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The analysis for the cause of rapes in subcontinent and it's solution

I don't know the context, sir, but I would like to point out that your basic premise that a NORMAL man wouldn't prefer a woman who's had pervious relationships is completely false. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) married Hazrat Khadija who had been married before and loved her so much that he did not even consider marrying during her life. Your point of view is very misogynist.
@jaibi there is divorcee then there is casual partners...learn the difference ....this coming from a psychology sounds a little too astonishing! EVEN if you do not know the PSYCHOLOGICAL differences between the two....there is a clear cut BEHAVIOURAL difference
 
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any link????????

With the development of secondary sexual characteristics by the age of 11 in girls, though it varies, and 12 in boys, feelings for intimacy and sexual functioning become a biological need and possibility.

@jaibi there is divorcee then there is casual partners...learn the difference ....this coming from a psychology sounds a little too astonishing! EVEN if you do not know the PSYCHOLOGICAL differences between the two....there is a clear cut BEHAVIOURAL difference
Like I said, I attacked the premise, not the case. 'Normal' man is OK being with a woman who's had had previous relationship.
 
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Sir, this argument is very good in its premise, however, it doesn't always work. Again I say it again, we need to look at rape from a woman's perspective. The reason that she's dressed so and so way is no excuse that is just like saying I wanted to murder him and he was just walking in front of me with no guards, would that be ok? No. Similarly, we cannot dictate what a woman should do to prevent rape, don't blame the victim, blame the perpetrator.

@jaibi well...lets see...can you please give me the psychological analysis of a rape victim who actually didnt take PRECAUTIONARY measures (which reminds me....even in the WEST if you do not take precaution about your visa expiring...you are held responsible) and that of another who did not...WHAT IF SCENARIOS - refer to post 98 ...
 
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Being a widow and involved in sexual relationships without marriage are altogether different things

True, sir, I admitted not knowing the exact context and I sought to examine your premise in the quoted reply that you gave.
 
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With the development of secondary sexual characteristics by the age of 11 in girls, though it varies, and 12 in boys, feelings for intimacy and sexual functioning become a biological need and possibility.
there is need and there is want....a need can easily be tackled...Everyone has the need to want to look glamorous because SOCIETY dictates it....yet NOT EVERYONE wastes their money on doing that as they have wants to cover....Likewise, A NORMAL woman at least I know I am normal, wants her husband to be a special person not like any other guy she knows....So tell me her psychology...when she tries to forget how she wanted that but because she bowed to her need is incapable of fulfilling her want...

Like I said, I attacked the premise, not the case. 'Normal' man is OK being with a woman who's had had previous relationship.
No idea what you are talking about....No Normal man will keep asking her stuff or comparing himself with the other guys...THAT is a NORMAL man, egoistic OR even worse, would be wondering if she is sincere or loyal...

Other than that...the stress of wanting to be better for her is not exactly healthy....
 
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@samantk Do not expect Miracles of a law in a society that is corrupt where it throws out what it pleases (you talking about Consensual and safe sex but cry when crap happens...if you are bold enough to allow such craziness ....and many others which were mentioned then we have a proverb which says you reap what you sow) but think it is PAINFUL when a woman IS TRYING to protect herself from the same corrupt environment...

Who cried about what? About the rape incidents increasing? Yes, I feel a lot of pain, the pain again induced by our unjust society where a women is the biggest victim of this crime. If our society was not set out to differentiate between a man and a women so much that women should be treated as a goat this problem of men asserting themselves to satisfy the deep ingrained imagination of being "the man" would not have come.

Liberty is also subjective at what YOU consider liberal and what others see it as.
that is why divorce is allowed...Yet SAME SOCIETY sees DIVORCEE as bad...

Yes and I have been blaming the society and the religion they adopt.
AGAIN subjective...yet men passing always try to touch even the smallest parts available with the excuse they were easily available

I have never done that in my whole life and miss I can assure you that I have many good friends who I can stand for. Also, I have also seen some do that.
What did you mean by feelings have points? I ONLY no point staring your eyes out....why so defensive? It is not what I think...it is WHY DO YOU STARE!

