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Terror activities of Indian consulates in Afghanistan

Since this thread has degenerated into off-topic material, unless someone can summarize its concrete accomplishments we should conclude that the charge of "terror activities of Indian consulates in Afghanistan" has no base in fact, and thus the Indians are owed some sort of apology from Pakistanis for throwing out false charges: it's all just mass-media hysteria, another current example of poor judgment on the part of Pakistanis and their leadership.
 
Sir,

How could you prove your statements?

Pakistani security forces have caught diffrent terrorists which claimed that they recieved money & weapons from people working in those consulates.

just be realistic why they have put all those consulates on the Pak-Afghan border areas?

your statement isn't neutral as third party....poor judgment by your side i think.

what about your media then, you people also claimed many things which didn't exist!
 
Let grant that The Indian is just plain no damn good, that his consulates in Afghanistan nurtures mercenaries and terrorists, that a secret ingredient in his curry's is a anti-Pakistan spice -- happy?

OK, now exactly how does this solve or even help solve Pakistan's problems?

Some Pakistanis want the Indian black faced, OK, fair enough, Pakistanis have had their lunch handed to them, they have gone from failure to failure and blaming the Indian has an emotional appeal, unlike any other, to Pakistanis.

But how does this solve Pakistan's problems with extremist ideologies that compete for domination in the Pakistani society? How does it solve the dislike and suspicion ethnicities in Pakistan share of and about each other? how are Pakistan's economic problems any closer to solution?

Indian no dang good -- allright, but may be we could focus on problems on a priority basis - the Indian just isn't in the top 10 ten problems Pakistanis are confronted with.
 
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Sir,

How could you prove your statements? Pakistani security forces have caught diffrent terrorists which claimed -
Uh-uh. The terrorists didn't claim that, Pakistani security did, without providing evidence. In the current Pakistani environment, if you were an official with Pakistani security working on the terror problem, wouldn't it be a lot safer to attribute the project you are working on to nefarious Indians, rather than the Talibs who seem to have their fingers in everything? The lack of evidence to back up empty statements tells a great deal.

what about your media then, you people also claimed many things which didn't exist!
Do the misdeeds of any other country's media get Pakistan's off the hook?
 
Let grant that The Indian is just plain no damn good, that his consulates in Afghanistan nurtures mercenaries and terrorists, that a secret ingredient in his curry's is a anti-Pakistan spice -- happy? OK, now exactly how does this solve or even help solve Pakistan's problems?
If India was the source of the problem then naturally by getting India to stop its support then attacking India (or threatening to do so) would be useful. I recall Winston Churchill's evaluation of terrorist on English soil back in medieval times, something to the effect of, "but the poison came from over the Channel, so the English King attacked there."

However, the tell-tales of such support are pretty much absent. Where are the training camps, both military and ideological? Not in India, but in Pakistan, yes? Where are supplies coming from, India or Pakistan?

You get the picture. This whole "India-is-the-enemy" thing is just a shibboleth. While the Army is deployed or fighting at the border, the Talibs can mobilize to gut out Pakistan from behind.

Pakistan's pride in being a nuclear power coupled to insistence of its "sovereignty" in areas outside state control shows once again how the possession of nuclear weapons can be a weakness, rather than a strength: terrorists are attracted to Pakistan's nuclear umbrella, and Pakistan's efforts could instead have been exerted upon strengthening state institutions. Just as nukes didn't save South Africa's apartheid system, they can't save Pakistan from being eaten from within.
 
Solomon2

Uh-uh. The terrorists didn't claim that, Pakistani security did

how could you claim all this?! you can't prove it either.

Most of the captured terrorist are Afghanis and they are not asosiated with Talibans and in last few days the security forces captured several terrorist from Karachi, Lahore and other main cities which confessed that they had undergone training in RAW camps in India.

wouldn't it be a lot safer to attribute the project you are working on to nefarious Indians

working on nefarious Indians?

you are completly out of way man. just go and watch the indian propaganda against Pakistan.

the facts are that it's not the first time India is trying to destabilize / destroying Pakistan, they are trying to do it from past 60 years and this time it had the opportunity to attack Pakistan from the both sides.

