Tejas, JF-17 among 108 Aircraft confimed to be participating at the Bahrain International Airshow.

[Saurabh jindals]

Kya Sharma Ji why are you burned so many A$$'s, the moment you you posted confirmation news burnol sale is up in pakistan.

 

[Aero]

My dear JF17 is real awakening for teja (chotto) out of dope suppressing your hallucinations

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Dafuq man...That's what called serious Marketing...

And some other guys seriously try but get it all wrong. this one almost started a war between india and israel coz all Indians who saw it ended up getting brain cancer

 

[Saurabh jindals]

And some other guys seriously try but get it all wrong. this one almost started a war between india and israel coz all Indians who saw it ended up getting brain cancer

It was too good, Completely out of box marketing.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Bahrain International Airshow Trade 2016 - Trade Visitors

View attachment 280745
108 Aircraft are now confimed to be participating at the Bahrain International Airshow. Detailed below is the full list of aircraft in both the static and flying display.

The SARANG display team being present is very welcome news.

 

[Saurabh jindals]

How Tejas has a BVR superiority over JF17...

1.The RADAR
The Elta 2052 is an advanced airborne Active electronically scanned array fire control radar for fighter aircraft. It is suitable for F-15, MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and LCA Tejas. The EL/M-2052 is an advanced Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for air superiority and advanced strike missions.The FCR is based on fully solid-state active phased array technology. This new technology enables the radar to achieve a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. The EL/M-2052 radar incorporates operational feedback from Israeli Air Force combat pilots.

The radar introduces improvements to the Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea operation modes of the aircraft. In the Air-to-air mode, the radar enables a very long-range multi targets detection and enables several simultaneous weapon deliveries in combat engagements.

In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging. In Air-to-Sea missions the radar provides long-range target detection and tracking, including target classification capabilities (RS, ISAR).

AESA radar is resistant to jamming. JF17 jammers can't jam AESA radar
JF17 KLJ-7 uses a mechanically-steered planar array antenna and bears similarities with the various Russian radars imported in the 1990s.

>>>>>>Better radar.
Hello you miss super Imp. Point with all these Tajes mk 1A will be just 190 cr. ~ less then 30 Million $ whereas JF 17 with Tin box already costing now 25 - 30 million $
2. THE RADAR cross-section
Tejas employs various features to keep the RCS low, including Y-shaped air inlets, extensive use of composite materials (which do not reflect radar waves) and a generous coating of radar-absorbing materials over the control surfaces.

JF17 has metallic body, so it has higher radar cross section.

3. The Propulsion
The General Electric F414 is an after burning turbofan engine in the 22,000-pound (98 kN) thrust class produced by GE Aviation. The F414 originated from GE's widely used F404 turbofan from the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet, enlarged and improved for use in the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

Maximum speed: Designed max speed Mach 1.6. Achieved in tests.

JF17 has
RD-33 Russian
Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning.
Life expectancy: 4,000 hours
or
Chinese WS-13 somehow achieves 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner, But life span of 2,200 hours only. Chinese have sacrificed engine lifespan to un-economical levels to achieve thrust. JF17 with WS-13 will need frequent engine replacement.

>>>>>>So better engine.

4. The Jammers
" They carry an Israeli jammer on it would practically make them invisible to our legacy
radar(non AESA) in the F-15 and F-16."(quoted by Lecture by USAF Col. Terrence Fornof on Indian Mig 21 bison with Israeli jammer).

Better Israeli jammer on Tejas will make it invisible to non AESA radars like KLJ-7 on JF17.

5. The Missiles

Russian R77 --- Operational range 80 km (R-77), 110 km (R-77-1) fire-and-forget missile

Indian Astra --- Operational range 80 km in head on chase ----- 20 km in tail chase

JF17 has
Chinese PL-12 active-radar BVR air-to-air missile --- Operational range 70 km - 100 km.

==================================================================

So Tejas has BVR edge over JF17. Here follows an BVR engagement scenario :

1. Tejas Elta 2052 AESA radar will track and lock on JF17. remember Tejas has lower radar cross section due to
composite body and better AESA radar.