Thats what I asked, why do you think I have to stare to understand a situation? 45 C heat and burkha, so what is so confusing here that I have to stare and rub my eyes?

this is a PUBLIC FORUM...you can object ANYTIME! Stop throwing ACCUSATIONS at will! I CLEARLY WROTE I KNOW...meaning me myself and I....not THAT YOU HAVE TO...

That is what I meant by putting "your seal of disapproval", "your" meaning yourself. You asked me a question and dint wait for it to be answered, why ask?

Dont you think so? Oh wait...where is mr. psychology? Read up on PSYCHOLOGY of a victim! it is more than physical...it is emotional and mental torture!

I did not understand what you mean,a s I said in my last statement in the same post, the psychology is of a victim of any crime more for our women because there is the added stigma you yourself have amply highlighted. A, No one will marry that girl. B, She will always be looked down upon.
THAT only has meaning for guys not much for girls! Not sure who made you an expert about HOW WOMEN feel...But you have got not a single clue it seems! it is not only gender biasedness...it is that GENDER IS BIASED!
Im no expert but there is a analogy I can present. If you get mugged by a thief on the road, what emotions will you have? I will feel that some guy overpowering me into doing what he wants. You tell me what would a girl feel?

agree to a certain extent...BUT a rape victim feels it for life! SHE IS SCARRED for life unless she can find a way to heal and get her trusts boosted back up! What do you think images, WHAT IF scenarios wont haunt her? WHAT IF SHE HADNT GONE TO THE PARTY, WHAT IF SHE HAD NOT ACCEPTED THE DRINK, WHAT IF SHE HAD NOT WORN THAT DRESS.... at least if she is properly covered....some of these scenarios WOULD NOT be of her mental concern!

Maybe less pain

Actually, If I were to imagine such a scenario I would be in much more pain. I would feel that despite trying to do everything to prevent a rape (Which as I said is mostly about the man's ego rather than the urge to have sex)... I still ended up getting raped, was all the trouble worth it?!
 
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Since there has been a deluge of Rape threads on PDF , i think it is would be worthwhile to reflect upon the causes of Rape rather than indulging in mudslinging on that topic.

It would be a good beginning to start with the definition of Rape. Rape is defined as an act of compelling a person to have sexual intercourse by using Physical force and duress.Having stated that, there are considerable cultural differences as to which act would come under the definition of rape with marital rape being the most important point of divergence with age of consent, violation using digits and inanimate objects being another point which has considerable legal divergence.

The extent of problem

Internationally Rape instances per 10,0000 population varies between 0.1 in Egypt to 92.9 in lesotho with 4.9 as median in 2012. Compared to this India has a rate of 1.7.

un-police-reported-rape.jpg


But rape statistics need to be taken with a bucketload of salt as Rape is still most underreported crime globally and its reporting rate is based on to large extent on the legal protection provided to women in a legal system, attitude of society towards rape as to what extent society engages in victim blaming in case of rape and the attitude women have towards rape.In a patriarchal society, women have comparatively low power vis-a-vis males, even a grown up may not know the concept of consent and private and sexual space.This is one of the reason that Sweden has highest number of reported rapes in the world compared to that of highly patriarchal societies where women have oppressed status.Also certain jurisdiction criminalizes adultery which proves a dis-incentive to women when it comes to reporting of rapes as failing to prove a rape in court would open them to charges of adultery leading to their incarceration.

Another peculiarity about rapes is that most of the rapist are known to victim.Globally 96% of rapes are committed by people who are known to victims while only 4% are committed by strangers.The general perception is otherwise due to the phenomenon of availability heuristic due to those 4% having a wide reportage in media.

Global causes and cause specific to subcontinent

Rapes occur when there exist a power differential between Victim and perpetrator. The underlying cause of rape may be Sexual lust, frustration , compromised judgement or simple opportunism but in order for rape to occur, there need to exist a temporal power difference which may come from difference in physical strength, number, societal position or trusteeship. This is also the reason that rape has comparative high frequency in conflict zones,prisons and orphanages.

The study of underlying Psychological causes of rape could be given a multifacted treatment, each deriving it's root from a major school of Psychology.

