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The analysis for the cause of rapes in subcontinent and it's solution

How can you guarantee that she will not have situations?
its not always about bar, not always about pubs or dress.. You are being very very simplistic here.
There you go swinging between extremes is the word MODERATION a little too hard to grasp?

I never talked about guarantee...I talked about RESPONSIBILITY ON one's self...like the state has a responsibility to implement laws, the REST OF SOCIETY has responsibilities to behave...in fact the girl has a responsibility to ALSO GUARD herself otherwise she is just encouraging the guy....By dressing appropriately, with certain characteristics which enhance a woman is not putting her as suppressed but also putting her in her rightful place which is being a woman not a public object NOR a commodity!

I would like an inkling of what you think, cause I want to keep that in my mind. So could you share what's on your mind?
well, I do not have the time to tutor you through that...But I am a damn proud woman who walks with soo much confidence I was always a debater, a champion, outspoken and also an excellent presenter....

I walk in the western world with my hijab, my head held high...Not one feels pity for me...In fact 1 too many gori complement my confidence and MIND YOU I have seen too many gori girls pulling their extremely short clothes to cover themselves more just when they see me walk by...I do not wear designer clothes yet I see many of my colleagues copying how to cover up ...I am not sure if it is just a coincidence that soo many GIRLS agree that women should NOT be provocative as it is disgusting and well, I have heard my share to know enough about their mentality....

You wouldnt understand for 2 reasons:
1) Eastern people always want to fit in when they come to the West as for me I make them accept me, see my good points and in the end I have people wanting to be me....This level of confidence can only be achieved when YOU BELIEVE in yourself and have the SELF RESPECT of a princess!

2) You are a guy who has certain thinking of how a woman should be based on media...no based on women themselves....very few will confide in you! Trust me they may say 1 thing but do not actually mean it...
 
You misunderstood. You are being practical, according to eastern societies. My objection is against the social norms themselves. Why should a girls body be related to her 'IZZAT'.
Okkkk...what is IZZAT for you then?
Why are the words B*t*h and w*o*r* if thrown at your women (mum and sister) offensive? Just curious...Because one ONLY learns when their women are maligned otherwise someone else's daughter needs to be FREE


I have nothing against burqa, if a girl wants to wear it, go ahead and enjoy. But what is wrong is that she wears it out of social pressure - direct or indirect.
@Kloitra there are enough studies done with society telling people what to do....

Once upon a time a woman smoking was :astagh:, she going pubbing was :astagh: Now all is accepted....

Once upon a time a decent dress was covering up now we are going back in stone ages where men didnt cover up much...

We have forgotten WHY they did in the 1st place...

We have lost shame....talking about direct or indirect...

FASHION dictates how a woman should dress MEDIA dictates how a human should behave...there are pressures on every level!
@anonymus dude BIG POST...give me sometime to read...then I need to get back to work...
 
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Okkkk...what is IZZAT for you then?
Why are the words B*t*h and w*o*r* if thrown at your women (mum and sister) offensive? Just curious...Because one ONLY learns when their women are maligned otherwise someone else's daughter needs to be FREE



@Kloitra there are enough studies done with society telling people what to do....

Once upon a time a woman smoking was :astagh:, she going pubbing was :astagh: Now all is accepted....

Once upon a time a decent dress was covering up now we are going back in stone ages where men didnt cover up much...

We have forgotten WHY they did in the 1st place...

We have lost shame....talking about direct or indirect...

FASHION dictates how a woman should dress MEDIA dictates how a human should behave...there are pressures on every level!
@anonymus dude BIG POST...give me sometime to read...then I need to get back to work...

:suicide: :suicide:
 
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@samantk it is not really smart of you to throw me an analogy but if anyone else does they are overboard..but, I agree with what you have said....It differs from society...
When did I hint anything about being overboard? Frankly when you all started asking me will I marry someone who had sex before with someone else, I felt so bad that I wanted to ask if you guys consider women a thing of limited use and if I marry her I would be using it second hand. It was disgusting to even think about it, but I did not accuse you or @LoveIcon and @DESSERT FIGHTER of it. Now you say that Im trying to be smart here?

