Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[Tameem]

traditionally India have always maintained a neutral stance on global issues, US/Russia, Israel/Iran, Iran/Saudia, China/Japan..

Crimea, Diaoyu/Senkaku, Jerusalem, Shia/Sunni in the ME.. all these are not of concern to the people of India, and successive Indian administrations have reflected as much in their foreign policy approaches. It has worked good for us, for those feuding and warring parties have reciprocated and refused to get involved in matters of actual concern to India.. like Kashmir.

Russia are in a cold war again with the west now and India have outright refused to be part of any sanctions regime on Russia, and only temporarily scaled back oil purchases from Iran to help facilitate a nuclear deal.

"Russia want India to leave its independent rather US/west leaning approach and joins him in every step, just like USSR/Russia always supports India in her dire needs... 65, 71."

India don't have any beef with the west, why should they adopt an aggressive Russian poodle position and make enemies with people with whom there are good relations ? the US never "used" us like some in Pakistan seem to think they used them.

These are delicate matters, India is not a big global player, just a bit of regional power in South Asia.. but for what it's worth, last time Putin came around:


Crimean leader's visit to India with Putin angers West | Business Standard News
Anger as Crimean leader joins Putin’s delegation - The Scotsman
US 'troubled' by reports of Crimean leader visiting India with Vladimir Putin
India Questioned Over Crimean Leader’s Visit
The Moscow Times - News, Business, Culture & Multimedia from Russia

^anything more would be needlessly punching above our weight.

USSR/Russia almost went to War with US on behalf of India in 71 and on Russian Issues India's replies are....they are not over concerns....wow!!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

well i'm not asking about comparative.. I have ask simple question that India has su-30, mig-29, mirage 2000.. and from them PAF pilots has hands on Su-30 and M2k and i don't know about mig-29 that's why i have asked the question..
@Windjammer @ACE OF THE AIR @Irfan Baloch @Stealth @Foxtrot-Bravo

I do not understand exactly what you are trying to ask.

PAF knows that IAF flying the above mentioned aircraft hence it is ideal to exercise against these aircraft owned by friendly countries.
If you do search PDF you are going to find numerous threads regarding training exercises. PAF pilot fly and exercise against the PLAAF SU-30MKK and also against the J-11 series.

Where as UAE Mirrage 2000-5 are also used to train PAF pilots. These are the most advance ones.
Similarly Egyptian Air Force M2K's also provide PAF pilots enough training.

As far as training against Mig29's is concerned do not know exactly where PAF has been conduction training but in the past some aircraft were flown to evaluate these aircraft. Indonesia might be the place where PAF pilots flew and exercised against Mig-29.

The situation might change once PAF starts to exercise with the Russians....

PAF even sends PAF pilots to RAF where they train on the Eurofighter and in various exercise have been recorded with kills of EFT. KSA also provides training exercises against the EFT, F-15 and Tornado's.

Hope this is going to answer your questions.

 

[abdulbarijan]

I completely disagree. Because Denial was the last source from Russia. Please go through the dates of each articles. This all started before 10 th. And on 10 alleged PAF denial which was later conformed by PA k officials that too as what ? Discussion on su35 took place when the they met that's again before 10th and after Russian source .

All these new articles on based on Pakistan source . I don't know whether you got my point or not

I get your point, but I disagree on the basis of the following points:-

-The so called "denial" wasn't a denial to begin with, the news report which was not Russian, but an Indian media house quoting Russian Embassy in India stating that it would not take any steps that would be "detrimental to the security of India" -- leaving that part up for the beholder to translate and understand... what exactly encompasses "steps that might be detrimental to the security of India" -- To Russia with the IAF having 200+ SU-30 MKI ... selling 2-3 squadrons of SU-35 might not be "detrimental to the security of India" ...

-Secondly, at no point, did the statement from the Russian embassy negated that the reports on Sputnik quoting their Deputy FM were false ...

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News

Can you please provide where this report explicitly states that what sputnik reported was false or that the talks for SU-35 with Pakistan are not taking place ...

-Lastly, the IHS Janes report was the last report on the matter (18th September) which confirmed the talks from the Pakistani side, the Russian side has two quotes, both previously stated & linked ... where Ilya Kramink and the Deputy FM of Russia said that "Pakistan is a potential customer" and "talks are on" respectively..

 

[Trisonics]

The scenario is getting interesting and muddled every passing day. I think Russians have indeed decided to risk military sales to India owing to some trouble brewing between India and Russia on the PAK-FA, either they already foresee India ditching or reducing their sales of the PAK -FA or are using military sales to Pakistan as means to trap Indians on their terms. Add the current mess India has put herself into with depleting squadrons and delayed projects, Russia may see this as an opportunity to milk India of additional dollars.

