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Terrorism, Shameless Religious Bigotry and Pakistani Mindset

Did you spare the little time to clink on the link which is a column that mentions the research?

But I'll save you time

Paper is titled :- New Light on the Accuracy of the CIA’s Predator Drone Campaign in Pakistan
Authors:- Matthew Fricker, Avery Plaw, and Brian Glyn Williams
Published in :- Sentinel (June 2010 issue)

The June issue will be published online in the next couple of days. You can access it at Combating Terrorism Center This does not mean that I inherently agree with their findings, methods or views. I wanted to present to you a scientific study rather than urban jargon.


Sorry sir i did not click that so thats why i was asking and i smelled that you might be talking about Sentinel but i wanted to get it confirmed first and then reply you.


Bellow i am quoting something

"The magazine , the CTC Sentinel, was started in December 2007 as part of the effort to shore up morale among soldiers and support the civilian war lobby in the United States. It would not be surprising if the “researchers” cited were linked to U.S. military and intelligence agencies.

I would place about as much faith in these numbers as I would on findings, were they to exist, by “researchers” at the al Qaeda Militant Academy Counter Imperialism Centre, that claimed that of those killed on “9/11″ only 3.5 per cent could be confirmed as civilians, while 77.2 per cent were reported to be imperialists or suspected imperialists"




And oh i forgot to mention that Sentinel, is the magazine of the US Military Academy’s Combating Terrorism Centre (CTC).

Sir i think you were supporting their point of view thats why you posted that as proof.

But with involvement of US military this research can not be called neutral and scientific.

I want to bring a friend here who is from NWA and from the area of hardcore fighters he has relatives, the entire tribes there who can give you first hand reports of actual count of deaths and how many civilians die in each strike in waziristan.

So sir please you and others sitting in US atleast give some room to the people's information who are actually based in these targeted areas.
 
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please you and others sitting in US atleast give some room to the people's information who are actually based in these targeted areas.

The value of first-hand accounts is over estimated for in most of our cases, the first hand account is entirely polluted by views of other people. But that is a far big criticism on people who suffer from the strikes from an unmanned messiah of destruction from the skies. My heart bleeds for those who suffer because of the wrongs of others.

The need to analyze the effectiveness of a remote targeting technology demands considering its strategic objectives mostly but it has to consider the political, social and economic factors as well. For the US, the necessity to avoid the loss of life on their own side is very important as well. But it would be difficult to establish whether Pentagon would discontinue its policy of drone strikes if it is established that it has caused more collateral damage than it has possibly killed militants. Nevertheless, our publicx opposition to this policy does not hold much weight in their opinion for our state has allowed and supported it for so long that a demand for canceling it entirely won't matter to them. Our military supplies intelligence for these strikes and it is not unimaginable that we have used them to target known militants not reachable by foot soldiers easily (meaning that we knew the presence of a militant or training school, supplied intelligence and asked for its destruction). Our military is hand-in-hand with these policies.

The researchers aren't US military personnel and their research is based on independent reports. Let it be published and we can discuss discrepancies and falsification of information. Noone else has published an academic work earlier (newspapers aren't academic)

Brian Glyn Williams :- Associate Professor of Islamic History at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth

Avery Plaw :- Assistant Professor, Political Science Department, University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth

Matthew Fricker :- Seems like he's a grad student at UM Dartmouth

I cannot state that they never had a military career though.

The latter two have worked earlier on a similar paper. It was titled Sudden Justice?
Evaluating the U.S. Predator Campaign in Pakistan


It can be downloaded here :- http://www.allacademic.com/one/www/...nt&PHPSESSID=2faa65251f2af3ee199c1e1252def205

A cursory look suggest that they have dealt with the very very wast difference between the civilians/militant death between their findings and the ones reported by The News. I haven't had the time to read this paper, but will post my thoughts tomorrow.