1 thing for sure women who proudly drape the hijab do not need you staring at them to feel their pain...they drape it so you do not stare at them and they can walk freely without getting conscious about anything...

I do not have a problem with a women who is proud to drape herself, my feelings are for those who tell me how inconvenient it is in summers (Hyderabadi Summers). And those are feelings, I do not believe in shoving my ideology into others throat, I did not even hint that anywhere. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I stare at them or not is not the issue, staring does not lead to rape. That is a complete wrong assumption. By your analogy if a girl stares at me, I should start wearing a burkha because I do not want to be stared at cause it leads to rape or I cannot move around freely (Again a result of imbalance in the society).

As for society....well, you cant accept a society to accept your open mindedness like pubs and all and then blame the same society for when rape happens...

You are firmly planted in your assertion that majority of these things lead to rapes, show me a statistic to prove your point, otherwise it just talk and your personal PoV.

Only if prevention matters have been taken, non provocative, good behaviour, good laws, IMPLEMENTATION of the laws, can you suggest your ideas to society until then no amount of debate is worthy of my time.

Prevention is good, why not carry a pepper spray?

Non-procative: How wearing a hijab is non provocating to a criminal with rape on his mind?

good behaviour: Wearing burkha and not having sex before marriage constitutes good behaviour? How so?

Good laws: One of the important things required to quell the criminals.

You are talking ONLY about yourself and your friends while I cover a broader scope....try using your open mind there!

How are you covering a broder scope and I am not? Try opening your mind here!

LASTLY, put your sister, mother, aunt, niece in a situation and then talk about women...Like I had said in my earlier posts....WHY ARE YOUR WOMEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHER WOMEN?

I have put all the women in my life through such situation and then talking here.

Because I know them and love them more than the others, dont you follow the same about your men?
 
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Talon,

i am not replying for whole post but only part of it as some points in this post has been discussed subsequently by samantk and zaibi.
Okkk...

1. Humans did not evolved for apes. They just had a common ancestor. From there they had gone their way in evolution we have gone our's.

2. Chimpanzees are not the starting point of evolution. The first organism to evolve was single celled and it evolved during Eo Archean period. The fossils of subsequent evolution relics are preserved in Australian stromatolites.

3. Reptilian brain is the term used for primitive brain, primitive in the sense of evolution. This is the part of brain which controls basic bodily functions and urges. Meddula oblongata and cerebellum belongs to this part along with some part of occipital lobe and central suculus. These part control bodily functions and urges and drives and is found in reptiles also. The later part is buily upon this foundation.

4. Frontal cortex is the part of brain in-charge of thinking process. It is the one which enables you to do planning, being creative and do algebra and the rest three are part of brsin responsible for linguistic capabilities
@anonymus thanks for the lesson on evolution...Mind you the term itself has evolved soo much it depends which point of view you wanna look at...We learn it in terms of Molecular biology where ALOT still hasnt been answered NOR is the theroy being held as a law anymore...because, mind you ALOT OF organisms have similar DNA because some PARTS OF THE DNA code for normal stuff like formation of limbs, formation of nose, formation of heart and so on....Furthermore, as little as a 1 basepair difference can result in the formation of a whole new protein and other factors such as environment, retrotransposons and what not are responsibile DNA to “evolve” Even in our own body, we get soo many changes esp by these transposones which jump around that the DNA we are born with, changes by the time we are 2 yrs old....So, dont tell me about apes and what not...I think I know enough about that theory :D

As far as primitive and whatnot goes, I am well aware of how evolution is drilled in BSc. Mind you unless you are heading for conversational biology or evolutionary biology, all those words have no meaning ....at least not at PhD level...

No, i am not bipolar. State needs to take action and society needs to make stricter laws but the type of laws is what i differ on.