The Talib which you are talking about are fully supported by indians. they aren't the real Talibans which are fighting in Afghanistan.

The goverment is not doing any statement against India to avoid tensions between Pak-India. Tensions could trigger a possible war which is the worse thing that can happen at this stage.

And sincerely Zardari isn't so famous as president...he just want dollars.

Time will come for everything and the truth always come out.

At this time there are several foreign agencies working against Pakistan; RAW, Mossad, KGB etc.
 
how could you claim all this?! you can't prove it either.
Just going by the linked articles on this thread.

Most of the captured terrorist are Afghanis -
After the Mumbai Massacre I take any Pakistani claim that terrorists caught aren't Pakistanis with four grains of salt. There is a real credibility problem here.

working on nefarious Indians? you are completly out of way man. just go and watch the indian propaganda against Pakistan.
Never seen any. India might have "wanted" Pakistan thirty or forty years ago, but why would India want the mess Pakistan has become today? What makes you think that Pakistan has anything anybody would want?

The goverment is not doing any statement against India to avoid tensions between Pak-India.
War tensions between Pakistan and India have in the past depended far more upon concrete actions on the ground than words in the air. Specific accusations, after all, can be refuted. An unspecific atmosphere of hate and aggression is a difficult-to-dissipate fog.

And sincerely Zardari isn't so famous as president...he just want dollars.
Yeah, and I'm wondering if he's grabbing what he can in order to escape his country later.

Time will come for everything and the truth always come out.
By that time it may be too late.

At this time there are several foreign agencies working against Pakistan; RAW, Mossad, KGB etc.
And well they should! It is usually (but not always) illegal, and often disreputable, but with nuclear powers espionage is more important to keeping the peace than it is to winning a war. Possibly all of these agencies are forwarding information to the Pakistani government in the hopes of avoiding wider conflict. So don't say, "against" Pakistan, rather, they are targeting Pakistan.
 
you have your own point of view but you lack in some basic informations about the realations between India-Pakistan.

you have to read the history of this region and then claim that India's top priorty goal is destroying Pakistan since 1947. Maybe some optimistic persons deny this but the facts are that we are enemies, we were enemies and we will remain enemies....i hope someday we could atleast stop hating each other....because i know it we will never become friends!

about the indian propaganda you can still wacth it anyware...just go on any indian news channel.....or their staements about Pakistan in international comunity....

i'm not saying that all bad things done in Pakistan are because of indians but they are also involved.

And i never said that all terrorist are indians or Afghani? their are also Pakistani who are working against Pakistan, they are just ignorant people sold for some money, brain washed by anti-Pakistan forces.

And blaiming just Pakistan for all the mess in this region isn't fair; U.S.A and Soviet Union also did most of the work to find all these problems that we have to face now days.

Foreign agencies are helping Pakistn...maybe but forget it that RAW or MOssad will do anything good for Pakistan.

You are too much on indian side....better to say anti_Pakistan side.

we know very well that we have also our internal problems to solve and we will sove them all.

Pakistan is here and it will remain till the end of the world!
 
Pakistan is here and it will remain till the end of the world!
Not the Pakistan envisioned by its founders. The idea of such is fading out, as its leadership has demonstrated no willingness to defend it. Like the fall of the Roman Empire, but faster, it is giving up ground day-by-day, bit-by-bit.
 
Indian Consulates are involved in terror activities in Pakistan and they get the goahaed signal from the Brits MI6 and CIA .No one can deny this. This is the reason why we backed off from the westren border to take care of our arch rival on the eastren border.
 
Not the Pakistan envisioned by its founders. The idea of such is fading out, as its leadership has demonstrated no willingness to defend it. Like the fall of the Roman Empire, but faster, it is giving up ground day-by-day, bit-by-bit.

