Temple destruction in the Indian subcontinent

[Sugarcane]

Edited it out.

For all the many things we disagree strongly on, I would still wish that no harm befall you or your loved ones. Family guy, got a missus etc.. not a good situation to be doxxed. I KNOW there's very angry people down there looking for you. Intel probably have good reason to take you in for "questioning".

It looks like lynching brigade have made her way on PDF as well.

 

[jamahir]

no idea lol

probably ?

No historical records surviving ??

What you say is very likely not true.

Come on, where do you see cats nowadays ?? Except generally for Bengal and Kerala where stray dogs are not so respected.

What, Muslims, history and a "respectful place for cats" ?

Do elucidate further, I hadn't the slightest idea

From one of @revol's threads :

Cats hold a special place to the Muslims, since Prophet Muhammad is very fond of cats.

One story mentioned that a cat saved Prophet Mohammad from being bitten by a deadly snake.

There was also a story of the Prophet cutting off his shirt sleeve rather than disturbing his sleeping cat when it was time for prayers. When people at the mosque noticed him wearing a torn sleeved robe, they asked "Holy Prophet, why is your garment torn?"

The Prophet simply replied that his cat is sleeping soundly upon the sleeve of his robe and rather than disturbing the cat, he cut the sleeve and put on what remained of his garment. The Prophet is so kind to animals that he would not pull the garment or awaken the cat, instead he rather cut his robe and let the cat sleep undisturbed.

It is a well-known fact that the Prophet is a cat lover and respect animals. Muslims are taught to follow his exemplary behaviour on kindness to animals.

A companion of the Prophet was given the name Abu Hurairah. The name Abu Hurairah means 'father of the cats'. Abu Hurairah was given this name because where ever he goes, he always had a kitten with him.

In another Hadith text, the Prophet told his companions of a woman who would be sent to Hell for having locked up a cat; not feeding it, nor even releasing it so that it could feed herself. "

Watch this promo vid about a documentary called Kedi which is about the cats of Istanbul.

You can get lot of info from this article :

Istanbul's cats are as famous as its dogs. Nowadays, the new pastime among neighborhood locals is feeding street cats. When these people go out on the street, all of the neighborhood cats gather around them and open their mouths as if mobilization was declared. They are a far cry from catching rats, let alone rummaging through the garbage.

The kid of the house

Mice were the unwanted inhabitants of old wooden houses and cats were their mortal enemies. In the past, a house without a cat was unthinkable. Not every cat can catch a mouse since it must be a mousing cat. Cats that are not hunters by instinct are paired with the hunters and they get used to the job in a short period of time.

Cats were fed not only to catch the mice but to befriend children and the elderly. Especially people who see no loyalty from their relatives or friends, or people who have no children, show their love and compassion to the cats. Prince Şerefeddin Efendi was exiled from his homeland, forcing him to live alone in Beirut. It was his lifelong companion, his cat, who notified the neighbors of his death.

Every domestic cat is almost like the kid of the house. When someone in the household shows a child even slightly more interest, they get jealous. There were people who looked after dozens and even hundreds of street cats and fed them. The stories whose protagonists are genies, always featured a cat as the genie in disguise.

Cats are smart animals with strong senses. Even if they go miles away, they can find their way back home. According to the common belief, cats are ungrateful, while dogs are renowned for their loyalty. However, the religious scholars favor cats, which expect their sustenance from god without showing gratitude to anyone, but they do not favor dogs which is beleoved to "dirty" their owners.

In Islam, if cat urine stains one's clothes, it is not regarded as dirty, while a dog's saliva is considered to be dirty and if it gets on your clothes you cannot pray in them unless the stain is rinsed off. In fact, according to the Shafii school of thought, if a dog's saliva stains one's clothes, that stain is required to be rinsed off seven times in order to be able to pray in them again.

Cats and humans

Prophet Muhammad's fondness for cats is conveyed in his hadith: "Affection for cats is part of faith" (Maqasid al-Hasanah, al-Sakhawi). So, loving a cat is a sign that someone is a believer. When Prophet Muhammad came across a black-and-white Abyssinian cat breastfeeding her kitten during the Uhud campaign, he changed the course of his soldiers. On his way back he adopted this cat and gave her the name "Muezza." One day, he slightly tipped his cup so that a cat passing by could drink some water.

A companion of Prophet Muhammad was given the name Abu Hurairah, which means "father of cats." Abu Hurairah was given this name because wherever he went, he always had a cat with him. It is even said among the people that Prophet Muhammad stroked the back of a cat for strangling a snake that was about to harm someone and that is why cats land on four feet and not on their backs.