Prohibitory laws never make sense as

1. They are derogatory to humans. They treat subjects like infants and state like a nanny state.
says who? You and OTHER FRUSTRATED souls? A rapist can say the same....That throwing his weight around should be allowed, whose gonna moderate that? What if the judge is also a man of such mantality....Such people do not have it written on their forhead you know....
2. When i ask state to make strict laws i meant that they should make strict punitive law. An example of that would be that you could drink but engage in hooliganism and you would serve an year in jail.
A jock would say you are trying to be his nanny...like you do not want the state to be yours...
Pretty much i am in partial consonance with Saudi philosophy of extreme punishments as it has been proven that punishments work only if they are extreme.
Agreed... PROVEN Criminals esp those who have proudly declared or in some way accepted their crime yet have no remorse should be called criminals though in the West they get better treatment then an everyday man!

3. Under prohibitory laws, people do get access to the prohibited substance by illegal means and usually the worst one gets primary access. An example would be on-going gun control debate in USA. A simple proposition which i think participants there ignore is that, irrespective of restrictions you place on guns,criminals are going to have access to guns.
Well, I do not want to go in to those esp considering where there are SHOPS WHICH sell guns....and then there are smuggled guns and EVERY NOW AND THEN, somehow military weapons end up in blackmarkets....alot is going on there under the table as well as on the table....so not a good example.

Basically, “prohibitory” laws are only applicable if the society isnt corrupt...ONLY prohibition one should put is on themselves...Slave of fashion, slave of drinking, smoking and what not is not exactly normal....You are willing to put prohibitions on SOME stuff yet not on the PERSON who is SUPPOSED to be responsible for THESE stuff?

4.We may be able to prevent some crimes using prohibition law, but any legal measure has to judged by the social benefit of the law. A law is not an Islanded entity. It is a harbinger of political philosophy a state follows. A law which places restriction of an individual is a sign of state which regulates thought process of individual. this leads to muffling of creative thought process and is in toto bad for society. An example of this would be anti-terror laws .They are highly effective but they do not justify the erosion of rights to public.
hmmm were they even the least bit of effective, it wouldn’t take years for even the smallest sign of hope to show....11 yrs and yet it is still chaotic!


Now this is an supremacist argument that i encounter a lot on this forum. Look around yourself and see as to how many things you are using have been invented in east.

Coming to basic science.

1.Did someone in East propounded laws of electro mechanism before maxwell

2. Motion before galileo

3. Relativity before laplace and einstien

4. Planetary motion before Keplar

5.Quantum mechanics

The only worthwhile contribution of east that has been build upon by west is in field of mathematics.

Some islanded contributions would never count as it was never part of eastern cultures to provide theoretical frameworks hence their inventions could not be developed upon.

Before saying all that you did...Understand what I WROTE
As far as ADVANCEMENT goes, West has only SUCCESSFULLY built up on OLD theories, laws, understanding...Nothing new

I am not an engineer nor do I have interest in Physics so can not talk about those...But I am talking about say Biology....

It is also proved that parents carrying a dead relationship is much worse than single parent as far as psyche of child is concerned.
Well, like I mentioned earlier divorce is an option...but SOCIETY thinks bad of divorcees...




Noe that is putting words in someone's mouth.The fact that i think it to be a socialist conspiracy would have made it clear that i am not in favor of state regulating private affairs.
ok... the state can also say, rape is between the victim and the rapist, PRIVATE AFFAIR...why ask state to pass judgement and punishment? Why select WHAT YOU want and discard WHAT YOU DO NOT WANT? Where is your swinging in extremes now?


But only fundamentalists have this as a default option. Have you heard of evangelical christians theory that if a women become pregnent during rape, she had enjoyed it and it is a just rape.In their view a women suffering rape could shut down her reproductive system.
1stly, it is NOT ONLY fundamentalists but NORMAL human behaviour, NO ONE wants to be 2nd...everyone wants to be 1st and only...FEW do not mind, BUT MAJORITY DO.

Do you also know how much noise was made against such a stupid remark?
 
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...in fact the girl has a responsibility to ALSO GUARD herself otherwise she is just encouraging the guy....By dressing appropriately, with certain characteristics which enhance a woman is not putting her as suppressed but also putting her in her rightful place which is being a woman not a public object NOR a commodity! .


I'm sure this works for you but no woman I know would agree with you and all of them would find such an attitude both regressive & primitive. Using common sense in dressing, where you go, at what time is par for the course but no one would agree that women have to dress in a a particular fashion or risk being attacked. I don't agree with your views either.
 