Their conclusion is the following:-

The thrust of this paper has been that the Obama administration would be well-served to reconsider and reverse the acceleration and expansion of Predator drone campaign concentrated in the FATA, and concentrate on targeting the leaders of Al Qaeda and the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban. The first section showed that criticisms of the campaign as a whole were much exaggerated, especially in-so-far as it concentrated on senior leaders. The following six sections, however, offered reasons why the campaign should not be expanded to include low level Taliban fighters. Section II illustrated why such strikes would produce little impact by comparison with leadership strikes. Section III showed why expanding the range of targets is likely to prove counter-productive in terms of instigating increased international and local opposition. Section IV showed how the expanded campaign is likely to weaken to Pakistani civilian government while Section V demonstrates why that weakening is likely to undermine U.S. strategic objectives. Finally, Section VI indicated how the expanded campaign would interfere with other key strategic programs in the region. In short, while a focused campaign has been and will continue to be highly successful, the Obama administration should resist the temptation to massively intensify and expand the program, because the attacks will prove ineffective and the strategy massively counterproductive. It would be wisest to avoid a drone creep.


PS:- No sirs. I'm too young and too anti-colonial hangups for that. Perhaps, a janab or sahab would be sufficient if customs demand extensive courtesy :p
 
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Helo... Helo... Any one?.. Helo... Huh,
As i said 'look girl, emm.. Emo girl, if your parents or family member would die in drones attacks, you will take the revange. And ofcourse our goverment and people like you always take side American so, they target you.', so some people says that why they blast on MOSQUES, As I said the blast took out on MOSQUES are done by RAW, MOSSAD, CIA, MI6.. list go on.. And other says that what proves, oh its common scence, As i said before Terrorist are crazy but not mental, they can think, and they know if they attack on MOSQUES people opinion gose against them. It all done by agencies to inpopular real talibans. As we know blast just took and after just some second media strats blaming taliban. But what? They just dont confrm this, mean any of seniour taliban member didnt says that this blast carry out by them. So why media blame them? Coz they are feeded by BILLIONS OF US DOLLARS..
Remember TTP are those taliban who r founded and funded by these agencies after 9-11 to inpopular not just taliban and Muslims but to represent Islam as terrorist religon. They not exist before 9-11. The Afgan taliban who r just fighting in Afgan they dont done any blast yet on Pakistan. And Afgan taliban are those who founded by ISI in 1979. Some people says what is relation between the victom of drone attacks and why they target us not goverment?
Bcuz goverment have done their security managments. You all are free, go and hire some SSG comandos for your security no one stops you.. And what is relation between the victom of drone attacks, it is a whole report on Al jazeera, a kid victom of US AMRY operation in Afganistan boder (FATA area) say, in this operation his all family member died but more than this the few pages of Holy Quran is (shahed) burns. Thats why now he is ready and will blow out him self. So, the victom heart is burning to take revange.
 
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Yeah.... Americans do this for their security means, let take Iraq war, they put war on Iraq saying Iraq have mass weapon. Which still not found. Mean the war is meaning less? No no the OIL, CRUED OIL. Yeah, they, in new english says crued oil as mass weapon which they just found after war.. let take afgan war, they put war sayin Osama is their, is Osama found? Is he needle which cant be found in desert? Oh this is not all, let take now 9-11, 3 passanger aircraft is hijacked, they hijacked by the people living in caves of afganistan, greart! they dont know how to drive a boat they fly aircraft where they tranned? Then they hit patagon and world trade center.. Which is steal framed bulidings, their frame is enough strong to hold for a day after hits by missiles, but what happen they fall down just in half hour by hitting with a aircrafts? And what about World trade 7, people commonly know 2 buildings just fall down, no their is another building fall down World trade 7 without hit by any aircraft. Building just straght fall down what kind of physics is applied? If they hit by aircraft by only one side, so they must fall on that side banding but it not happed. And all this is happening in USA so called superpower having defence satellite having CIA intelligence. Having SAMs, what a total failiur. This could not happen in Sudan so how it could happen in USA? They kill muslims thosand time more than 9-11 causalties.
Calling terrorists but who are? See this.
http://(www) or (m).youtube.com/watch?gl=US&warned=True&client=mv-google&hl=en&v=5ArcMOkuoK0

http://(www) or (m).youtube.com/watch?gl=US&warned=True&client=mv-google&hl=en&v=fJb_V4zm-4Y&rl=yes

http://(www) or (m).youtube.com/watch?gl=US&warned=True&client=mv-google&hl=en&v=iEuJimaumW4&rl=yes

http://(www) or (m).youtube.com/watch?gl=US&warned=True&client=mv-google&hl=en&v=kzp_mnCAFOs

