Terrorism, Shameless Religious Bigotry and Pakistani Mindset

[Sinnerman108]

You could have cared searching for his work yourself. Clearly you have no intention to do so for you are far too lazy and uncaring or hold your opinion steadfast.

Earlier works by author are listed below. Not all fall into the same category of social critique but some do. The author works for State Bank of Pakistan.

Chowk: Religion: Islam and Modern Times: Is There a Case For Reinterpretation?

Traitors and Reactionaries Pak Tea House

Chowk: Politics: Conspiracy Theories, Patriotism and Religion

Irrational patriotism, liberalism and nuclear arsenal – by Raza Habib Raja | Let Us Build Pakistan

Chowk: Politics: Evaluating Bhutto?s Legacy

Chowk: Society: Urban Middle Class?s Steady Descent Into Conservatism and Religious Right

Beyond state of denial: How blind hatred of United States is undermining our own interests | Let Us Build Pakistan

Chowk: Politics: Muttahida Qaumi Movement: The Lost Promise

Chowk: Current Affairs: Banning Face Book is Not the Answer

Chowk: Politics: Waiting in the Wings: How PML (N) Has Evolved

Chowk: Politics: The Rise Of Judicial Activism: Is Democracy Under Threat?

Chowk: Politics: Pakistan People?s Party and Urban Pakistan: Reasons for Erosion of Support

Oh, Sweet you ! ... this is almost amusing ....

Can you please tell me, which one of this moans and laments the death of thousands of MUSLIMS, and if he felt unmoved to write about that, what made him take to the key board now ?

Are you beginning to get to my argument here ?

 

[DaRk WaVe]

For those considering that deeming Ahmedis as non-Muslims is necessary and general perception about them

YouTube - Javed Ahmad Ghamidi - Stance on Ahmadiyya

Ghamidi of course is targeted by orthodox scholars who seek interpretations of Islamic jurisprudence as entirely and downright completely applicable for today and do not require re-visiting deem him to be misguided and he has his fair share of labels of kafir.

Plus this, i think this must be nail in coffin about discrimination that exists in Pakistan regarding declaring people Muslims & Kafirs
its time we develop a thick skin regarding religion & move on....

I hope words of Quaid-i-Azam are acceptable to people

Jinnah Considered Ahmadis Muslims​

As our anchors and TV channels commit national and logical suicide by referring to Ahmadi Mosques as “marakaz” and “Ibadgahs”, we must remind ourselves of the views of Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah who relied heavily on the Jamaat Ahmadiyya and its brilliant son Ch. Zafrulla Khan (whose younger brother was killed yesterday). Jinnah not only considered Ahmadis Muslims, but relied on them to provide the manpower and skilled intellectual force in his efforts on behalf of the Muslims of India. As a secular liberal Jinnah could not imagine how someone who considered himself Muslim could be called something else.

He said:

“I have been asked a disturbing question, as to who among the Muslims can be a member of the Muslim Conference. It has been asked with particular reference to the Qadianis. My reply is that, as far as the constitution of the All-India Muslim League is concerned, it stipulates that any Muslim, without distinction of creed or sect, can become a member, provided he accepts the views, policy and programme of the Muslim League, signs the form of membership and pays the subscription. I appeal to the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir not to raise sectarian questions, but instead to unite on one platform under one banner. In this lies the welfare of the Muslims. In this way, not only can Muslims make political and social progress effectively, but so can other communities, and so also can the state of Kashmir as a whole.”

“Mr. M. A. Sabir tried as hard as he could to persuade the Quaid-i-Azam to declare Qadianis as being out of the fold of Islam. But the Quaid-i-Azam stuck resolutely to his principle and kept on replying: `What right have I to declare a person non-Muslim, when he claims to be a Muslim’.​

(23rd May, 1944, Srinagar)

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/jinnah-considered-ahmadis-muslims/

 

[Kompromat]

Ahmadis were considered Muslims Before 1973 simple is that .

Quaid was not a religious Man himself.

 

[Sinnerman108]

^^^^^^^^^

Emo

Kindly, keep to what is being debated.
and if you think, we are all wasting time posting in vane, kindly do not just post some thing irrelevant, save your own time !

 

[Realist]

Quaid-i-Azam stuck resolutely to his principle and kept on replying: `What right have I to declare a person non-Muslim, when he claims to be a Muslim’.[/CENTER][/B]

That is a brilliant quote.

 

[T-Faz]

Ahmadis were considered Muslims Before 1973 simple is that .

So was Zia, he was an Ahmadi before 1973.