There you go swinging between extremes is the word MODERATION a little too hard to grasp?
Wearing Hijab and draping themselves in hot summer is not extreme :no:

Moderation, you define moderation for yourself and expect ever other to feel the same way.. I guess you are being very mypoic here.

I never talked about guarantee...I talked about RESPONSIBILITY ON one's self...like the state has a responsibility to implement laws, the REST OF SOCIETY has responsibilities to behave...in fact the girl has a responsibility to ALSO GUARD herself otherwise she is just encouraging the guy....By dressing appropriately, with certain characteristics which enhance a woman is not putting her as suppressed but also putting her in her rightful place which is being a woman not a public object NOR a commodity!

Obviously, the resposibilty of thinking about one's saftey should be paramount. But why are you relating wearing Burkha or behaving (is it constant for everyone?) and guard(Learn basic defence and use pepper spray) responsible for the majority of the rapes - bring me statistics. I heard this statement before and tried to reason but you stand unmoved. So the best way to break this deadlock is for you to prove that all these are the major reasons for rapes.

well, I do not have the time to tutor you through that...But I am a damn proud woman who walks with soo much confidence I was always a debater, a champion, outspoken and also an excellent presenter....

Good for you, but what i asked for is pointers ..

I walk in the western world with my hijab, my head held high...Not one feels pity for me...In fact 1 too many gori complement my confidence and MIND YOU I have seen too many gori girls pulling their extremely short clothes to cover themselves more just when they see me walk by...I do not wear designer clothes yet I see many of my colleagues copying how to cover up ...I am not sure if it is just a coincidence that soo many GIRLS agree that women should NOT be provocative as it is disgusting and well, I have heard my share to know enough about their mentality....

:lol: I had to, it was amusing.

You wouldnt understand for 2 reasons:
1) Eastern people always want to fit in when they come to the West as for me I make them accept me, see my good points and in the end I have people wanting to be me....This level of confidence can only be achieved when YOU BELIEVE in yourself and have the SELF RESPECT of a princess!

Everyone wants to fit in where they are, even by displaying your good points you are trying to fit it. Otherwise why show them the good points at all? You feel the need to be accepted, how comfortably is relative.
I will not understand that believing in yourself and having self respect only comes with wearing a Burkha. Its very funny that these things are related to burkha.

2) You are a guy who has certain thinking of how a woman should be based on media...no based on women themselves....very few will confide in you! Trust me they may say 1 thing but do not actually mean it...
Based on media? How outrageous of you to accuse me of this under the sun? Have you seen how my life has gone by, the incidents I have witnessed, the pain I have been through? Don't make this personal @Talon, keep it as a dicussion about the topic please.

Still all this does not explain
HOW a rapist chooses a victim is also out in the open....check that bit too..

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...ubcontinent-its-solution-8.html#ixzz2Qto9AJ4Q
 
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@Talon @samantk Is there something wrong with marrying someone who's not a virgin? Personal rule for me is to not even touch a virgin with a ten foot pole, they are boring people. What balderdash is this, "OH! Woe be me she/he slept with someone else before me, Alas! How shall I ever reconcile that with an individual's worth beyond the fact that a woman is more than her hymen or a man his manhood!"
 
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What the hell is 'subcontinent' ? Pakistan should NOT be viewed to be part of Indian subcontinent.
 
I'm sure this works for you but no woman I know would agree with you and all of them would find such an attitude both regressive & primitive. Using common sense in dressing, where you go, at what time is par for the course but no one would agree that women have to dress in a a particular fashion or risk being attacked. I don't agree with your views either.

dint read all these pages however, i believe culturally sensitivities should be kept in mind for own safety. having said that i dont endorss that particular dress can gurantee shield against crimes like rapes.