http://(www) or (m).youtube.com/watch?gl=US&warned=True&client=mv-google&hl=en&v=RkVZhWeAmLo&rl=yes

help those who help you to fine the truth jion
ae911truth.org
 
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Helo... Helo... Any one?.. Helo... Huh,
As i said 'look girl, emm.. Emo girl, if your parents or family member would die in drones attacks, you will take the revange. And ofcourse our goverment and people like you always take side American so, they target you.', so some people says that why they blast on MOSQUES, As I said the blast took out on MOSQUES are done by RAW, MOSSAD, CIA, MI6.. list go on.. And other says that what proves, oh its common scence, As i said before Terrorist are crazy but not mental, they can think, and they know if they attack on MOSQUES people opinion gose against them. It all done by agencies to inpopular real talibans. As we know blast just took and after just some second media strats blaming taliban. But what? They just dont confrm this, mean any of seniour taliban member didnt says that this blast carry out by them. So why media blame them? Coz they are feeded by BILLIONS OF US DOLLARS..
Remember TTP are those taliban who r founded and funded by these agencies after 9-11 to inpopular not just taliban and Muslims but to represent Islam as terrorist religon. They not exist before 9-11. The Afgan taliban who r just fighting in Afgan they dont done any blast yet on Pakistan. And Afgan taliban are those who founded by ISI in 1979. Some people says what is relation between the victom of drone attacks and why they target us not goverment?
Bcuz goverment have done their security managments. You all are free, go and hire some SSG comandos for your security no one stops you.. And what is relation between the victom of drone attacks, it is a whole report on Al jazeera, a kid victom of US AMRY operation in Afganistan boder (FATA area) say, in this operation his all family member died but more than this the few pages of Holy Quran is (shahed) burns. Thats why now he is ready and will blow out him self. So, the victom heart is burning to take revange.

Yeah.... Americans do this for their security means, let take Iraq war, they put war on Iraq saying Iraq have mass weapon. Which still not found. Mean the war is meaning less? No no the OIL, CRUED OIL. Yeah, they, in new english says crued oil as mass weapon which they just found after war.. let take afgan war, they put war sayin Osama is their, is Osama found? Is he needle which cant be found in desert? Oh this is not all, let take now 9-11, 3 passanger aircraft is hijacked, they hijacked by the people living in caves of afganistan, greart! they dont know how to drive a boat they fly aircraft where they tranned? Then they hit patagon and world trade center.. Which is steal framed bulidings, their frame is enough strong to hold for a day after hits by missiles, but what happen they fall down just in half hour by hitting with a aircrafts? And what about World trade 7, people commonly know 2 buildings just fall down, no their is another building fall down World trade 7 without hit by any aircraft. Building just straght fall down what kind of physics is applied? If they hit by aircraft by only one side, so they must fall on that side banding but it not happed. And all this is happening in USA so called superpower having defence satellite having CIA intelligence. Having SAMs, what a total failiur. This could not happen in Sudan so how it could happen in USA? They kill muslims thosand time more than 9-11 causalties.
Calling terrorists but who are? See this.

Summarization of thirty years of political, strategic and social history supplemented by a fair amount of conspiracy theories requires nothing more than :-

 
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For those considering that deeming Ahmedis as non-Muslims is necessary and general perception about them


Ghamidi of course is targeted by orthodox scholars who seek interpretations of Islamic jurisprudence as entirely and downright completely applicable for today and do not require re-visiting deem him to be misguided and he has his fair share of labels of kafir.
 
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you wrote a whole book criticizing,
did you read what i wrote ?
did you understand what i wrote, or did u choose to assume stuff,
if that is the case,
please do not be called a think tank. goes against the definition.

here read this again.


Can't you people understand and debate logically ?

and if you are hell bent on assuming stuff without understanding all of it, how are you any different from Taliban.

I would really seriously like you to answer my question.



Here I see a post with the comments:

Quote

I have no objection in condemning this act.

Unquote

To my simple mind it looks as if you are not 100% sure, but wouldn’t object if some one condemns it.

Quote

I will call it terrorism, and a crime.

Unquote.

Unprincipled savages go into two houses of worship, start spraying worshippers with bullets and kill 100 people who have committed no crime. You are graciously condescending in your majesty that you agree to call it terrorism and a crime? For heavens sake, what else should one call it?