1. Psychodynamic theory.

This school of thought was developed by sigmund freud and concerns itself with underlying psychological forces concerning human behavior.This theory could be applied to the problem of studying rapes in following manner.

a. Faulty development during Anal stage (1-2 years of age)

According to Psychodynamic theory, anal stage is important as it inculcate a sense of control and inability to fulfill developmental goals during this stage may lead to a person lacking in self control.(over-controlling is equally bad but does not concerns discussion).Eric Erickson defines this stage as the one in which an individual suffers an ego crisis between Autonomy Vs Shame and doubt.Successful negotiation of this stage results in a child who knows the difference between right and wrong and is willing to choose right most of the time.

The subcontinental specific problem that could be traced to this stage is the overindulgence in male child in subcontinent due to higher value attached to male child socially.This leads to a lot of males never negotiating this stage successfully and developing immature ego. Another important factor is maternal overindulgence in a male child which never allows an independent male psyche to emerge. This leads to a lot of males remaining mama's boy for life.

b.Lowering of Subconscious barriers in intoxicated state.

Psychodynamic theory postulates three levels of consciousness unconscious, pre conscious and conscious.

Unconscious is a reservoir of biological urges and material in this state cannot be recovered in conscious state. Preconscious contain those mental events that are not conscious but can be brought to consciousness with some effort it derives it's content from both conscious perception and unconscious. Conscious contain part of mental life which we are aware of.

The structure of personality of a person has a three layered structure containing ID,Ego and Super Ego.

Id, which is completely unconscious is a reservoir of Basic Instincts. It is based on Pleasure principle and is amoral.It blindly seeks to satisfy its impulses working on pleasure principle.

Super Ego is the ethical and moralistic province of personality and consist of all three forms of consciousness.It is guided by idealistic and morality principles as opposed to reality principle of Ego and Pleasure principle of ID.It has no contact with outside world and places a demand of perfection an an individual.

Ego has a contact with reality and takes decision on all three levels.It reconciles the blind claims placed by ID and Superego through demands of reality.

When a person is in intoxicated state, his defenses and ego integrity gets lower and impulses from subconscious becomes dominant and the person loses moral control.This could lead to alcohol and drug related crime of which rape is a subset.If a person has some unresolved unconscious conflicts ( he hates his mother, wife ,girlfriend or is simply a forced virgin ) it may result in the defense mechanism of projection in which he would project his frustration on his victim.(to understand it members can watch hostel II movie of Eli Roth)

2.Psycho-social and cultural theories.

The Psychosocial and cultural causes could be divide into following categories

a.Faulty socialization

The Rapist while growing up may have gone through faulty socialization pocess which may have resulted in inculcation in him, male chauvinistic values.

This process have play an important role in behavioral development as a lot of behaviors including aggression are learned.This was demonstrated by famous BOBO doll experiment performed by Bandura.

This process has very important role in developing a chauvinistic mindset in an individual.In an patriarchal society, a male is raised under the notion that he is more worth then a female. This belief when counters reality leads to an ego conflict which results in internal breakdown of Individual.This is the primary reason that violence towards female is very high in social transition zones which are in first stage of embracing egalitarian values as the internalized superiority complex of male face a reality test when confronted with a socially mobile female.

b. Bad child rearing practice.

Child rearing practices are very important in determining the personality of an individual. Baumrind divided parental styles on two continuum: Response and demand.

Parents who are demanding and responsive were termed authoritative,the ones unresponsive and demanding Authoritarian, those who were responsive and undemanding permissive and who were neither were neglectful.

Of these parenting styles, authoritative is considered to be best while others lead to some kind of conflict in an individual.

Those reared in authoritarian setting may take to repression of their instincts which may turn them into a monster when they have a chance to exploit others.

The ones who are permissive results in pampered and spoiled children having low self control.

While those who have been neglected could lead to a moral structure which is completely unhinged from society and may have inferiority complex if they attribute their neglect to themselves ( a loner) and an anarchist outlook if they attribute their neglect to external agency (lord Voldemort).

The subcontinent specific problem in this department is the pre-ponderence of authoritarian, neglect and permissive style.

c. Bad role models

In any patriarchal society, there is latent bias against female, even if there is not an overt one.This bias is reflected in form of bad role models which come in form of abusive husbands,Eve-teasing seniors and exploitative boss.These bad role models reinforce their outlook by providing vicarious reinforcement thus leading to a situation in which a male would consider disrespecting female as normal which would eventually lead to generalization on sexual front.

d.Low self esteem.