The nickname of Pir Asad, one of Rumi's caliphs, renowned for his love of cats, was nicknamed "Pisili Sultan" (Sultan with Kitties). When his beloved cat died, he had it buried right near his foot. They say that while Ahmed Rufah, one of the elders, was sitting, his cat came and fell asleep on the sleeve of his robe. When the time for Friday prayer arrived he did not want to disturb the cat, so he cut his sleeve off instead of waking it.

The prophet's hadith, "Have mercy on the creatures of Allah so that Allah may have mercy on you," was the motto of the elderly. The prophet also said that a woman who kept a cat locked up and failed to feed it until it died, would be sent to hell, while a prostitute, who gave water to a dog that was dying from thirst, would be forgiven.

Master's cat

There is a mosque in Damascus called Masjid al-Qitat. "Qitat" means "cats" in Arabic. It is also a foundation that was established to protect the cat thrown out in the street. The caretaker of the mosque purchases liver with the some of the foundation's income and feeds hundreds of cats every day.

İsmail Saib Sencer, the director of the Bayezid Library in Istanbul, fed hundreds of cats. For this reason, Bayezid Library was called "The Cat Library."

There are too many kinds of cats. They are from the same species as lions and tigers. Some of them are incredibly beautiful, and for some stroking their hair is the greatest pleasure. İsmet Sungurbey, a teacher of law in Istanbul, fed hundreds of cats in his school's garden. Later he wrote a book called "Hayvan Hakları" (Animal Rights). Arndt, a chemistry professor at Istanbul University, taught lessons with his cat on his shoulder. The cats that were allowed to roam freely and go in and out and fall asleep wherever they want with out being bothered we called the "Master's cats."

There were also those who were not too fond of cats. Sultan Abdülmecid was allergic to cats, and he did not want to be in the same room with one. The story goes that one morning, while reciting the Quran, he went out for a while, and when he came back, he saw that a cat had scratched and stained the pages. That was the last time he came near cats again. As a matter of fact, when he and his men stepped into Beykoz Palace one time, a cat came out to meet them and he immediately ordered his men to "turn back." But his son Sultan Abdülhamid adored cats. This sultan had a white long-haired cat named "Agha Effendi."

Requiem for cats

As apartment life began, the glorious days of cats came to an end. Current houses are not suitable for feeding cats. Cats are clean animals, but they want a house with a garden. Now that cats serve as a toy, they are in a state of numbness and forgetfulness of their true nature. Moreover, even if Islam does not allow people and animals to be sterilized, they forced to endure this operation so that the owners are comfortable.

There is also a place for cats in oriental literature. A poet called Maali, who lived in the time of the Sultan Süleyman the Magnificent, wrote a requiem for cats. Namık Kemal, one of the 19th century poets, wrote a poem similar to this, which describes the merits and superiorities of cats with humorous language.

Stories, jokes and sagas feature cats as well. The story goes that Nasreddin Hodja's wife cooked and then devoured 3 kilos of liver that he brought. In the evening when he came home, she blamed a cat. He then weighed the cat which tipped the scale at 3 kilos. "Lady, if this is the cat then where is the meat, if this is the meat then where is the cat?" he famously asked his wife. Though cats are famous for theft, the poor animals are blamed for almost everything that is lost.

Some more info from Wikipedia :

Origins of reverence

Cats have been venerated in the Near East since antiquity, a tradition adopted by Islam, albeit in a much modified form. According to many hadith, Muhammad prohibited the persecution and killing of cats.


Cat resting on a pillow next to an imam in Cairo, by John Frederick Lewis

One of Muhammad's companions was known as Abu Hurairah (literally: "Father of the Kitten") for his attachment to cats. Abu Hurairah claimed that he had heard Muhammad declare that a woman went to Hell for starving a female kitten and not providing her with any water. According to legend, Abu Saeed's cat saved Muhammad from a snake.