Quote

My objection is to people like this "writer" who have come out to write now.

Unquote.

Please read Hon Sparkilngway’s post. Many authors and columnists have over the period of time condemned such action without reservation ever since this mayhem started. Only people who covertly sympathize with the Taliban who use excuses by giving example of Fox News, CNN etc to find an explanation for such out and out savagery. The tone of your post belies the bigotry that many people of Pakistan have towards minorities.

I am against senseless killing regardless if it is the Shias ( Momenpura in Lahore), Sunnis ( Sunni Tehreek) in Karachi, Ali Masjid in Landi Kotal, target killing of Pashtoons in Korangi or of Christians. As a Pakistani, I would condemn without reservation whosoever is responsible for killing any Pakistani without any rhyme or reason. As a Muslim, I consider shedding of any human being’s blood an abhorrent act; except by the State when he has been proven guilty of a grievous crime.

I expect that educated and rational people would also condemn any act of violence outright. However, thanks to the bigot Zia, a section of Pakistanis has been brainwashed into justifying the ‘unjustifiable’ if it is done in the name of Islam. Regret to say that some posts in this forum suggest quite a few honorable members hold similar views.

I ask again, how many innocent people need to be killed and how much more harm done to Islam and to Pakistan before you also start condemning all heinous acts without reservation of any if or buts? These people are enemies of Pakistan as well as of Islam. Taliban have given a very bad name to Islam the world over whereas Islam is a peaceful religion. Because of such killings, even Pakistani investors are taking their capital out, how would Pakistan prosper without law and order? We can't even get anyone to play cricket in Pakistan.

Don’t you ever want to see Pakistan a peaceful country? Or wait it to be destroyed completely before you let go the support of Taliban butchers? Because until such time that all sections of the soceity turn against terrorism without reservation; Pakistan will continue burning, as suicide bombers would continue getting succor in the society which enables them to go on shedding innocent blood.
 
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Yeah, you cant do any thing except this,
Why people just see the blast on Pakistan and put blame on Islam?
Why dont see other religion what they done and still doing, Hitler, wars of Iraq, Afgan, Plastine, cheychinya, Khasmir. So its mean all religons are terrorist?

Three points

1- The mostly stupid people on this web have lac of intelligence resources...
2- Most and all blast done in Pakistan is by TTP. Which founded and still funded by RAW,MOSSAD,CIA,MI6.. How i know? Some how from an intelligence resouse i get to know, after operation aganist TTP they found BILLIONS OF US DOLLAR, not only this, Indian origin gun powder, weapons that used by NATO, and wifi, gps devices made in Israel. If TTP is really working for Islam will these things given them by enemy of Islam? No and never.. The stucture of TTP i know yet is like this, The owners and head officer of TTP are connected to these intelligence agencies, the fighter are recurited by brainwash of those who are hunted of injustice and wanted to take revange like victom of drones attack. They mostly chose Pakistani, and their target to represent Islam and real talibans as terrorists. The real talibans are Afgan talibans they dont have any like with TTP. Their groups are mostly operated by Haqani network. The real talibans are still good and fight for their country.
3- If you justifly Islam as terrorists religion then we can too by examples of Hitler, wars of Iraq, Afgan, Plastine, cheychinya, Khasmir. So next time dont blame Islam emo baby..
 
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SPARKLINGWAY:

Firstly, they should be allowed to propagate their religion and in my opinion call it whatever they may want to call it.
sure let them call it what ever, just choose a new name, don't try to take our name, and then accuse us of having used it wrongly.

Will you blame me for being offended, when some one will come, take my religion's name and try and tell me, that what i believe is not correct ?

Secondly, if the "righteous" Muslims, belonging to the "true" sects are misguided by Ahmedis preachers, then at some point into their journey into Ahmeddiat, they will come across the existence of a Mehdi/Messiah status reserved for their founder and subsequent leaders. If a person believed to be a Muslim comes across this and still goes on with his conversion, then his basic beliefs were so weak that he should not have been called a Muslim before. Proclaiming that most Muslims are of weak faith and that is why it is necessary to protect them from Ahmedi preachers is a faulty argument for it relies on the conspiratorial mindset that accuses Ahmedis of being cunning and offering monetary incentive for conversion. If their preachers are cunning and able to convert easily and successfully, it can mean one of two things. (i) Mainstream sects need to learn new preaching methods for their own are a failure, and (2) that the mainstream sects are perhaps not true either for they fall "prey" to the teaching of the other "unrighteous"

the major force behind the movement which culminated in Mufti Mahmood's work, was that QADYANI should be recognized as unique, and different from MUSLIMs.

