Taliban.. Good god, do you guys hear yourselves?


But wait, a Pakistani who has no connection to this event and does not get effected by it in any way is castigating us. Whereas people who are part of terrorists in your country are free to roam and organise rallies...

 

[Kloitra]

You missed out the last row, which is the final version decided by the board.
Change to, “In the second millennium B.C.E., invaders called Aryans came to northern India.”



Please refer to the second half of my post, California Education Board regarding Aryan as foreign invader. (I'm outside now)

I didn't. The publisher states invaders called Aryans came, and Board telling them to add that this theory (AIT) is contradicted by scholarly evidence.

Now it beats me why they allowed the invaders things to be printed and what is contradicted by scholarly evidence. Don't have time to go in details, I will be glad if you can clarify with proper references.

 

[KingMamba]

But why you mentioned clan names of Rajputs, keeping record of clan names is an important aspect of Hinduism, everyone has a clan name.

Yeah and if you are part of those clans you are Rajput simple. If not you are not.

 

[INDIC]

Yeah and if you are part of those clans you are Rajput simple. If not you are not.

There is lots of prestige associated for being a Rajput, so it seems Muslim Rajputs couldn't give up their Hindu identity. I never heard people with Butt surname calling themselves as Muslim Brahmins. Rajput and Jatts also keep clan names(gotra) as their surnames, they were preserved too after leaving Hinduism.

 

[INDIC]

The paragraph above clearly stated Chinese moved south since Han dynasty. In fact, during Qin dynasty more than 2000 yrs ago. Tang was famous coz it was the most prominent group.

As to majority or not, there was no exact census, in all likelihood Han chinese must be the largest as we're the oldest and largest enthic group in East Asia. And numbers would have multiplied over a period of 2000 years. He probably said that to brush you away as everyone knows your reputation. These days, people don't even reply to your posts.

Your friend wrote this.

Northern Chinese migration started to southern China during the Qin and Han dynasties and big migrations happened in the eastern Jin dynasty. But natives still outnumbered migrants. It was during the late Tang when so many northern migrants moved south and finally outnumbered the natives, and during the Song, southern China overtook northern China in population.

Southern China was assimilated as Han Chinese just a 1000 years back but still can talk crap about so called Aryan invasion theory of 1500BC. That's sounds extremely silly my Tang Chinese friend.

 

[Fattyacids]

I didn't. The publisher states invaders called Aryans came, and Board telling them to add that this theory (AIT) is contradicted by scholarly evidence.

Now it beats me why they allowed the invaders things to be printed and what is contradicted by scholarly evidence. Don't have time to go in details, I will be glad if you can clarify with proper references.

Your inherent bias had blinded your reading and comprehension skills It was the Hindu group that said AIT was controversial, not the board. In fact, board disapproved it. Hence, "Aryans invaders" remained unchanged.

Rejected edits and corrections

Original textbook draft: “Around 1500 B.C.E., invaders called Aryans conquered northern India.

(Hindu group) Ad hoc committee action: Publisher is directed to add a clarifying note that the “Aryan invasion theory” has been contradicted by scholarly evidence.

(This is the from the board)
Final SBE/CDE recommendation
Prof Bajpai and Prof. Witzel
Change to, “In the second millennium B.C.E., invaders called Aryans came to northern India.”

California textbook controversy over Hindu history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hermione]

Archaeologists confirm Indian civilization is 2000 years older than previously believed | GlobalPost

 

[Fattyacids]

Your friend wrote this.

Southern China was assimilated as Han Chinese just a 1000 years back but still can talk crap about so called Aryan invasion theory of 1500BC. That's sounds extremely silly my Tang Chinese friend.

Are you retarded?? My post you quoted was my reply to Wholegrain. There was no exact census, in all likelihood Han chinese must be the largest as we're the oldest and largest enthic group in East Asia. And numbers would have multiplied over a period of 2000 years. Wholegrain probably said that to brush you away as everyone knows your reputation. These days, people don't even reply to your posts"

Chinese had moved South since Qin and Han dynasty more than 2000 yrs ago. This is consistent with Wholegrain as well.

Now, so what if a group from Tang dynasty moved south in 900 AD????
Han Chinese are the same people with the same DNA and the same culture.
Aryan are different people from dravidian or ASI, Aryan are foreign race with different civilization and language.

 

[INDIC]

Are you retarded?? My post you quoted was my reply to Wholegrain post. There was no exact census, in all likelihood Han chinese must be the largest as we're the oldest and largest enthic group in East Asia. And numbers would have multiplied over a period of 2000 years. Wholegrain probably said that to brush you away as everyone knows your reputation. These days, people don't even reply to your posts"

Chinese had moved South since Qin and Han dynasty more than 2000 yrs ago. This is consistent with Wholegrain as well.

Now, so what if a group from Tang dynasty moved south in 900 AD????
Han Chinese are the same people with the same DNA and the same culture. Aryan are different people from dravidian or ASI, Aryan are foreign race with different civilization.

