What's new

The analysis for the cause of rapes in subcontinent and it's solution

Long post so I edited the other parts out. If found this line interesting.
@RazorMC the line is a question which is asking the audience = men if they will marry such a woman?
What do you think? Shouldn't we marry someone who was subject to such pain and misery? Shouldn't we offer her our presence as a source of comfort? Doesn't she deserve someone who's love her and not lust after her?
My answer is YES OF COURSE BUT in reality such noble breed of men are rare because as our Indian posters here have presented...they are more interested in society (clubbing, premarital sex and what not) and blaming it (when it leads to crap) THAN to protect a woman BEFORE it goes to such a level....

Consensual and safe sex should not be a taboo like in our societies.
@samantk for people like you we have a few verses in the Quran...My favourite being:

Lakum deenukum Wa liya deen
which means
To you is your way of life, and to me is my way
 
Last edited by a moderator:
well, the simple reasons could be, we hide everything from the young kids....we act over protective but we keep global aspirations....we want sex but we don’t want legal brothels...we wear western outfits but we don’t have western mind-set...our people are sexually strived as they don’t get sex when they start producing the sperms...kid becomes a man at the age of 15 but he has to wait to experience the sex until he gets married somewhere around his 30ties...this is ridiculous…we need to revamp the social system if we are going to adopt globalization….we want our wife to work but if you look at your colleague with a bad intention, do expect the same for your wife….
 
Indians talking abt havin premarital sex and crap... can u tell me how many of u would be willing to marry a woman like tht?
 
@RazorMC the line is a question which is asking the audience = men if they will marry such a woman?

My answer is YES OF COURSE BUT in reality such noble breed of men are rare because as our Indian posters here have presented...they are more interested in society (clubbing, premarital sex and what not) and blaming it (when it leads to crap) THAN to protect a woman BEFORE it goes to such a level....

Protect a women, yes the concept is alluring. Every human should be protected from crimes but do all women want the kind of protection you are happy with is the question. A girl feels safe wearing a burkha but then a crazy man who wants to rape will pause, think no no she is wearing burkha so I should not rape her, what logic is that?

And many rape cases are clearly classified as not just about sexual attraction, it has more to do with asserting ones superiority. And that is the fault of religion and our societies.

Put them in a house and protect them, why put them in a cage and lock it!

And one has to wonder why people upon people sacrificed their lives to live free.

Would you like to marry someone who have slept with others?

Indians talking abt havin premarital sex and crap... can u tell me how many of u would be willing to marry a woman like tht?

If I really like her why not?

thats against the teachings of Islam .. No muslim would agree to that!

Lakum deenukum Wa liya deen :cheers:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If only everyone read what is written and understood it in the proper context., but it does not happen. A family living on paycheck to paycheck will have a very difficult time you know. Also, there are some studies that point that in ancient India Women had a better standing in the society, it started going down hill from the medieval period, so not sure what you were reffering to.
@samantk Do not expect Miracles of a law in a society that is corrupt where it throws out what it pleases (you talking about Consensual and safe sex but cry when crap happens...if you are bold enough to allow such craziness ....and many others which were mentioned then we have a proverb which says you reap what you sow) but think it is PAINFUL when a woman IS TRYING to protect herself from the same corrupt environment...

The society and all the religions (twisted) have given the liberty.
Liberty is also subjective at what YOU consider liberal and what others see it as.
I said premarital sex, you cannot expect a women to be happy if her husband cannot satisfy her in the area of basic instincts same goes the other way too. I will not desperately look for such open minded girl but indeed do not have any issues as such.
that is why divorce is allowed...Yet SAME SOCIETY sees DIVORCEE as bad...

The saree which was derived from the word sari meant a piece of cloth, it was a very very basic, much simpler and the most comfortable form compared to the present day.
AGAIN subjective...yet men passing always try to touch even the smallest parts available with the excuse they were easily available

When did feelings have points, it just feels awful. Why do you think I stare, is it how you think all are?
What did you mean by feelings have points? I ONLY no point staring your eyes out....why so defensive? It is not what I think...it is WHY DO YOU STARE!

You did not even give me a chance to say something and just put your seal of disapproval! Is this how things work for you, asking questions and not waiting for the answers?
this is a PUBLIC FORUM...you can object ANYTIME! Stop throwing ACCUSATIONS at will! I CLEARLY WROTE I KNOW...meaning me myself and I....not THAT YOU HAVE TO...