I saw that male's idiotic frustrated behaviour doesnt have any boundaries be it burqa or bikini
 
When did I hint anything about being overboard? Frankly when you all started asking me will I marry someone who had sex before with someone else, I felt so bad that I wanted to ask if you guys consider women a thing of limited use and if I marry her I would be using it second hand. It was disgusting to even think about it, but I did not accuse you or @LoveIcon and @DESSERT FIGHTER of it. Now you say that Im trying to be smart here?
@samantk Nope none of us think of a woman as a thing but we are very much down to earth and talking about reality not about being in the clouds...
I do not have a problem with a women who is proud to drape herself, my feelings are for those who tell me how inconvenient it is in summers (Hyderabadi Summers). And those are feelings, I do not believe in shoving my ideology into others throat, I did not even hint that anywhere. Stop putting words in my mouth.
dont be frustrated. I did not put my words in your mouth...I am talking about those women who are proud of what they wear and then there are women like you who do not understand why they wear it but blame society....2 different groups...I advice you not to show pity to those who are proud and try asking those who complain to remove their burqa...foran yahin word aaiga : “THARKI” hopefully a slap or sandle or even public trying to get a piece of you :woot:...MANY such women complain as long as someone lends them an ear :P

I stare at them or not is not the issue, staring does not lead to rape. That is a complete wrong assumption. By your analogy if a girl stares at me, I should start wearing a burkha because I do not want to be stared at cause it leads to rape or I cannot move around freely (Again a result of imbalance in the society).
Now you are putting your words in my mouth...I said if they are wearing a burqa they DO NOT WANT to be stared at....had they wanted to be, they would not be wearing a COVERING to COVER themselves! Common sense :enjoy:
You are firmly planted in your assertion that majority of these things lead to rapes, show me a statistic to prove your point, otherwise it just talk and your personal PoV.
Do you understand when 1 says LEADS to or states is the beginning....not necessarily ALWAYS...but it is a factor....Go talk to rape victims, how many of them were either coming home from a pub, got picked up at the pub, dissapeared while with friends near a pub or in a drunken state and many more FACTORS....few have other reasons....do your research...
Prevention is good, why not carry a pepper spray?
What is soo difficult in covering up? :pop: why against it?
Non-procative: How wearing a hijab is non provocating to a criminal with rape on his mind?
Dont act naive...A man gets arosed due to a number of factors, 1 is seeing MORE THAN NECESSARY SKIN or silky flowing hair.....you are talking about a serial rapist or whatnot, a mad man...I am talking about those points in the 1st post....like frustration, rejection or 1 time rapist or people who force a random woman in a drunk state or a woman who has rejected them at the pub....
good behaviour: Wearing burkha and not having sex before marriage constitutes good behaviour? How so?
Ok...soo now I have to give you a lesson on good behaviour...this is soooo trolling!
How are you covering a broder scope and I am not? Try opening your mind here!
coz all you talk about is a rapist who has done such a crime more frequently than one who just does it coz he was provoked on the street....using the points in post no.1
I have put all the women in my life through such situation and then talking here.
good to know and really surprising though....
Because I know them and love them more than the others, dont you follow the same about your men?
What do you mean? :unsure:
 
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What the hell is 'subcontinent' ? It shouldn't reflect Pakistan to be part of Indian subcontinent.

Sub-continent in terms of recent incidents = India+Pakistan

:) since mention of only one country is going to touch weak nerves of some.
and many of them will cry rape threads are banned
 
What the hell is 'subcontinent' ? Pakistan should NOT be viewed to be part of Indian subcontinent.

it is a part of the Indian subcontinent. ..like it or not.
 
@Talon @samantk Is there something wrong with marrying someone who's not a virgin? Personal rule for me is to not even touch a virgin with a ten foot pole, they are boring people. What balderdash is this, "OH! Woe be me she/he slept with someone else before me, Alas! How shall I ever reconcile that with an individual's worth beyond the fact that a woman is more than her hymen or a man his manhood!"
@Dillinger to you are your beliefs and to me are mine....

I did not say that...I am a girl why on earth will I side such twisted mentality?
 
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@Talon @samantk Is there something wrong with marrying someone who's not a virgin? Personal rule for me is to not even touch a virgin with a ten foot pole, they are boring people. What balderdash is this, "OH! Woe be me she/he slept with someone else before me, Alas! How shall I ever reconcile that with an individual's worth beyond the fact that a woman is more than her hymen or a man his manhood!"

I'm flummoxed hearing such statements!
 
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