Look if the US entered into our territory it will be boged down. Like it is in Afrghanistan. No body wants them here .Sooner or later you would be withdrawing from Afghanistan Like the Soviets .
With the current economic situation in US if you further persue the Endless War in Afghanistan than it would become difficult for your country to counter other reagional threats like North Korea , Iran , Venizuillah, the Rising Russian Bear.
Comon, you guys owe China 500bndollars

Someday this wars gona end and in case of Afghanistan its the forighn forces who have faced defeat not the locals .
 
Not the Pakistan envisioned by its founders. The idea of such is fading out, as its leadership has demonstrated no willingness to defend it.

How can you predict the future of Pakistan?our founders vision might strengthen in the near future once we get rid of taliban,today the people have known well that taliban and extremists are our enemies.Just propogate it,Pakistan is a failed state,Pakistan might fall :blah::blah: .Not all dreams become reality.

Like the fall of the Roman Empire, but faster, it is giving up ground day-by-day, bit-by-bit.
Usa too might someday fall.;):enjoy::yahoo::partay:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...exas-might-secede-first-signs-us-breakup.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/16703-russian-analyst-predicts-decline-breakup-usa.html
 
Some more insight....

http://www.defence.pk/forums/353964-post1.html

THE GENESIS OF INDO-AFGHAN RELATIONS AND ITS IMPLICATIONS ON PAKISTAN

Pak-Afghan Relations

Emergence of Pakistan
From the outset the relations between the two countries remain cold, Afghanistan opposed the creation of Pakistan and did not recognize its territorial integrity.

The question revision of the Durand Line and the demand of the so called Pakhtoonistan were the main reasons.

Occupation Era
In 1961 Pakistan and Afghanistan came close to war.

In the first week of December 1979, Afghan President Haifzullah Amin, contacted President Zia and offered Afghanistan’s acceptance of Durand Line as the international frontier. However, he was executed by the invading Soviet forces on December 26, 1979 after which the relations between the two countries deteriorated again.

Soviet Occupation
The Soveits invaded Afghanistan in 1979, but anti-government guerilla forces prevented them to take control of Afghanistan. The paramount objective of Pakistan’s policy makers in supporting the Afghan War was to block the revival of Afghanistan nationalism and persuade a friendly government in Kabul.

Post Soviet Era
By 1989 when the Soviet left, in 1992 Burhanuddin Rabbani became the interim President. Rabbani’s govt had the feelings that Pakistan had betrayed a former friendship based on military, financial and logistic support during the Afghan civil war. These sentiments were expressed by Rabbani’s representative to UN, thus to Northern Alliance, Pakistan was left with no credibility to broker peace for Afghansitan.

Taliban Era

Taliban came to power on 27 September 1996. Pakistan as matter of its foreign policy have to secure western borders, thus had to recognize Talibans (the Indian threat). This recognition had many serious implications for Pakistan.

Post Taliban Era
The famous U-turn…no more comments.

Relations with the Present Setup

Karzai sworn as Chairman of Afghan interim administration, whose cabinet was drawn from representatives of Northern Allaince, the Rome Group loyal to former Kind Zahir Shah and Peshawar exile groups (all the people with anti-Pakistan sentiments), so the results were obvious.


Indo-Afghan Relations


Historically Afghanistan have been part and parcel of the Indian psyche:

1. In 1960s, Afghanistan became one of the top recipients of Indian economic aid. India played a critical role in bringing together various factions of theh Afghan left movement in 1970.

2. When Afghanistan became the final battle ground of the Cold War, india tended to tail Soviet policy rather than develop its own independent profile. India’s Afghan policy during the period of the Soveit interventionary war was contradictory. Although New Delhi, vociferously decrided the involvement of external powers in the regions’ security affairs, it maintained a guarded silence over the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

3. India’s relations with most Afghan regimes remained cordial except the Taliban rule. However, it would be worth mentioning that unlike Afghan regimes, Indian governments in general did not extend support to the struggle of Afghan people against the Soviet forces.

Relation During Taliban Regime
During the Talibans rule in mid 90s, india was completely marginalized.

The Indian embassy in Kabul was closed down the day Taliban captured the city.

