Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[gau8av]

That's because Russia wants to sell is desperately and they can force only India or china. But china do not seems intrested and time n again news comes china is buying, thats why this deal lingering on with china

export version to China was to have a much less powerful radar and a few other features missing too.

and the Russians would be wary of them reverse engineering what they don't get to legit license produce.

 

[Basel]

What is your source ? Leave PAF

Those were offered during IDEAS 2014, a comprehensive presentation was given to Pakistan military officials.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

well i'm not asking about comparative.. I have ask simple question that India has su-30, mig-29, mirage 2000.. and from them PAF pilots has hands on Su-30 and M2k and i don't know about mig-29 that's why i have asked the question..
@Windjammer @ACE OF THE AIR @Irfan Baloch @Stealth @Foxtrot-Bravo

Well, If we do get this SU-35 beast we surely will have a great advantage in means of an upper hand and air superiority.

 

[Pindi Boy]

Russia will never sell these birds to us

 

[abdulbarijan]

What you mean by your source ? Is that mean u source was sitting inside room where this negotiations took place . I bet you won't find any ...

But check this
PAF denies SU-35 negotiations and contracts: Reuters Journalist

I can't find this source either which is weird it's now vanished . It was also debated on PAF itself. I think it got merged with this sticky thread .

We don't need your source but real source . Or don't try to mislead. Am not here to spoil your party buy I like to keeping it real. I already mentioned It's highly unlikely to go through , But can't be ruled out

I can't find it. But it's in this thread some one could do the favor by going through

I have found it more or less ... and there was a reason why this "source" was deleted .. It was because it was a journalist who was supposedly citing a PAF official ...not on a published article .. but his twitter ... and the tweet was posted on here by an Indian friend who created an entire thread on it ... if Im not mistaken ...

In the events that followed, He was called out by defence.pk .. to which his response was that he talked to a paf official .. regarding this news ... Unsurprisingly ... no further comments ever came from his side after the Janes published a piece in which they cited a PAF official saying that talks were on for SU-35 ...

So its the credibility of a journalist whom we've never even heard from ... versus the credibility of Janes ... one of the most reputed and credible source of information in the defense industry ... you can take your pick ....

Lastly, regarding the series of events you posted ... they are quite off ...

1. Originally after the MMRCA, there were suggestions to the Russian administration, that they should try and sell the Mig-35 that India rejected to Pakistan ... (2011)

Russia Experts Says Russia Could Sell Mig-35 Fighter Jets To Pakistan - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

2.Rumors of Pakistan being interested in SU-35 have swirled around .... (2012)

Is PAF going to get 24 Su-35 fighter?

3. Sputnik international reported regarding the SU-35 and its exports in which Pakistan was reported as a potential customer .. (July, 2015) (Article by Ilya Kramnik)

Russian Su-35 Fighter Jet Sees Export Orders Soar

4.Sputnik International quotes Russia's deputy foreign minister, reporting that he said that they were in talks with the Pakistani counter parts regarding the delivery of Mi-35 and SU-35. (September 2015)

Russia-Pakistan Military Cooperation Not Threatening Relations With India

5. This is when the whole commotion starts, with different blogs, websites etc. posting their take on the development, this also happens to be the time frame when that tweet from that journalist came along and a similar tweet from an Indian journalist came along who was claiming that Russian embassy has rejected such reports ... You can find it all on google as quoting all of those sources will take alot of time... but this is the crux of what happened after the news broke ...

6. The only official word that is actually reported that was supposedly against this news was reported by many Indian based websites ... yet I have not found sites with the repute of Janes or sputnik reporting it ... however even in the report itself there is no solid negation of the whole deal as it only says that Russia won't take any step detrimental to India's security ... (September 2015)

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News

7. The confirmation of the talks from the Pakistani side came along when Janes confirmed it ..

Pakistani official confirms Su-35 talks - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Ind4Ever]

I have found it more or less ... and there was a reason why this "source" was deleted .. It was because it was a journalist who was supposedly citing a PAF official ...not on a published article .. but his twitter ... and the tweet was posted on here by an Indian friend who created an entire thread on it ... if Im not mistaken ...

In the events that followed, He was called out by defence.pk .. to which his response was that he talked to a paf official .. regarding this news ... Unsurprisingly ... no further comments ever came from his side after the Janes published a piece in which they cited a PAF official saying that talks were on for SU-35 ...

So its the credibility of a journalist whom we've never even heard from ... versus the credibility of Janes ... one of the most reputed and credible source of information in the defense industry ... you can take your pick ....

Like wise that journo had PAF source Janes had one. This entire deal is like wishy washy. It looks like PAF doing its favour for the Russians for good relationship between both the countries. Because this deal will bring more harm to each other than good deeds. . As I said it's too early to call the shots. And can you provide source for Russians for su35 in 2014 ? Because as far as I good gather information on this I would confidentiality say it's China who is calling the shots for Pakistan but Russians refused by saying we will look in to it .

See am not saying it's impossible for a Go ahead call but for what ? PAF don't have sufficient capital fund for procurement even though Chinese made some deal over something else with Pakistan will Pakistan take the impact of maintaining 2 engine heavy aircraft which is a fuel guzzlers for sure . It like operating another 60 F16. That too when your enemy is well-known every single aspect of the weapon system . That's on PAF call so I could restrict myself to comment on that.

But as a whole something is not adding up so let's wait and watch is gonna

And what's even more funny is Russian source which denied any sales quoting Russia won't do such thing which could underestimate Indias security. Now that article is also lost in the air. But I remember commenting on it. In our PAF... Very spooky ...

 

[Tameem]

SU35 in green colors is a way bigger thing than JF17....., issue have many dimensions and needs to discuss in death.
Therefore, instead of allowing one thread, Mods needs to in place a Special Section for SU35 related thread, just like JF17.

@Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Manticore

 

[Imran Khan]

lol but Chinese SU 35 ki raam katha has been going on longer than our MMRCA

in December we'll get some more clarity on the Russia - India defence relationship when Modi meets Putin, dekho...

one visit matter nothing in policy

 

[Irfan Baloch]

SU35 in green colors is a way bigger thing than JF17....., issue have many dimensions and needs to discuss in death.
Therefore, instead of allowing one thread, Mods needs to in place a Special Section for SU35 related thread, just like JF17.

@Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Manticore

lol that is true but this wont help the issue since the news came out originally the Indians are still creating threads telling us why this will never happen and why dont we understand that Indians dont care about this proposed sale.

 

[gau8av]

one visit matter nothing in policy

sure, but some speculation might be laid to rest if India decide to order few squadrons SU 35 to complete the 272 figure from the current 200 MKI

+ scale up the FGFA order numbers

+ more

ye ladaku-havai jahaz aapko nahi milega !

 

[Ind4Ever]

I have found it more or less ... and there was a reason why this "source" was deleted .. It was because it was a journalist who was supposedly citing a PAF official ...not on a published article .. but his twitter ... and the tweet was posted on here by an Indian friend who created an entire thread on it ... if Im not mistaken ...

In the events that followed, He was called out by defence.pk .. to which his response was that he talked to a paf official .. regarding this news ... Unsurprisingly ... no further comments ever came from his side after the Janes published a piece in which they cited a PAF official saying that talks were on for SU-35 ...

So its the credibility of a journalist whom we've never even heard from ... versus the credibility of Janes ... one of the most reputed and credible source of information in the defense industry ... you can take your pick ....

Lastly, regarding the series of events you posted ... they are quite off ...

1. Originally after the MMRCA, there were suggestions to the Russian administration, that they should try and sell the Mig-35 that India rejected to Pakistan ... (2011)

Russia Experts Says Russia Could Sell Mig-35 Fighter Jets To Pakistan - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

2.Rumors of Pakistan being interested in SU-35 have swirled around .... (2012)

Is PAF going to get 24 Su-35 fighter?

3. Sputnik international reported regarding the SU-35 and its exports in which Pakistan was reported as a potential customer .. (July, 2015) (Article by Ilya Kramnik)

Russian Su-35 Fighter Jet Sees Export Orders Soar

4.Sputnik International quotes Russia's deputy foreign minister, reporting that he said that they were in talks with the Pakistani counter parts regarding the delivery of Mi-35 and SU-35. (September 2015)

Russia-Pakistan Military Cooperation Not Threatening Relations With India

5. This is when the whole commotion starts, with different blogs, websites etc. posting their take on the development, this also happens to be the time frame when that tweet from that journalist came along and a similar tweet from an Indian journalist came along who was claiming that Russian embassy has rejected such reports ... You can find it all on google as quoting all of those sources will take alot of time... but this is the crux of what happened after the news broke ...

6. The only official word that is actually reported that was supposedly against this news was reported by many Indian based websites ... yet I have not found sites with the repute of Janes or sputnik reporting it ... however even in the report itself there is no solid negation of the whole deal as it only says that Russia won't take any step detrimental to India's security ... (September 2015)

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News

7. The confirmation of the talks from the Pakistani side came along when Janes confirmed it ..

Pakistani official confirms Su-35 talks - IHS Jane's 360

Thanks for the article brother my point on Russian denial was based on this !

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia
Last Updated: Thursday, September 10, 2015 - 23:54
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New Delhi: Russia on Thursday said that it will never take any step detrimental to the security and safety of its special strategic partner India.
Russian Embassy here issued a statement in the backdrop of a report that said Russia and Pakistan were in talks on the delivery of Russian multirole Mi-35M attack helicopters and the latest Su-35 fighter jets.

"Time and again, the Russian leaders have stated at the highest level that Russia will never take any steps detrimental to the security and safety of our special and privileged strategic partner ? India, or the security structure in the South Asian region, or any other region for that matter," the statement said.

"This assurance is fully valid today as it was valid yesterday. This is the guideline of our President's foreign policy concept," it said.

"As regards the newspaper report from Nizhni Tagil, it is a sheer case of overstatement by the agency, on the one hand, and of overreaction by a section of the Indian media, - on the other," it added.

PTI

Source is from PTI even though zee published it.

It's too early to call shots. I still stick with my stand . We need to wait and watch it's more like warning from Russia for New ties with US and the rest of Nato

 

[MastanKhan]

babu jee its phase by phase . her koi MMRCA ka jhansa nhi deta bolo 200 or khareedo 36

Aur who bhee waiting list pay

 

[Ind4Ever]

PAF never denied and neither Russians denied it so stop distorting facts. We never asked for it Russians offered it than we considered them and now talks are going forward. Russia also offered MI-28 and three different Air Defence systems

Check my above quote. Source of Russian denying any 35 sales to Pakistan. My point 3) and at least my point 2 also at least published once before taking it down. Now where is your source of Russia proposing Pakistan it's Ufo fighter 35

 

[Pindi Boy]

Russia will never sell these birds to us

 

[gau8av]

the Indians are still creating threads telling us why this will never happen and why dont we understand that Indians dont care about this proposed sale.

I'm not sure about others, some here are indeed looking at going F 35 with the 'murricans but personally, random civvie me will be deeply butthurt to see Su 35 with PAF.

but sadly I have 0 say in how India plays the great game, none of us do actually, it's never a campaign issue, certainly not something anyone apart from us war nerds spend our time thinking about either.

so we'll just have to leave it to the wisdom of the foreign policy elites in south block, I think they're a smart bunch.. let's see.

but don't forget to tag me and rub some namak in my wounds if this happens.