Now Now, she feels the agony because she feels that someone made her do something which is private to her
Dont you think so? Oh wait...where is mr. psychology? Read up on PSYCHOLOGY of a victim! it is more than physical...it is emotional and mental torture!

and secondly that he could over power her.
THAT only has meaning for guys not much for girls! Not sure who made you an expert about HOW WOMEN feel...But you have got not a single clue it seems!
Even in the west the walls of gender bias have not fallen completely, they are nowhere near perfect.
it is not only gender biasedness...it is that GENDER IS BIASED!

Does it mean that they have to dance around to show that they are fine and can move on? Every victim of a crime goes through a trauma(irrespective of the crime), a rape victim feels it more in our sub-continent because there is a stigma attached to it.
agree to a certain extent...BUT a rape victim feels it for life! SHE IS SCARRED for life unless she can find a way to heal and get her trusts boosted back up! What do you think images, WHAT IF scenarios wont haunt her? WHAT IF SHE HADNT GONE TO THE PARTY, WHAT IF SHE HAD NOT ACCEPTED THE DRINK, WHAT IF SHE HAD NOT WORN THAT DRESS.... at least if she is properly covered....some of these scenarios WOULD NOT be of her mental concern!

Maybe less pain
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If I really like her why not?

I have yet to see someone in real life who like a girl and want to marry her knowing that she has been with others.

Whatever you say, it's psyche of a normal man that he don't want to marry this kind for girl, nor he will like that her daughter/sister doing it. Anyway, exceptions are always there.
 
Since there has been a deluge of Rape threads on PDF , i think it is would be worthwhile to reflect upon the causes of Rape rather than indulging in mudslinging on that topic.

It would be a good beginning to start with the definition of Rape. Rape is defined as an act of compelling a person to have sexual intercourse by using Physical force and duress.Having stated that, there are considerable cultural differences as to which act would come under the definition of rape with marital rape being the most important point of divergence with age of consent, violation using digits and inanimate objects being another point which has considerable legal divergence.

The extent of problem

Internationally Rape instances per 10,0000 population varies between 0.1 in Egypt to 92.9 in lesotho with 4.9 as median in 2012. Compared to this India has a rate of 1.7.

un-police-reported-rape.jpg


But rape statistics need to be taken with a bucketload of salt as Rape is still most underreported crime globally and its reporting rate is based on to large extent on the legal protection provided to women in a legal system, attitude of society towards rape as to what extent society engages in victim blaming in case of rape and the attitude women have towards rape.In a patriarchal society, women have comparatively low power vis-a-vis males, even a grown up may not know the concept of consent and private and sexual space.This is one of the reason that Sweden has highest number of reported rapes in the world compared to that of highly patriarchal societies where women have oppressed status.Also certain jurisdiction criminalizes adultery which proves a dis-incentive to women when it comes to reporting of rapes as failing to prove a rape in court would open them to charges of adultery leading to their incarceration.

Another peculiarity about rapes is that most of the rapist are known to victim.Globally 96% of rapes are committed by people who are known to victims while only 4% are committed by strangers.The general perception is otherwise due to the phenomenon of availability heuristic due to those 4% having a wide reportage in media.

Global causes and cause specific to subcontinent

Rapes occur when there exist a power differential between Victim and perpetrator. The underlying cause of rape may be Sexual lust, frustration , compromised judgement or simple opportunism but in order for rape to occur, there need to exist a temporal power difference which may come from difference in physical strength, number, societal position or trusteeship. This is also the reason that rape has comparative high frequency in conflict zones,prisons and orphanages.

The study of underlying Psychological causes of rape could be given a multifacted treatment, each deriving it's root from a major school of Psychology.

1. Psychodynamic theory.

This school of thought was developed by sigmund freud and concerns itself with underlying psychological forces concerning human behavior.This theory could be applied to the problem of studying rapes in following manner.

a. Faulty development during Anal stage (1-2 years of age)

According to Psychodynamic theory, anal stage is important as it inculcate a sense of control and inability to fulfill developmental goals during this stage may lead to a person lacking in self control.(over-controlling is equally bad but does not concerns discussion).Eric Erickson defines this stage as the one in which an individual suffers an ego crisis between Autonomy Vs Shame and doubt.Successful negotiation of this stage results in a child who knows the difference between right and wrong and is willing to choose right most of the time.

The subcontinental specific problem that could be traced to this stage is the overindulgence in male child in subcontinent due to higher value attached to male child socially.This leads to a lot of males never negotiating this stage successfully and developing immature ego. Another important factor is maternal overindulgence in a male child which never allows an independent male psyche to emerge. This leads to a lot of males remaining mama's boy for life.

b.Lowering of Subconscious barriers in intoxicated state.