Indian Relations with the Present Setup
India had been playing a backdoor role at the Bonn deliberations, which brought the present government in existence. Thereafter, General Fahim the Afghani Defence Minster the brother of Ahmad Shah Masud also visited Indian. Points to be kept in mind are:

a. The current President Karzai did his postgarduation in political sciences from Shimla in the 80s. With this new set of government, india found in Afghanistan, a Muslim neighbor to counter Pakistan.

b. With four consulates in Jalabad, Kandhar, Heart and Mazar-e-Sharif, besides the embassy in Kabul, india’s diplomatic reach has never been as wide in Afghanistan as it is today. For the first time since partition, india poised to contribute significantly to the political and economic affairs of Afghanistan.

Indian Efforts to Win the Minds of Afghan People

India with the objective of isolation Pakistan is going all out to win the hearts and minds of Afghan people by helping them with the support required for reconstruction and development. Some of the areas of cooperation are:

a. Indian announced a financial assistance of US $ 100 million for Afghanistan

b. Assistance of 1 million ton of wheat.

c. Assistance provided in November 2001:

1. A team of 19 doctors and paramedics deputed at Kabul and Mazar-e-Sharif fo providing medical assistance.

2. Nearly 95 tone of medicines, medical instruments and equipment have been sent.

3. Winter clothing was sent to provide immediate humanitarian relief in December 2001.

4. A consignment of musical instrument was sent to Kabul as requested
by Afghan Radio and Television.

5. A 3 months training program for the Afgahan diplomats commenced at Foreign Institute Delhi.

6. Provided 50 buses for the public transport system. The second lot of 25 Tata buses was handed over in July 2003.

7. A LAN network with internet access via V Sat was established with supply of necessary equipment in the office of Foreign Minister.

8. 12 courses have been indentified ofr training of 250 Afghan police officers and cadets in india, 2 courses have been already completed and 7 are currently running at various police academies in inida (God they all would be so friendly to us)

9. A computer training center has been setup in Kabul for providing training to Afghan officials.

10. Deputation of experts to assist Central Bank of Afghanistan.

11. Approximately 19 ton of vegetable seeds have been supplied to the agriculture ministry.

12. Training of Afghan doctors and paramedics from “Indra Ghandhi Institute of Child Health” at All India Institute of Medical Sciences for 3 months started in 2002.

13. Three airbuses aircrafts gifted to Afghan Airlines (Gosh india is rich)

14. Made in India show was held under the auspices of the Confederation of Indian Industry.

It can be ascertained that india would continue to enhance its influence in Afghanistan in order to exacerbate Pakistan’s internal front and ensure substantial military commitment by Pakistan along with Pak-Afghan border by having best relations with the present Afghan leadership, possessing anti Pakistan sentiments.

Analysis of Indian Design


Strategic and Political Aim

Present Afghan govt is being used by india for the purpose of:

1. On the occasion of reopening ceremony of Indian embassy in Kabul Mr Jaswant Singh said, “I have the distinction of formally reopening the Indian mission in Kabul after a painful gap of long time. India by conviction is a great power, but it is nit flexing its muscles. We are simply telling that rest of the world that india is on the march, and it will not be stopped. It is much better that the rest of the world recognizes this fact.”

2. In the ongoing war in Afghanistan, india was so eager to be a party to GWOT. India wants to kill four birds in one go:

a. Gain its share of loaf in Afghanistan.

b. Fulfill its aim in Kashmir on the plea that ‘it is also against terrorism’

c. ‘Kashmiri terrorism’ means backed by Pakistan so the war against Pakistan should be supported by the world.

d. Anything involving Pakistan to Bin Laden is Muslim terrorism, so anti Muslim hype can be and is being whipped up in india.


Threats Emanating from Indian Designs
Afghanistan
India lost direct access to Afghanistan and became dependent on Pakistan for maintaining contacts including trade relation between the two countries. However, india is pursuing its desire of enhancing its global reach by having friendly relation with Afghanistan and Iran:

1. Excellent political relations with the Afghan leadership and foreseeable prospect for large scale economic cooperation have come to define india’s ‘forward policy’ in Afghanistan.