History

The American poet and travel author Bayard Taylor (1825–1878) was astonished when he discovered a Syrian hospital where cats roamed freely. The institution, in which domestic felines were sheltered and nourished, was funded by a waqf, along with caretakers' wages, veterinary care and cat food. Edward William Lane (1801–1876), a British Orientalist who resided in Cairo, described a cat garden originally endowed by the 13th-century Egyptian sultan Baibars, whose European contemporaries held a very different attitude towards cats, eating them or killing them under papal decrees. Wilfred Thesiger, in his book The Marsh Arabs, notes that cats were allowed free entry to community buildings in villages in the Mesopotamian Marshes, and even fed. Aside from protecting granaries and food stores from pests, cats were valued by the paper-based Arab-Islamic cultures for preying on mice that destroyed books. For that reason, cats are often depicted in paintings alongside Islamic scholars and bibliophiles. The medieval Egyptian zoologist Al-Damiri(1344–1405) wrote that the first cat was created when God caused a lion to sneeze, after animals on Noah's Ark complained of mice.

but the rise of the "sanghi" (and we should use that term loosely) has as much to do with the Muslim community otherizing themselves over the decades as it does with any discrimination and bigotry toward them. A lot of their wounds are self inflicted, do they feel compelled by ideology ? Who knows.... an uncomfortable investigation.

The change in the Muslim community occurred after the beginning of the Ram Janmabhumi movement in the 80s.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Teri kya aukat hai.

Look at the following countries.

Pakistan
Bangladesh
Afghanistan
Brunei
Indonesia
Malaysia
Singapore

And without resorting to genocides even!

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Look at the following countries.

Pakistan
Bangladesh
Afghanistan
Brunei
Indonesia
Malaysia
Singapore

And without resorting to genocides even!

Firstly, Singapore is not Islamic. Secondly you are deviating from your own point. Thirdly, India is not any of these countries and it still has a lot of Hindus.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Firstly, Singapore is not Islamic. Secondly you are deviating from your own point. Thirdly, India is not any of these countries and it still has a lot of Hindus.

Point is you are left with India.

After India balkanizes, you will be left with numerous Hindu kingdoms (perhaps) and Nepal.

Your aukaat is being relegated to a minor part of a sub continent. While Islam is followed by almost a 1/3 of humanity now.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

no idea lol

probably ?


What you say is very likely not true.


What, Muslims, history and a "respectful place for cats" ?

Do elucidate further, I hadn't the slightest idea


What data do you have to back such sweeping generalizations ?

Probably true anyway though

but the rise of the "sanghi" (and we should use that term loosely) has as much to do with the Muslim community otherizing themselves over the decades as it does with any discrimination and bigotry toward them. A lot of their wounds are self inflicted, do they feel compelled by ideology ? Who knows.... an uncomfortable investigation.

They're not even a minority, they're a block. To group them in with the rest would be unfair.

Integration into the mainstream via education is the solution, also population control across the board.


They destroyed temples too ?

anyway, as I stated earlier.. not an expert, not my favorite subject..

It's very likely true that invading Islamic armies destroyed a lot of temples and forced convert the natives to their ways... don't really care lol

and just in case they were benevolent noble explorers etc who people just happened to agree with as far as becoming Muslim.. don't care either.

Yes they did, and massacred other hindus too

 

[W.11]

We come across this theme from time to time.

I would like this to become a sticky.

Hindus have a habit of pushing this narrative so it is best there is ONE single thread for this.

Coming to the usual cribbing - Hindus produce volumes of contemporary historical accounts of court chroniclers who gleefully state how temples were destroyed and so on. Muslims then go on and claim the temple destructions were for so and so reasons. Some say a few were destroyed, some give reasons for it and so on.

But the point is this - Muslims remain ON THE DEFENSIVE. This is their objective.

Why?

Why not ask counter questions?

Who FAILED TO PROTECT these temples? Why did the oh so powerful Hindus with their 5000 year old civilisation fail to save their dearest civilizational relics of the past?
Were they cowards? Weaklings?

Muslims have NOTHING to feel ashamed about destroying idols. I am opposed to temples destruction in principle because the same buildings can be used for other more beneficial purposes. But idol worship is something no practicing Muslim can condone.

Hindus of then knew this.

Why did they not unite and defeat the Arabs, the Slave dynasties and Turks etc?

Why dump the inability to protect them then on the shoulders of Muslims today? Will your bravado or questions like these bring those temples back?

My point is simple. We should not be defensive when countering these allegations. When Muslim armies invaded India they had the right to the spoils of war. There is absolutely no need for Muslims to suffer for it today or feel ashamed about.

Instead you can feel proud. How small armies could overcome great hardship and opposition and still entrench themselves in a foreign land filled with corruption, greed and caste discrimination.

@xeuss @The_Showstopper Please tag other relevant people who may be able to contribute.

temples were destroyed but new temples were also commissioned, the temples which were destroyed had some political themes attached to them as these temples were also associated with the royal kingdoms and carried their symbols, the temples served as a propaganda tool of the royal family to strength their rule and show who was the boss.