Psychodynamic theory postulates three levels of consciousness unconscious, pre conscious and conscious.

Unconscious is a reservoir of biological urges and material in this state cannot be recovered in conscious state. Preconscious contain those mental events that are not conscious but can be brought to consciousness with some effort it derives it's content from both conscious perception and unconscious. Conscious contain part of mental life which we are aware of.

The structure of personality of a person has a three layered structure containing ID,Ego and Super Ego.

Id, which is completely unconscious is a reservoir of Basic Instincts. It is based on Pleasure principle and is amoral.It blindly seeks to satisfy its impulses working on pleasure principle.

Super Ego is the ethical and moralistic province of personality and consist of all three forms of consciousness.It is guided by idealistic and morality principles as opposed to reality principle of Ego and Pleasure principle of ID.It has no contact with outside world and places a demand of perfection an an individual.

Ego has a contact with reality and takes decision on all three levels.It reconciles the blind claims placed by ID and Superego through demands of reality.

When a person is in intoxicated state, his defenses and ego integrity gets lower and impulses from subconscious becomes dominant and the person loses moral control.This could lead to alcohol and drug related crime of which rape is a subset.If a person has some unresolved unconscious conflicts ( he hates his mother, wife ,girlfriend or is simply a forced virgin ) it may result in the defense mechanism of projection in which he would project his frustration on his victim.(to understand it members can watch hostel II movie of Eli Roth)

2.Psycho-social and cultural theories.

The Psychosocial and cultural causes could be divide into following categories

a.Faulty socialization

The Rapist while growing up may have gone through faulty socialization pocess which may have resulted in inculcation in him, male chauvinistic values.

This process have play an important role in behavioral development as a lot of behaviors including aggression are learned.This was demonstrated by famous BOBO doll experiment performed by Bandura.

This process has very important role in developing a chauvinistic mindset in an individual.In an patriarchal society, a male is raised under the notion that he is more worth then a female. This belief when counters reality leads to an ego conflict which results in internal breakdown of Individual.This is the primary reason that violence towards female is very high in social transition zones which are in first stage of embracing egalitarian values as the internalized superiority complex of male face a reality test when confronted with a socially mobile female.

b. Bad child rearing practice.

Child rearing practices are very important in determining the personality of an individual. Baumrind divided parental styles on two continuum: Response and demand.

Parents who are demanding and responsive were termed authoritative,the ones unresponsive and demanding Authoritarian, those who were responsive and undemanding permissive and who were neither were neglectful.

Of these parenting styles, authoritative is considered to be best while others lead to some kind of conflict in an individual.

Those reared in authoritarian setting may take to repression of their instincts which may turn them into a monster when they have a chance to exploit others.

The ones who are permissive results in pampered and spoiled children having low self control.

While those who have been neglected could lead to a moral structure which is completely unhinged from society and may have inferiority complex if they attribute their neglect to themselves ( a loner) and an anarchist outlook if they attribute their neglect to external agency (lord Voldemort).

The subcontinent specific problem in this department is the pre-ponderence of authoritarian, neglect and permissive style.

c. Bad role models

In any patriarchal society, there is latent bias against female, even if there is not an overt one.This bias is reflected in form of bad role models which come in form of abusive husbands,Eve-teasing seniors and exploitative boss.These bad role models reinforce their outlook by providing vicarious reinforcement thus leading to a situation in which a male would consider disrespecting female as normal which would eventually lead to generalization on sexual front.

d.Low self esteem.

It is observed that most of the rapist have a low self esteem. Even rape committed by people in power are a result of Ego-damage and unresolved childhood conflicts which are a drag on their self esteem.

3. Classical and instrumental conditioning.

Behaviorism is a school of thought which was propounded by pavlov, watson and skinner. Its core philosophy is that of positivism which is dependent on measured attributes rather than descriptive analaysis.

It states that behaviors that are reinforced are retained while those which are not are discarded.

The relation that conditioning has with rape could be derived from the reinforcement that the eve-teaser which could be labelled as level 1 sexual offender gets from his group. also when parents do not censure bad behavior of male child, they are in a way contributing to rape epidemic.

What could be done to improve this Rape situation

The potential mitigating steps could be

1. Improving child rearing practices.

By improving child rearing practices, one could inculcate good values in a child which would be beneficial in overall development of child which would have reduced number of rapes as a by product

2. Enhancing punishment for rape.

The enhanced punishment for rape would act as deterrence but punishment of rape should always be less than that of murder and violent rape as equal punishment would be harmful for victim as it would give an incentive to rapist to kill the victim

3. A strong state
A strong state is required not only to enforce right of rape victim but also to enforce any kind of right.