The driver for the movement was that a new sect is simply trying to use Islam's name for some thing which contradicts the basic principles of Islam.

It's kind of like brand name protection. Make your own product and name it differently. Don't market your product with my name.

If you can accuse the Taliban for high jacking Islam, why can't you apply the same principle here ?

Thirdly, the ability to convert non-Muslims is dependent on their ability to preach. If they are legally prohibited from preaching they cannot convert non-Muslims. Every faith should have equal right to preach. This argument is usually unacceptable to most on the basis that they deem their religion as the only true one and hence the supreme and consider that preaching others cannot be allowed for they are false religions. This is perfectly summarized in Zakir Naik's words:-

I totally agree with your assumption,Preach all you want, no problems with that.
however one must respect between preaching and cheating.
To the QADYANI -> call your self what ever new name X and your set of beliefs whatever , just don't call it what I call my religion.

To me, that is CHEATING and STEALING

Before you comment on my remarks I urge you to take a look at the # of "Peer" "Mureeds" already present. It is fairly simple and easy to deceive poor uneducated lot, who are by far kept away from information any way.



Now NIAZ

Here I see a post with the comments:

Quote

I will call it terrorism, and a crime.
.

Unprincipled savages go into two houses of worship, start spraying worshippers with bullets and kill 100 people who have committed no crime. You are graciously condescending in your majesty that you agree to call it terrorism and a crime? For heavens sake, what else should one call it?

and I called it terrorism, now must I cry a river ?

That is kind of like, Jews want every one to come cry for them, no one is allowed to question.

My objection is to people like this "writer" who have come out to write now.

*************

Please read Hon Sparkilngway’s post. Many authors and columnists have over the period of time condemned such action without reservation ever since this mayhem started. Only people who covertly sympathize with the Taliban who use excuses by giving example of Fox News, CNN etc to find an explanation for such out and out savagery. The tone of your post belies the bigotry that many people of Pakistan have towards minorities.

.

I am reading it all, and my beef is very simple.
All I want to know is , that the same writer who wrote that article;
Did he right the same way, when the majority population was being killed ?
If this is his first ever writing, then I have no problem.

If this is not his first writing, I would like to understand why couldn't he spend the same effort for the Majority Pakistani population, and what made him bite the bullet this time.


The writer can explain this , or any one ?
 
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Yeah, you cant do any thing except this,
Why people just see the blast on Pakistan and put blame on Islam?
Why dont see other religion what they done and still doing, Hitler, wars of Iraq, Afgan, Plastine, cheychinya, Khasmir. So its mean all religons are terrorist?

Three points

1- The mostly stupid people on this web have lac of intelligence resources...
2- Most and all blast done in Pakistan is by TTP. Which founded and still funded by RAW,MOSSAD,CIA,MI6.. How i know? Some how from an intelligence resouse i get to know, after operation aganist TTP they found BILLIONS OF US DOLLAR, not only this, Indian origin gun powder, weapons that used by NATO, and wifi, gps devices made in Israel. If TTP is really working for Islam will these things given them by enemy of Islam? No and never.. The stucture of TTP i know yet is like this, The owners and head officer of TTP are connected to these intelligence agencies, the fighter are recurited by brainwash of those who are hunted of injustice and wanted to take revange like victom of drones attack. They mostly chose Pakistani, and their target to represent Islam and real talibans as terrorists. The real talibans are Afgan talibans they dont have any like with TTP. Their groups are mostly operated by Haqani network. The real talibans are still good and fight for their country.
3- If you justifly Islam as terrorists religion then we can too by examples of Hitler, wars of Iraq, Afgan, Plastine, cheychinya, Khasmir. So next time dont blame Islam emo baby..

Result from your conclusions:

1. If you think taliban of Afghanistan are good taliban and fighting for independence and taliban in Pakistan are Indian agent, cia agents..etc agents....
My question is that P.Army is fighting with indian agent taliban in Pakistan, than whats a problem with molvis about that????