If anyone searches his British India military record, you will find that he listed himself as an Ahmadi, trust me on this one. Go ahead search the records and prove me wrong. This is my new conspiracy which is true.

Funny isn't it, how ironic that he himself stemmed from the same faith.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I hope a Pakistani source will be acceptable regarding drone strikes & this is a recent one....

The truth about drone attack fatalities

Three US researchers, Matthew Fricker, Avery Plaw, and Brian Glyn Williams have written a paper on US drone attacks in Fata. It contradicts the widely held view in the media and academia that the attacks lead to large-scale civilian casualties. Their paper titled ‘New Light on the Accuracy of the CIA’s Predator Drone Campaign in Pakistan’ will be published in the Sentinel, the magazine of the US Military Academy’s Combating Terrorism Centre.

The authors analysed media reports from a multitude of sources on the US drone strikes in Fata over the last 10 months and compared the coverage of each attack. Where the reported numbers of fatalities differed, the authors favoured the most detailed and updated accounts. Where questions remained, they favoured newspapers of record, always using the lowest plausible count of militants reported slain. All women and children under 13 were assumed to be civilian. In case it became impossible to determine whether a person killed was a militant or a civilian, they assigned that person to the category ‘unknown’. By systematically applying these simple rules to the available information, the authors concluded that as of April 1 this year, there have been a total of 127 confirmed CIA drone strikes in Fata, killing a total of 1,247 people. Of those killed only 44 (or 3.5 per cent) could be confirmed as civilians, while 963 (or 77.2 per cent) were reported to be militants or suspected militants.

The identities of the remaining 240 individuals who died in these strikes could not be ascertained, and consequently they were placed in the ‘unknown’ category. Even if every single victim placed in the ‘unknown’ category was assumed to be a civilian, the vast majority of fatalities would still be of militants. To be precise, the researchers arrived at a ratio of 3.4 militants for every civilian. The report is revealing because it leads to the conclusion that much of the reporting on these attacks in the Pakistani media and perception created among the general public as a result of such reporting is based on false assumptions — the main being that innocent civilians far outnumbered the militants who died as a result of the drone attacks.

Media reports say the attacks lead to large-scale civilian causalities and public opinion in Fata is against the attacks. The fact is that many understand that the attacks are needed to target the militants and that in most cases they manage to reach the intended target with great accuracy.

I have been questioning misleading reports about the drone strikes through my newspapers columns. But the misinformation continues to come out from both think tanks and media outlets. One recent example is a research report called ‘The Year of the Drone’ produced by a US think tank, called the New America Foundation. The report claims that 32 per cent of those who have died in drone attacks since 2004 have been innocent civilians. The report has been quoted extensively in the media often but is far from the truth, as the one that is to appear in the Sentinel clearly suggests. Furthermore, in a forthcoming research paper I intend to challenge and question the New America Foundation claim.

My hope is that this new report will caution researchers around the world against the ‘conventional wisdom’ that drone attacks lead to large-scale civilian casualties and instant anti-Americanism in Fata, and encourage them to interact directly with local people.

Published in the Express Tribune, May 28th, 2010.

The truth about drone attack fatalities – The Express Tribune

 

[T-Faz]

I do not know, why people do not reply to this story but let me repeat this again and I hope to get some responses.

Ahmadis were also very much Muslim when the Government of Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place in 1947 as a counterweight to Sikh claims to their holy sites in Pakistan. No less a person than Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Pakistan's founding father, had declared unequivocally on the Ahmadi issue that anyone who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim and that anyone who says otherwise is conspiring against the Muslim cause. It is little known that Jinnah was finally persuaded to return to India and lead the Muslim League by Mr. Ibrahim Dard, the Imam of the London Ahmaddiya Mosque in the 1930s. The future founder of Pakistan had gone to and prayed behind the Ahmaddiya mosque unaware that the country he was about to create in two decades would one day make such an act punishable under law. If he was to time travel into the future, he would probably abandon the whole Pakistan project altogether.

Every single act of persecution against Ahmadis is quite unjustifiably laid at the door of the idea of Pakistan. Unjustifiably because those at the fore front of the "Persecute Ahmadis movement" are the same people who bitterly opposed Pakistan and considered Jinnah as big a Kafir as they consider the Ahmadis.

(The writer is a lawyer and a participant in the lawyer's movement. He has asked to keep his identity secret for the fear of persecution.)

Chowk: Current Affairs: Restoring the Civil Rights of Ahmadis

Another irony, Jinnah was sent back to British India on the insistence of an Ahmadi.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Ahmadis were considered Muslims Before 1973 simple is that .