It is observed that most of the rapist have a low self esteem. Even rape committed by people in power are a result of Ego-damage and unresolved childhood conflicts which are a drag on their self esteem.

3. Classical and instrumental conditioning.

Behaviorism is a school of thought which was propounded by pavlov, watson and skinner. Its core philosophy is that of positivism which is dependent on measured attributes rather than descriptive analaysis.

It states that behaviors that are reinforced are retained while those which are not are discarded.

The relation that conditioning has with rape could be derived from the reinforcement that the eve-teaser which could be labelled as level 1 sexual offender gets from his group. also when parents do not censure bad behavior of male child, they are in a way contributing to rape epidemic.

What could be done to improve this Rape situation

The potential mitigating steps could be

1. Improving child rearing practices.

By improving child rearing practices, one could inculcate good values in a child which would be beneficial in overall development of child which would have reduced number of rapes as a by product

2. Enhancing punishment for rape.

The enhanced punishment for rape would act as deterrence but punishment of rape should always be less than that of murder and violent rape as equal punishment would be harmful for victim as it would give an incentive to rapist to kill the victim

3. A strong state
A strong state is required not only to enforce right of rape victim but also to enforce any kind of right.

4. Making mid-level bureaucracy sensitive to plight of victims.

5. Making women friendly laws which does not discriminates against them and ensuring women have equality before law.


On a concluding note, i would like to touch upon the issue of marital rape. While there could not be a second thought regarding the right a woman has in a marriage. Marriage does not abrogates the right that a woman has over her body and compelling her to sex could never be justified on that ground but regarding it being put in statue book as a punishable offence, Is it possible to reliably prosecute it? How would it be proven whether Sex was consensual or forced as in a marriage both parties are expected to have regular sex (theoretically).

What are your views on the issue.
@Dillinger @arp2041 @Ayush @ZYXW @Jade @janon @Ajaxpaul @godofwar @Guynextdoor2 @KRAIT @sandy_3126 @Joe Shearer @jbgt90 @Bang Galore @neehar @JohnSeb @samantk @kurup @Syama Ayas @RISING SUN @Talon @Alpha1 @Windjammer @muse @Oscar @nuclearpak @Cherokee @Icewolf @fateh71 @Koovie @baajey @BDforever @JonAsad @Icewolf @Lokiand any other member interested.

There r more credible sources then this indexmundi.com's chart u know!!!!!
and this chart seems very old as the country that it mentions with just 1.7 rate is now called rape capital of world by its own media.
 
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@jaibi well...lets see...can you please give me the psychological analysis of a rape victim who actually didnt take PRECAUTIONARY measures (which reminds me....even in the WEST if you do not take precaution about your visa expiring...you are held responsible) and that of another who did not...WHAT IF SCENARIOS - refer to post 98 ...

See, Talon, firstly, most rape cases are of not unknown assailants, it is of people that you know. I worked at Fountain House, Lahore, with rape victims and I learnt of this phenomena. Being in Hijab, being in Shalwar Kameez, being in anything didn't save the women from being raped. Precautionary measures which you are saying are not of what you think, see, if in a rape scenario one tries to oppose or negotiate with the attacker it will entice him more, especially the forensic cases (serial rapists, they feed off this dynamic of being in power and seeing its manifestations). Precautionary measures according to the victims are diverse such as some rape victims wanted to have a gun others wanted to have another man with them and so on. I basically attacked rape as a phenomena itself taking marital and courtship rape into the equation.

Learning from forensic cases it seems that precautionary measures are of actively disarming the male attacker, most of them don't go off on a random victim but sour and target specific cases and work on cues. Rapists often say 'she was asking for it' and by it they mean that they recieved physical cues which vary from being too close to them, moving so and so body part, looking at them and so on.

I really didn't get the point of your visa metaphor, sorry.
 
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there is need and there is want....a need can easily be tackled...Everyone has the need to want to look glamorous because SOCIETY dictates it....yet NOT EVERYONE wastes their money on doing that as they have wants to cover....Likewise, A NORMAL woman at least I know I am normal, wants her husband to be a special person not like any other guy she knows....So tell me her psychology...when she tries to forget how she wanted that but because she bowed to her need is incapable of fulfilling her want...


No idea what you are talking about....No Normal man will keep asking her stuff or comparing himself with the other guys...THAT is a NORMAL man, egoistic OR even worse, would be wondering if she is sincere or loyal...