4. Making mid-level bureaucracy sensitive to plight of victims.

5. Making women friendly laws which does not discriminates against them and ensuring women have equality before law.


On a concluding note, i would like to touch upon the issue of marital rape. While there could not be a second thought regarding the right a woman has in a marriage. Marriage does not abrogates the right that a woman has over her body and compelling her to sex could never be justified on that ground but regarding it being put in statue book as a punishable offence, Is it possible to reliably prosecute it? How would it be proven whether Sex was consensual or forced as in a marriage both parties are expected to have regular sex (theoretically).

What are your views on the issue.
@Dillinger @arp2041 @Ayush @ZYXW @Jade @janon @Ajaxpaul @godofwar @Guynextdoor2 @KRAIT @sandy_3126 @Joe Shearer @jbgt90 @Bang Galore @neehar @JohnSeb @samantk @kurup @Syama Ayas @RISING SUN @Talon @Alpha1 @Windjammer @muse @Oscar @nuclearpak @Cherokee @Icewolf @fateh71 @Koovie @baajey @BDforever @JonAsad @Icewolf @Lokiand any other member interested.

First of all, sir, bravo for posting this and raising an issue and another bravo for using social sciecne to illuminate it. I would like to point out a few things though, firstly, sir, I would propose that we not see this from a purely Psychoanalytic view. There is a reason for this, though personally I believe Psychoanalysis is extremely useful but for the average person and policy makers it's too condensed to understand. I propose using social constructionism instead.

Secondly, sir, we don't really need to focus on child-rearing, see, taking rape as an holistic phenomena prevalent in every society we must cater the feminist argument that rape is acutally falsely constructed in schema in masculinity (Nilan, 2008). As the influence of the peer-group (Kandel, 1996) exceeds that of the family it is entirely possible and indeed seen that well-raised children and perfectly sane people commit rape.

Rape is actually not seen as a crime, it is either misfortune or calamity. The society needs to see it from a woman's perspective rather than a male's perspective and we need to reinforce not just the anti-rape message into the male population but address the hypermasculine conquest-driven sexual schema of expressing sexuality.

Good effort, we need more such posts.

Regards.

http://www.newcastle.edu.au/Resourc...nd Development_Masculinities and Violence.pdf

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&UID=1996-05103-001
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have yet to see someone in real life who like a girl and want to marry her knowing that she has been with others.

Whatever you say, it's psyche of a normal man that he don't want to marry this kind for girl, nor he will like that her daughter/sister doing it. Anyway, exceptions are always there.

I don't know the context, sir, but I would like to point out that your basic premise that a NORMAL man wouldn't prefer a woman who's had pervious relationships is completely false. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) married Hazrat Khadija who had been married before and loved her so much that he did not even consider marrying during her life. Your point of view is very misogynist.
 
@samantk btw just wondering whats your solution for pediophilia? Ofcourse its not getting the child accustomed to 'LIBERAL' ideas... As soon as he is born
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Protect a women, yes the concept is alluring. Every human should be protected from crimes but do all women want the kind of protection you are happy with is the question. A girl feels safe wearing a burkha but then a crazy man who wants to rape will pause, think no no she is wearing burkha so I should not rape her, what logic is that?
@samantk already answered this...She will not have WHAT IF SCENARIOS....read post no. 98 it is made bold and in red
And many rape cases are clearly classified as not just about sexual attraction, it has more to do with asserting ones superiority. And that is the fault of religion and our societies.
but HOW a rapist chooses a victim is also out in the open....check that bit too..

Put them in a house and protect them, why put them in a cage and lock it!
again you swinging from extremes as ALWAYS...

And one has to wonder why people upon people sacrificed their lives to live free.
with freedom comes responsibilities!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@samantk im saying that being properly covered, she will attract less attention and will be less prone to rapes. Little uncomfort is better than the agony of rape

Sir, this argument is very good in its premise, however, it doesn't always work. Again I say it again, we need to look at rape from a woman's perspective. The reason that she's dressed so and so way is no excuse that is just like saying I wanted to murder him and he was just walking in front of me with no guards, would that be ok? No. Similarly, we cannot dictate what a woman should do to prevent rape, don't blame the victim, blame the perpetrator.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know the context, sir, but I would like to point out that your basic premise that a NORMAL man wouldn't prefer a woman who's had pervious relationships is completely false. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) married Hazrat Khadija who had been married before and loved her so much that he did not even consider marrying during her life. Your point of view is very misogynist.

Being a widow and involved in sexual relationships without marriage are altogether different things
 
Back
Top Bottom