2. If TTP= India,CIA,Mossad agent

than TTP supporters /sympatheir must = India,CIA,Mosad agent

Therofore MOLVIS = Inidan ,CIA,Mosad agents

Now stop this double standard.
Stop blaming TTP Indian agent or stop supporting TTP and opposing PAKISTAN ARMY operation against them,else All TTP sympatheirs should must be declared india,CIA,Mosad agent.
 
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1- The mostly stupid people on this web have lac of intelligence resources...

How i know? Some how from an intelligence resouse i get to know

We bow before our "connected" overlord. Every Pakistani seems to be proud of his "connections" and every inside knowledge is known through the ever present uncles and "jananay wala"s. Still, go on..

2- Most and all blast done in Pakistan is by TTP. Which founded and still funded by RAW,MOSSAD,CIA,MI6.. How i know? Some how from an intelligence resouse i get to know, after operation aganist TTP they found BILLIONS OF US DOLLAR, not only this, Indian origin gun powder, weapons that used by NATO, and wifi, gps devices made in Israel.

Rejecting the internal problem and blaming "foreign hand" entirely is the easy and fallacious thing to do. It is our historical fault that has produced the monster, now we have to deal with it. It does not matter whose support produced it in the '80s or who provided the equipment then, what matters is that these monsters kill our citizens.

Our inability to establish the populist RAW/CIA/MOSSAD link can be attributed to two reasons:-

1) That there is no direct link and its merely a problem of denial

2) That we have failed to establish the link categorically and our evidences submitted to the international community are weak

Anybody is welcome to choose either.

Tactical and strategic support at some time or in some way cannot be denied, complete support and blaming everything on others is what mentally challenged people would do.

All terrorist organizations have historically relied on drug money and extortion to generate funds and our versions do the same as well.

This is 205 million USD. I wonder what Billions looks like stuffed inside caves

13.jpg


3- If you justifly Islam as terrorists religion then we can too by examples of Hitler, wars of Iraq, Afgan, Plastine, cheychinya, Khasmir. So next time dont blame Islam emo baby..

Clergy and Salafist ideologies cannot be absolved of their role.

As for the "he did wrong as well" method.

Person A commits crime. Person B commits crime. Person B cannot be let go because Person A also committed the crime or whether Person A didn't receive punishment.

Also morality and ethics aren't comparative.
 
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On drone attcks - can the objectives of drone attacks be achieved by ground operation with fewer civlian casualities?
 
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People who wont call the TTP or taliban butchers kafirs because they said the kalimah correctly, come out and call them Kafir first. They are the people who stole your brand name designer religion. Yes .. the same brand name religion that is making headlines everywhere. People with your way of thinking are becoming a threat worse than those butchers. Those kafirs can be called uneducated and indoctrinated, how the hell am i going to explain what happened to you.
 
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All I want to know is , that the same writer who wrote that article;
Did he right the same way, when the majority population was being killed ?
If this is his first ever writing, then I have no problem.

If this is not his first writing, I would like to understand why couldn't he spend the same effort for the Majority Pakistani population, and what made him bite the bullet this time.

You could have cared searching for his work yourself. Clearly you have no intention to do so for you are far too lazy and uncaring or hold your opinion steadfast.

Earlier works by author are listed below. Not all fall into the same category of social critique but some do. The author works for State Bank of Pakistan.

Chowk: Religion: Islam and Modern Times: Is There a Case For Reinterpretation?

Traitors and Reactionaries Pak Tea House

Chowk: Politics: Conspiracy Theories, Patriotism and Religion

Irrational patriotism, liberalism and nuclear arsenal – by Raza Habib Raja | Let Us Build Pakistan

Chowk: Politics: Evaluating Bhutto?s Legacy

Chowk: Society: Urban Middle Class?s Steady Descent Into Conservatism and Religious Right

Beyond state of denial: How blind hatred of United States is undermining our own interests | Let Us Build Pakistan

Chowk: Politics: Muttahida Qaumi Movement: The Lost Promise

Chowk: Current Affairs: Banning Face Book is Not the Answer

Chowk: Politics: Waiting in the Wings: How PML (N) Has Evolved

Chowk: Politics: The Rise Of Judicial Activism: Is Democracy Under Threat?

Chowk: Politics: Pakistan People?s Party and Urban Pakistan: Reasons for Erosion of Support
 
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