2. Tejas will fire a pair(India can spend more missiles) of R-77-1 at 110km.

3. Israeli jammer will start jamming JF17's KLJ-7(non AESA radar). JF17 jammer fails to jam Israeli AESA radar(AESA radar speciality).

4. R-77 missile comes within 20km of JF17, the R-77 missile switches to its active radar mode.

5. Tejas makes a U-turn and fires chaff and escapes into Indian S400 range. Starts terrain hugging flight to evade radar and escape.

Tejas will repeat the above strategy again and again, and kill many JF17s.
India can afford to buy better BVR missiles in larger numbers from west. India should buy a large stockpile of BVR missiles.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

More interesting thing is JF-17 displayed by PAF, not by Kamra. Interesting, pretty interesting.

Are you nuts or what??Also do tell me how can a city(kamra) display an aircraft at a foreign show.
Please get your facts first by using uncle google

 

[Saurabh jindals]

How Tejas has a BVR superiority over JF17...

1.The RADAR
The Elta 2052 is an advanced airborne Active electronically scanned array fire control radar for fighter aircraft. It is suitable for F-15, MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and LCA Tejas. The EL/M-2052 is an advanced Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for air superiority and advanced strike missions.The FCR is based on fully solid-state active phased array technology. This new technology enables the radar to achieve a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. The EL/M-2052 radar incorporates operational feedback from Israeli Air Force combat pilots.

The radar introduces improvements to the Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea operation modes of the aircraft. In the Air-to-air mode, the radar enables a very long-range multi targets detection and enables several simultaneous weapon deliveries in combat engagements.

In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging. In Air-to-Sea missions the radar provides long-range target detection and tracking, including target classification capabilities (RS, ISAR).

AESA radar is resistant to jamming. JF17 jammers can't jam AESA radar
JF17 KLJ-7 uses a mechanically-steered planar array antenna and bears similarities with the various Russian radars imported in the 1990s.

>>>>>>Better radar.

You need to check your
3. The Propulsion. Its GE 404

Best point you miss is Tajes mk1 A cost is 190cr @ less then 30 million $ where as JF with tin box already costs 25-30 million $
2. THE RADAR cross-section
Tejas employs various features to keep the RCS low, including Y-shaped air inlets, extensive use of composite materials (which do not reflect radar waves) and a generous coating of radar-absorbing materials over the control surfaces.

JF17 has metallic body, so it has higher radar cross section.

3. The Propulsion
The General Electric F414 is an after burning turbofan engine in the 22,000-pound (98 kN) thrust class produced by GE Aviation. The F414 originated from GE's widely used F404 turbofan from the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet, enlarged and improved for use in the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

Maximum speed: Designed max speed Mach 1.6. Achieved in tests.

JF17 has
RD-33 Russian
Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning.
Life expectancy: 4,000 hours
or
Chinese WS-13 somehow achieves 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner, But life span of 2,200 hours only. Chinese have sacrificed engine lifespan to un-economical levels to achieve thrust. JF17 with WS-13 will need frequent engine replacement.

>>>>>>So better engine.

4. The Jammers
" They carry an Israeli jammer on it would practically make them invisible to our legacy
radar(non AESA) in the F-15 and F-16."(quoted by Lecture by USAF Col. Terrence Fornof on Indian Mig 21 bison with Israeli jammer).

Better Israeli jammer on Tejas will make it invisible to non AESA radars like KLJ-7 on JF17.

5. The Missiles

Russian R77 --- Operational range 80 km (R-77), 110 km (R-77-1) fire-and-forget missile

Indian Astra --- Operational range 80 km in head on chase ----- 20 km in tail chase

JF17 has
Chinese PL-12 active-radar BVR air-to-air missile --- Operational range 70 km - 100 km.

==================================================================

So Tejas has BVR edge over JF17. Here follows an BVR engagement scenario :

1. Tejas Elta 2052 AESA radar will track and lock on JF17. remember Tejas has lower radar cross section due to
composite body and better AESA radar.