2. Afghanistan has approved more investment proposals in the last year than in previous 46 years.

3. India is expected to waive all duties on certain types of dry fuites and precious stones from Afghanistan. In return india will get duty free access for tea, medicine and other items.

Hostile Western Border
indian diplomatic corps is reportedly busy cultivating relations with importnat militray commanders operating close to Pakistani boders, moreover, india is busy in making all her efforts to create a gulf of misunderstanding between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Following will give more details.

Durand Line

Controversy concerning in Pak-Afghan border, the sources asserted that it was just a canard motived by vested interests demanding demarcation of international border.

Pakhtoonistan
It is one of the prime intrests of idia to keep the issue of so called Pakhtoonistan alive. indian has always been very supportive, and after 1965 war announced its open support to the so called 'Pakhtoonistan movement'

Law and Order
indian connections with former Afghan President Rabbani primarily dirceted towards creating problems for Pakistan.

Economic Threat
india is trying to bypass Pakistan by developing relations with the required infrastructure through Iran's Chahbahar port to have access to landlocked CARs and European countries.

india is basically desirous to divert the attention of international market and especially CARs away from Pakistan.

Tashkent's focus had shifted from Karachi to Mumbai for access to a global market.

Maligning Pakistan's Image

india has launched a strong media campaign, as evident from some of the following:
-' We are amused, disappointed but not surprised by refusal of Pakistan to cooperate with us to eradicate scourge of terrorism.

-'Together with Afghanistan, Pakistan became the epicenter of international terrorism. So long as this activity was promoted Pakistan's strategic interests were directed against india and it was ignored by the West'

-'While deep concerns are mounting about the nexus between fundamentalism, terrorism anmd weapons of mass destruction, the spot light is not on Pakistan, which has all the three ingredients of concern, plus the additional one of fears of it becoming a 'Failed State'.

We have seen how there is a remarkable lack of curiosity about Pakistan's nuclear connections with North Korea in exchange for missile technology, which poses grave challenges to indian security.

-'Pakistan is also deeply enmeshed in a narcotics problem that is complex, multifaceted and growing. Pakistan is a major producer of opium'.
 

Even if everything in that post is true, it still does not show any terrorist involvement. If everything therein is true, it will show that India is successfully cultivating diplomatic relations with Afghanistan which by mutual interest is anti-Pakistan.

I personally don't think India is motivated by anti-Pak sentiments as much as pro-Afghan & pro-India sentiments, but then I too may be biased.
 
you have your own point of view but you lack in some basic informations about the realations between India-Pakistan.you have to read the history of this region and then claim that India's top priorty goal is destroying Pakistan since 1947.

Pakistan is here and it will remain till the end of the world!

India is a democratic country. Its opinion (and priorities) are largely influenced by the opinion of its people. And from my experience, Pakistan is not priority no.1 by a looong shot. We have economic development, social equality, corruption, hatred of politicians etc. that are first topics of conversation when it comes to electing a government. Terror is the next big ticket item. No party is campaigning on an anti-Pakistan plank.

Even if you think BJP will win and that their manifesto will be the foreign policy statement of India, Pakistan is their priority no.3 in security topics and down in the last pages. And even there they talk about stopping cross border terror attacks, not destroying Pakistan. From their election Manifesto.(which has no mention of anything anti-Pakistan BTW).


" Use coercive diplomacy to isolate and compel countries engaging in exporting terror across the border to stop their misadventure. Ensure that the foreign tap of separatist groups in India is completely turned off."


Incidentally, their security priority no 2 is to fence Bangladesh border.

You have to understand that Indians love their country much more than they hate Pakistan. Destroying Pakistan is not something we sit around and talk over dinner, we have our own country to worry about. In as much as there is a perception that Pakistan is supporting terror attacks in India, there is talk about it on TV (Mumbai attacks etc.) . Nothing more.

I welcome the existence of Pakistan to the end of the world if its people believe it should, but please do not get distracted in protecting your own country due to the mistrust of India.
 
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