Other than that...the stress of wanting to be better for her is not exactly healthy....

You mistake a biological need with preference. You get hungry, that's a need, you want burgers or parathas, that preference. Sex is the one of the two most basic needs of humans (other being hunger). The human brain is designed to be attuned to sexual expression and need for intimacy; how that plays out exactly is socially determined. A normal woman would want a good husband yes but even she would fantasise about men and sex. If you are in Pakistan please see what Hysteria does to people, that is the most prevalent disorder here and it stems from suppression of sexual impulse (Psychoanalysis). The clinical population stems out of the normal population, I placed normal in inverted commas for a reason.

No idea what you are talking about....No Normal man will keep asking her stuff or comparing himself with the other guys...THAT is a NORMAL man, egoistic OR even worse, would be wondering if she is sincere or loyal...

Other than that...the stress of wanting to be better for her is not exactly healthy....

You don't seem to follow what I said. In sustained relationships, there is no comparison nor a competition.

.... Rape is Crime and it happens in whole world but more where poverty , illiteracy , religious fanatics are more .

Agreed, sir.
 
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Who cried about what? About the rape incidents increasing? Yes, I feel a lot of pain, the pain again induced by our unjust society where a women is the biggest victim of this crime. If our society was not set out to differentiate between a man and a women so much that women should be treated as a goat this problem of men asserting themselves to satisfy the deep ingrained imagination of being "the man" would not have come.
@samantk I am not sure if you are AWARE...few posts back you were asking the same society to allow FREEDOM for premarital sex and whatnot....

Also, I have also seen some do that.
and they are the ones I was talking about...Not sure why you keep dragging yourself into places you are not...If you didnt do it...then fine...I did not point at you...I said SOME DO IT!

Thats what I asked, why do you think I have to stare to understand a situation? 45 C heat and burkha, so what is so confusing here that I have to stare and rub my eyes?
my ONLY question was why are you staring when clearly she doesnt want to be stared otherwise she wouldnt be covered! Which part was too difficult to understand?


That is what I meant by putting "your seal of disapproval", "your" meaning yourself. You asked me a question and dint wait for it to be answered, why ask?
You NOT BEING A GIRL have been throwing stuff about how a girl feels and how you feel pain when MANY do not share your idea...YOU PUT THE SEAL on ALOT here...I just reciprocated it! Feels good know to try show what YOU DONT KNOW of the opposite gender by throwing assumptions based on YOUR wants!


I did not understand what you mean,a s I said in my last statement in the same post, the psychology is of a victim of any crime more for our women because there is the added stigma you yourself have amply highlighted. A, No one will marry that girl. B, She will always be looked down upon.
Both A and B are by society ...I also put her psychology ....which maybe you missed...

Im no expert but there is a analogy I can present. If you get mugged by a thief on the road, what emotions will you have? I will feel that some guy overpowering me into doing what he wants. You tell me what would a girl feel?
that is not overpowering and mugging is not the same as something happening TO THE SELF....are you soo materialistic that you find a material and woman the same?

Actually, If I were to imagine such a scenario I would be in much more pain. I would feel that despite trying to do everything to prevent a rape (Which as I said is mostly about the man's ego rather than the urge to have sex)... I still ended up getting raped, was all the trouble worth it?!

Maybe as a guy....The What if scenario haunts for longer than you would expect....Like if someone dies in a car crash ....what if i wasnt driving, what if i took a different root home....all these and many haunt for life!
 
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I have yet to see someone in real life who like a girl and want to marry her knowing that she has been with others.

Whatever you say, it's psyche of a normal man that he don't want to marry this kind for girl, nor he will like that her daughter/sister doing it. Anyway, exceptions are always there.

Normal is relative, in a jail all are normal and the guards are abnormal, so it works both ways.

I have seen many who will only care what she is to him now, not what she did before.


@samantk btw just wondering whats your solution for pediophilia? Ofcourse its not getting the child accustomed to 'LIBERAL' ideas... As soon as he is born

Those are really mentally sick guys man, I can't even imagine what is wrong with them!