Hindu temples were attacked even by marathas who plundered and looted temple called siringiri temple which was patronised by tipu sultan and they killed all the priests in the temple.

The looting and taking away the icons of the temple was prevalent in pre islamic india, the kings would invade and take away the statues/murtis from the temple, this is attested in pre maurya era where hathigumpha inscription mentions nandas and mauryas taking way their jain icons after invading kalinga.

regards

 

[masterchief_mirza]

It is a hard question for north indian (and pakistani)bhayyas to answer,,who unashamedly claim martial heritage.
But Fact of the matter is they were too incompetent and phattu to do anythng,,other then meekly converting.(or somehow surviving by bootpolishing the invaders)

Most of northindia plus current day pakistan were under constant and relentless foreign occupation.
They had little choice in these matters.They were forcefully assimilated into newer religions just like they were forced into older ones in the past.
This was the Typical fate of cowards in old days.

Eh? Maybe we saw something better than sati, elephant riding and servitude of Brahmins when the invaders arrived.

Meanwhile, you can carry on under the historical yoke of your preferred invaders, the Aryans.

My ancestors made the right choice thanks.

It is similar to what happened to Elves in Belerialand at the end of the First Age.
They lost huge amount of their cultural heritage but soon rebuilt a vast Elvish empire in the Second Age.
Hindu are now in th

temples were destroyed but new temples were also commissioned, the temples which were destroyed had some political themes attached to them as these temples were also associated with the royal kingdoms and carried their symbols, the temples served as a propaganda tool of the royal family to strength their rule and show who was the boss.

Hindu temples were attacked even by marathas who plundered and looted temple called siringiri temple which was patronised by tipu sultan and they killed all the priests in the temple.

The looting and taking away the icons of the temple was prevalent in pre islamic india, the kings would invade and take away the statues/murtis from the temple, this is attested in pre maurya era where hathigumpha inscription mentions nandas and mauryas taking way their jain icons after invading kalinga.

regards

It's hard for the elephant riders to see who is actually killing whom and who is smashing what temple from up there.

@IAF Meteor missile

 

[AfrazulMandal]

temples were destroyed but new temples were also commissioned, the temples which were destroyed had some political themes attached to them as these temples were also associated with the royal kingdoms and carried their symbols, the temples served as a propaganda tool of the royal family to strength their rule and show who was the boss.

Hindu temples were attacked even by marathas who plundered and looted temple called siringiri temple which was patronised by tipu sultan and they killed all the priests in the temple.

The looting and taking away the icons of the temple was prevalent in pre islamic india, the kings would invade and take away the statues/murtis from the temple, this is attested in pre maurya era where hathigumpha inscription mentions nandas and mauryas taking way their jain icons after invading kalinga.

regards

Sorry.

Don't care about the whys of temple destruction.

People matter more.

Or should matter more.

My point is that Muslims NEED NOT be defensive when dealing with this topic.

Secondly, Hindus allege about IDOL DESECRATION/DESTRUCTION. In their holy way only breaking an idol is unholy. Stealing it is fine. LOL.

Finally, I can punch a massive hole in the argument in you made about the 'why'.
Imagine some survivors of the original Arab pagans. To give you an example -
If they make demands that their holy idols were destroyed and they want them back, and they try to shame you - what would your response be?

Discuss with your friends (Muslims only) before you blurt out an answer. I do not like posting such in this month, but it will help you reach the right approach that I am advocating.

Fast safely.

no idea lol

probably ?


What you say is very likely not true.


What, Muslims, history and a "respectful place for cats" ?

Do elucidate further, I hadn't the slightest idea


What data do you have to back such sweeping generalizations ?

Probably true anyway though

but the rise of the "sanghi" (and we should use that term loosely) has as much to do with the Muslim community otherizing themselves over the decades as it does with any discrimination and bigotry toward them. A lot of their wounds are self inflicted, do they feel compelled by ideology ? Who knows.... an uncomfortable investigation.

They're not even a minority, they're a block. To group them in with the rest would be unfair.

Integration into the mainstream via education is the solution, also population control across the board.


They destroyed temples too ?

anyway, as I stated earlier.. not an expert, not my favorite subject..

It's very likely true that invading Islamic armies destroyed a lot of temples and forced convert the natives to their ways... don't really care lol

and just in case they were benevolent noble explorers etc who people just happened to agree with as far as becoming Muslim.. don't care either.

As @Joe Shearer would explain to you, temple destruction was simply a part of ruling people then.