2. Tejas will fire a pair(India can spend more missiles) of R-77-1 at 110km.

3. Israeli jammer will start jamming JF17's KLJ-7(non AESA radar). JF17 jammer fails to jam Israeli AESA radar(AESA radar speciality).

4. R-77 missile comes within 20km of JF17, the R-77 missile switches to its active radar mode.

5. Tejas makes a U-turn and fires chaff and escapes into Indian S400 range. Starts terrain hugging flight to evade radar and escape.

Tejas will repeat the above strategy again and again, and kill many JF17s.
India can afford to buy better BVR missiles in larger numbers from west. India should buy a large stockpile of BVR missiles.

 

[rockstarIN]

How many Gs does it pull now?

Knife edge maneuver requires 8 which will be performed as per the initial article

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Saudia and Jordon



So why IAF made that?



That is not an answer. Let me repeat. Where LCA stand as per IAF requirements?

IAF stated policy is to operate 3 different classes of fighters:

'Heavy' with deep penetration and strike(Su 30 MKI & Pak Fa)
'Mid with multi-role (Rafale and AMCA in future- current are jets like mid 27s)
'Light' for Point Defense (LCA)

The fact that the IAF has ordered 100 and that IAF+ Navy orders will cross 200 means that Tejas will fulfill the entire need in the light category. This is officially one of the most successful projects of this kind in the world tody and will keep production lines running for at least 20 years with the Mk2 versions. People who talk about delays don't realize with AESA composites and electronics it meets the needs of today's requirements, not the requirements as proposed in the 1980s.

As for JF 17 a very crucial point raised by @inventer777 I didn't think about before. American GE engines probably are above 7000 hours. Engine life for Russian engine is 4000 hours (which probably explains why they go for twin engines most of the time as redundancy). If you go ahead with the plans for the Chinese engines with half the Russian life, you have a maintenance nightmare.

When you design single engined jets you need to have EXTREMELY reliable engines (explains why India went to US and not Russia). You have engines of half the life span of what is needed. Where India will have 2 engines after 1 change, JF 17 will have 4. Instead of being 'cheap' - adding maintenance it will be spectacularly more expensive and will have low availability because it'll be inside shop so much more often. And there is no real indication on avionics and radar upgrades being 'best in class', especially after India blockaded the french avionics.

congrats @Windjammer , you so screwed it's not even funny anymore. They just gave you one biiiiiggggg jalebi. I guess people like @war&peace and @American Pakistani should stay away from this post coz you need to know how to add and stuff for this.

 

[nForce]

And some other guys seriously try but get it all wrong. this one almost started a war between india and israel coz all Indians who saw it ended up getting brain cancer

OMG. I wish I didn't see that. Going to have nightmares now.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

@inventer777 welcome to the forum . I was on 'vacation' when you joined

It was too good, Completely out of box marketing.

But execution really flopped.

 

[Manindra]

As for JF 17 a very crucial point raised by @inventer777 I didn't think about before. American GE engines probably are above 7000 hours. Engine life for Russian engine is 4000 hours (which probably explains why they go for twin engines most of the time as redundancy). If you go ahead with the plans for the Chinese engines with half that life, you have a maintenance nightmare.

A correction,
GE F-404 have 6000 hrs. of Engine life but in India's tropical condition it would be between 5000 to 5500 hs.
RD-33MK have 4000 hrs of engine life but RD-93 variant used in JF-17 have 2200 hrs of life(sacrifice some engine life for the sake of extra thrust) but can't comment on its but can't comment on its engine life in sub continent's tropical condition.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

A correction,
GE F-404 have 6000 hrs. of Engine life but in India's tropical condition it would be between 5000 to 5500 hs.
RD-33MK have 4000 hrs of engine life but RD-93 variant used in JF-17 have 2200 hrs of life(sacrifice some engine life for the sake of extra thrust) but can't comment on its but can't comment on its engine life in sub continent tropical condition.

according to what I read 1 'averages between 6500 hours between in flight events' or something. So I guesstimated overall life might be above 7000 hours.

 

[nang2]

Fantastic news!