@samantk already answered this...She will not have WHAT IF SCENARIOS....read post no. 98 it is made bold and in red

I cannot understand are you are saying what I 'm saying? That if the man has already made up his mind, neither a women in biking nor a women in burkha will matter?

but HOW a rapist chooses a victim is also out in the open....check that bit too..
You have to shed more light on this one.

again you swinging from extremes as ALWAYS...
Because the topic is not a normal one.

with freedom comes responsibilities!
Exactly, the perpetrator should have more responsibility because he is in the wrong.
 
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See, Talon, firstly, most rape cases are of not unknown assailants, it is of people that you know. I worked at Fountain House, Lahore, with rape victims and I learnt of this phenomena. Being in Hijab, being in Shalwar Kameez, being in anything didn't save the women from being raped. Precautionary measures which you are saying are not of what you think, see, if in a rape scenario one tries to oppose or negotiate with the attacker it will entice him more, especially the forensic cases (serial rapists, they feed off this dynamic of being in power and seeing its manifestations). Precautionary measures according to the victims are diverse such as some rape victims wanted to have a gun others wanted to have another man with them and so on. I basically attacked rape as a phenomena itself taking marital and courtship rape into the equation.

Learning from forensic cases it seems that precautionary measures are of actively disarming the male attacker, most of them don't go off on a random victim but sour and target specific cases and work on cues. Rapists often say 'she was asking for it' and by it they mean that they recieved physical cues which vary from being too close to them, moving so and so body part, looking at them and so on.

I really didn't get the point of your visa metaphor, sorry.
@jaibi you are not a psychologist? I am a girl, I know the psychology of NORMAL girls, and have read about rape victims...am surprised at your findings....physical cues however range from showing more skin to movement of silky long hair...agreed or not?
 
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@samantk I am not sure if you are AWARE...few posts back you were asking the same society to allow FREEDOM for premarital sex and whatnot....

and they are the ones I was talking about...Not sure why you keep dragging yourself into places you are not...If you didnt do it...then fine...I did not point at you...I said SOME DO IT!

my ONLY question was why are you staring when clearly she doesnt want to be stared otherwise she wouldnt be covered! Which part was too difficult to understand?


You NOT BEING A GIRL have been throwing stuff about how a girl feels and how you feel pain when MANY do not share your idea...YOU PUT THE SEAL on ALOT here...I just reciprocated it! Feels good know to try show what YOU DONT KNOW of the opposite gender by throwing assumptions based on YOUR wants!


Both A and B are by society ...I also put her psychology ....which maybe you missed...

that is not overpowering and mugging is not the same as something happening TO THE SELF....are you soo materialistic that you find a material and woman the same?



Maybe as a guy....The What if scenario haunts for longer than you would expect....Like if someone dies in a car crash ....what if i wasnt driving, what if i took a different root home....all these and many haunt for life!

I dragged myself in because all of us are placing each other as the point of reference, so have you. Secondly, I've worked in both the clinical and forensic setting.

I didn't say the stuff in the other quotes that are in your posts. Are those your points mixed with my posts?

@jaibi you are not a psychologist? I am a girl, I know the psychology of NORMAL girls, and have read about rape victims...am surprised at your findings....physical cues however range from showing more skin to movement of silky long hair...agreed or not?

Well, you've read about rape victims, I've worked with them. These are not my finding, mind you, these are research findings. No girl wants to be raped whether she's in Burka or not. Burka is a choice for Muslim women, not an anti-rape weapon, it has been claimed over and over again but there is no proof of that.
 
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Title should be change to 'The analysis for the cause of rapes in india and it's solution' , dont lump Pakistan together with india under the guise of 'subcontinent'

Wow.

Dont you think it happens in Pakistan?

It happens everywhere, absolutely everywhere.

Who does it? The uneducated? Not always. You can be educated and still be a freaking scum and commit such and heinous crime!

Brushing everything under the carpet which I have seen some of my fellow Pakistanis doing and then targetting India or commenting that India is worse is not helping the case. You must be really delusional.

Its a global problem which need to be taken care of and hopefully one day we can see a drastic fall of rapes. Thinking that it doesnt happen somewhere is pathetic.

I understand that for some its difficult to accept and thats also the reason why its not taken seriously.

May it be India, Pakistan, US, Germany, France, Norway, Bangladesh etc. It exists everywhere and its a problem everywhere!

Cant be lenient with rapists, we must set an example and show that we are not going to tolerate any such thing.
 
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