Personally I don't care about sanctity of a place that bars people from 'lower caste' from even visiting.

Go figure.

 

[Wounded-Monk]

Temple destruction
1) There were times invaders were pardoned too —> poor invaders came back with vengeance
2) Reason pyrashchitt (Atonement) is superior to Kshama (forgiveness)
3) Now they had to fight a thousand year battle to establish their rule over a period of time
4) Formed a secular country (Principle: Vasudhaiv kutumbkam—> World is a family)
5) Deal: Respect idol worshippers and Get respect for worshipping invisible being
6) Choice for Non seculars: Go and settle in non secular places on planet earth

Peace

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Point is you are left with India.

After India balkanizes, you will be left with numerous Hindu kingdoms (perhaps) and Nepal.

Your aukaat is being relegated to a minor part of a sub continent. While Islam is followed by almost a 1/3 of humanity now.

India balkanises ? How are you so certain that will happen. That is much more likely to happen to your beloved Pakistan and it has already happened once in 1971.

India and Nepal are both Hindu. India alone has 1.1 billion Hindus roughly. Besides there are millions more in Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, the Carribean, Mauritius, US and UK. Keep dreaming. We aren't going anywhere.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sorry.

Don't care about the whys of temple destruction.

People matter more.

Or should matter more.

My point is that Muslims NEED NOT be defensive when dealing with this topic.

Secondly, Hindus allege about IDOL DESECRATION/DESTRUCTION. In their holy way only breaking an idol is unholy. Stealing it is fine. LOL.

Finally, I can punch a massive hole in the argument in you made about the 'why'.
Imagine some survivors of the original Arab pagans. To give you an example -
If they make demands that their holy idols were destroyed and they want them back, and they try to shame you - what would your response be?

Discuss with your friends (Muslims only) before you blurt out an answer. I do not like posting such in this month, but it will help you reach the right approach that I am advocating.

Fast safely.


As @Joe Shearer would explain to you, temple destruction was simply a part of ruling people then.

Personally I don't care about sanctity of a place that bars people from 'lower caste' from even visiting.

Go figure.

Bitter but accurate. Let it not be thought, however, that I like what you are writing, but truth is truth.

Ramzan kareem.

 

[Raghav_101]

Point is you are left with India.

After India balkanizes, you will be left with numerous Hindu kingdoms (perhaps) and Nepal.

Your aukaat is being relegated to a minor part of a sub continent. While Islam is followed by almost a 1/3 of humanity now.

My religion so good. 1/3rd humanity follows it. My religion so good we will convert you all. Lol.
You guys claim very proudly that 1/3rd of the humanity follows Islam but do you ever also talk about

How most of these 1/3rd stand NOWHERE in the global power circles? I mean... Islamic world is so weak that Pakistan is it's most powerful nation. Thats where you stand.

Always singing 1/3rd of the humanity.
Is this number a homogenous entity? Half of the Muslims nations will gladly obliterate the other half at the very first opportunity. You are not just 1/3rd of the humanity... You are also poor, weak and divided. And yes, DELUSIONAL. Missed that.

Who are dying in Syria ? Muslims.
Yemen ? Muslims
Afghanistan ? Again , Muslims .

Mid east is the only shining jewel for you guys. Too bad the future looks bleak for them too.

Now don't start about India aur hindus as they aren't 1/3rd of humanity . But seriously, open your goddamn eyes. Muslims are at the receiving end of everything, along with so much hate of course.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You yourself have admit that you have no real knowledge yet you want to sit here and spew nonsense and expect us to take you seriously?

You are wrong.
not only are you wrong, but you are ignorant.
You are also Indian.
I have found a large correlation between those 3 facts in my old age.

Thank you.
Hope you and your loved ones are staying safe.
Ramzan kareem.

If you have a real interest in History and not just Hindutva brainwashing, I suggest you watch some YouTube videos (not Hindutva ones) on ancient Indian empires.
They were as brutal and "barbaric" as any nation on earth.

Here let me get you started

(note at around 2:20 they talk about Indian war elephants)

 

[Rusty]

You are wrong.
not only are you wrong, but you are ignorant.
You are also Indian.
I have found a large correlation between those 3 facts in my old age.

Thank you.
Hope you and your loved ones are staying safe.
Ramzan kareem.

I'll sorry you were offended.
But you cannot deny the sheer volume of Indians expressing incorrect and ignorant beliefs.
Everything from forced conversions to 20% Hindu population in Pakistan and now.

I honestly think that the few smart Indians know they are lying but keep saying the lies. The rest are truly ignorant.