Quaid was not a religious Man himself.

so now lets declare Quiad a Kafir

ZAB did a great job in taking Mullahs to his side by executing this stunt of state defining who's Muslim & who's not the words of Quiad are perfect i.e.

'What right have I to declare a person non-Muslim, when he claims to be a Muslim’.

just replace I with we & Government

^^^^^^^^^

Emo

Kindly, keep to what is being debated.
and if you think, we are all wasting time posting in vane, kindly do not just post some thing irrelevant, save your own time !

I am sorry your Highness will take care next time, I beg for mercy

I never brought any Anti Islamic or sectarian discussion the article was taken in wrong sense from very first page

 

[Kompromat]

Non practicing Muslims are not Kafirs but those who defy the most important tenants of Islam ie Prophethood and Khatam e nabuah have no Place in it & its not me who is deciding it. It has been done before in Prophet's time against Muselema too.

Islam is not Christianity or Buddhism where you can choose what to believe .

Supporting Qadiyanis on what happened to them few days back and supporting Qadiyaniat are two different things , its pathetic that some so called well educated People support qadiyaniat even when they cant prove their claim.

 

[Maj. Gel. Tariq khan]

Or if my uncle were Hamid Gul? So kindly if you dont have any resource dont say that other too dont have. I said lac of intelligence resourse. Who dont have any so they think both TTP AND AFGAN TALIBAN same. And same theory for Molvis. And remember the top head molvis never said tha TTP ARE GUD. Same for sparkling way, sir in 80's their is not even Alqeada. Just afgan taliban.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&warned=True&client=mv-google&hl=en&v=fJb_V4zm-4Y&rl=yes see it...

 

[Kompromat]

So was Zia, he was an Ahmadi before 1973.

If anyone searches his British India military record, you will find that he listed himself as an Ahmadi, trust me on this one. Go ahead search the records and prove me wrong. This is my new conspiracy which is true.

Funny isn't it, how ironic that he himself stemmed from the same faith.

If you can post some Non ahmadi source on this issue please?

 

[T-Faz]

The first person to stand at the UN council and speak of the Palestinian cause was Sir Zafarullah Khan. This is what was written about him and the way he made Pakistan raise a few eye brows.

"For the first time the voice of Pakistan was heard in the counsels of the United Nations on a burning topic of world-wide significance when leader of this country's delegation, Chaudhry Zafarullah Khan, addressed the United Nations Palestine Committee at Lake Success on Tuesday. It was a telling speech which tore into shreds the specious pleas put forward by the advocates of the partition of Palestine. Chaudhry Zafarullah did not merely indulge in rhetoric when he described the partition plan as `physically and geographically a monstrosity', he proceeded to prove this by unassailable arguments. Answering the contention that the migration of more Jews into Palestine should be permitted because the Jewish displaced persons desired to go to that country, Pakistan's spokesman asked whether the Americans would consent to relax or abrogate their own immigration laws if displaced persons of various other nationalities desired to enter the United States and settle there? Would America, he further asked, agree to take in the five million displaced persons of the Punjab if they desired to leave the scene of their suffering and cross over to the United States. We have little doubt that the Arabs will rejoice to find the voice of Pakistan so powerfully raised in the United Nations in defence of their cause. The addition of the independent sovereign state of Pakistan to the comity of free Muslim peoples of the World is already beginning to have its effect on international affairs,"

An Ahmadi speaking for the first time for Palestinians, God forbid, the kafir stood up for those who suffer to this day because of the spineless arabs.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Supporting Qadiyanis on what happened to them few days back and supporting Qadiyaniat are two different things , its pathetic that some so called well educated People support qadiyaniat even when they cant prove their claim.

& its also pathetic that some people see everything from a lens of religion & always get worked up with the beliefs of others, they are very sensitive about their beliefs but are in no way tolerable to what others believe & unfortunately state machinery is using this sensitivity to score points & get people on its side & they are pretty much successful in doing so, some one has rightly said: Religion is regarded by the common people as true and by the rulers as useful

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I said lac of intelligence resourse. Who dont have any so they think both TTP AND AFGAN TALIBAN same. And same theory for Molvis. And remember the top head molvis never said tha TTP ARE GUD.

do you have more intelligence than rest of the intelligence agencies or ISI is fool to go after Top Quetta Shura Leaders(no conspiracy theories about this please)



those maulvis don't support them openly but they don't condemn them either e.g. JUI chief Maulna Fazullah Rehman