That Southern China has non-Han majority until Tang thus not the part of Chinese civilization or Sinitic identity. Even if you take many Southerners got sinticized during Eastern Jin, its still too late in Chinese history.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Most Pakistanis here seem very proud of their roots and their connection to the "Cradle of Civilization" known as the IVC, which existed almost entirely within the borders of modern-day Pakistan.

That's just such a dishonest argument. You are completely ignoring the FACT that some Pakistanis trumpet the IVC, the same IVC that ceased to exist some 3500 years ago, ONLY because its accidentally largely situated in today's Pakistan.

The whole IVC argument only bolsters the case that Pakistanis desperately try to be ''not indian'' and hence cling to 3500 yr old IVC as a fake claim that they acknowledge their ''roots'' ignoring the next 3500 years selectively. Dishonesty has to have a limit, and you being taken in by such intellectual jugglery is surprising.

 

[Fattyacids]

That Southern China has non-Han majority until Tang thus not the part of Chinese civilization or Sintic identity. Even if you take many Southerners got sinticized during Eastern Jin, its still too late in Chinese history.

No, that was something wholegrain said to brush you off. There was never any census. IN fact, Chinese were the oldest and largest ethinic group in entire East Asia. Chinese had moved South since Qin and Han dynasty more than 2000 years ago. Chinese all share the same DNA.

You are distorting historical facts just to make an offensive. But it does not hold any water. Chinese can move anywhere in China, north, south, east or west. This is not the same as East European Aryan vs Dravidian/Ancestral Southern Indian people.

Your argument is as retarded as saying Japanese who moved North to populate Hokkaido are not Japanese. French who moved to Southern French coast for warmer climate are not French.

 

[INDIC]

No, that was something wholegrain said to brush you off. There was never any census. IN fact, Chinese are the oldest and largest ethinic group in entire East Asia. Chinese had moved South since Qin and Han dynasty more than 2000 years ago. Chinese share the same DNA.

You are distorting historical facts just to make an offensive. But it does not hold any water. Chinese can move anywhere in China, south or west. This is not the same as Aryan and ASI.

Your argument is as retarded as saying Japanese who moved North to populate Hokkaido are not Japanese. French who moved to Southern French coast for warmer climate are not French.

Newer Southern Hans people originated out of intermarriages between Hans and Non-Hans, it wasn't just only a settlement from North. Sharing of same DNA is other thing but time of origin of Han majority South China is just a 1000 years old history around Late Tang Dynasty, before that it was non-Han majority. Genetic studies proves ANI and ASI mixing took much before 3000 years ago in entire India both in North and South India, relative to that origin of Southern Han Chinese people is extremely new, even Anglo-Saxons are older than Southern Hans.

 

[Fattyacids]

Newer Southern Hans people originated out of intermarriages between Hans and Non-Hans, it wasn't just only a settlement from North. Sharing of same DNA is other thing but time of origin of Han majority South China is just a 1000 years old history around Late Tang Dynasty, before that it was non-Han majority. Genetic studies proves ANI and ASI mixing took much before 3000 years ago in entire India both in North and South India, relative to that origin of Southern Han Chinese people is extremely new, even Anglo-Saxons are older than Southern Hans.

Learn to argue based on facts, not reinventing history. Chinese had moved south since Qin and Han dynasty 2200 years ago.
And as late as Qing dynasty. The non-sinitic tribe of ancient time are today's minority group known as Zhuang or Tai people...etc. There were inter-marriage, but majority were Han Chinese. This is proven by DNA. What do you mean sharing the same DNA is other thing? That is the most criterial thing!!!!!

ANI and ASI are genetically different people. And Aryan are genetically different from ANI and ASI.
I have not included, Scythian, greek, Tocharian, Persian and Turks into the mix yet. There is simply no basis for comparison with the homogenous Chinese. You civilization came from foreign invaders.

I know you are butthurt, but no matter how you lie and smear, you cannot change historical facts.

 

[INDIC]

Learn to argue based on facts, not reinventing history. Chinese had moved south since Qin and Han dynasty 2200 years ago.
And as late as Qing dynasty. The non-sinitic tribe of ancient time are today's minority group known as Zhuang or Tai people...etc. There were inter-marriage, but majority were Han Chinese. This is proven by DNA. What do you mean sharing the same DNA is other thing? That is the most criterial thing!!!!!

ANI and ASI are genetically different people. And Aryan are genetically different from ANI and ASI.
I have not included, Scythian, greek, Tocharian, Persian and Turks into the mix yet. There is simply no basis for comparison with the homogenous Chinese. You civilization came from foreign invaders.

I know you are butthurt, but no matter how you lie and smear, you cannot change historical facts.

Now this is called revisionism which you are famous for.

The Scythians, Greek, Tocharians, Persians and Turks were very small group who got assimilated in local Indian population adopting the Indian languages and nobody know who are their descendants unlike the non-Han majority of Southern China had to gave up their original culture and assimilated as Han Chinese by Northern Hans.