Having said all that, Russia continues to create a conflict of interest for itself since any weapon sold to China is already less appealing to India. Additionally, sale of weapons to Pakistan will mean even fewer sales and a very angry India.

Furthermore, all is not well between China and Russia as its made out to be. Russia is in China's camp since it has no other options. It has also been burnt before with its designs copied but China has also become very self sufficient in design and development of fighter aircraft and Russia knows China is already competing in its market. Pakistan is an interesting case since it will still continue to see China as the better partner so the sale of weaponry to PAK is already challenged by its other partner and Pak can never ring its cash registers like India did.

At the end of the day, every country looks out for its own interests. In the Russian-China camp, China is already the dominating partner but also a competitor. Even for Russia India can be the country that keeps China busy or engaged so India still will remain important to Russia in the big game.

So does Russia not see all of this? IMHO it does and I feel Pakistan is being used as a bait for something it wants from India. My opinion, feel free to disagree.

 

[New World]

As far as training against Mig29's is concerned do not know exactly where PAF has been conduction training but in the past some aircraft were flown to evaluate these aircraft. Indonesia might be the place where PAF pilots flew and exercised against Mig-29.

this is what i want to know about mig-29..

 

[gau8av]

USSR/Russia almost went to War with US on behalf of India in 71 and on Russian Issues India's replies are....they are not over concerns....wow!!

haan yaar, bhot bada dhoka kar dia Roos ke saath Hinduo ne, ab roos mard e momin pakistani mulk se dosti kar ke India se badla lega.

 

[Tameem]

So does Russia not see all of this? IMHO it does and I feel Pakistan is being used as a bait for something it wants from India. My opinion, feel free to disagree.

For your theory to succeeds, Putin's Russia turns out to be a bluffer rather than a man of his words and a trust-able ally. An aspects it never labeled in past history ever.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

Shenyang FC-31 fighter performance 'leaked' online

Shenyang FC-31 fighter performance 'leaked' online

 

[Ind4Ever]

I get your point, but I disagree on the basis of the following points:-

-The so called "denial" wasn't a denial to begin with, the news report which was not Russian, but an Indian media house quoting Russian Embassy in India stating that it would not take any steps that would be "detrimental to the security of India" -- leaving that part up for the beholder to translate and understand... what exactly encompasses "steps that might be detrimental to the security of India" -- To Russia with the IAF having 200+ SU-30 MKI ... selling 2-3 squadrons of SU-35 might not be "detrimental to the security of India" ...

-Secondly, at no point, did the statement from the Russian embassy negated that the reports on Sputnik quoting their Deputy FM were false ...

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News

Can you please provide where this report explicitly states that what sputnik reported was false or that the talks for SU-35 with Pakistan are not taking place ...

-Lastly, the IHS Janes report was the last report on the matter (18th September) which confirmed the talks from the Pakistani side, the Russian side has two quotes, both previously stated & linked ... where Ilya Kramink and the Deputy FM of Russia said that "Pakistan is a potential customer" and "talks are on" respectively..

Brother you are very much carried away to begin with. If don't want to belive zee news an reputed Indian news media which actually posted what is said but be source of Press trust India which says Russian embassy saying so or what ever it up to u. Search what is PTI and reputation as you will come to know why you can trust them. I don't want to spoil your surprise here.

Secondly coming to your secondly point. I must say Russia on that interaction made it very clear . Read the article once again an the point the Russian embassy official stressed up on. That was the last response from Russia . Till now no other response.

Thirdly on your Thirdly point As they made their point very clear in my secondly point there is no need to keep replaying on articles keeps proping up on regular basis.

Fourthly my all Russians and Pakistani officials said was that talks took place.

Fifth to explain my Fourthly point here is my 5th and most important aspect. Which is I like quote as an example. Let's imagine Modi on his trip to us put an request to Obama . Requesting Sign and ICBM in one on one talks . Or even B2 bombers. They will discuss the point of view on both sides .

And later Modi or PMO source conforms of talks on b2 or SSGN or ICBM took place. Because it actually took place but without any conclusion. And this news writers goes bizarre on this news giving different kind of opinions here and there for their own business benefits isn't? So US will confirm the news that talks took place. And some ministers a say source of Mod leaks the details the talks are on. As diplomatic answers between high level delegations won't be No or Never.

This is what happened in su35 deal too. I will belive once Russian Mod or Pakistan MOD gives official statements. Till then it's gonna be very embarrassing for PAF as now what as created is insecurity of present capabilities as you already came to conclusion that you need su35 to take on superior IAF . This I belive really uncalled for . Russia won't lose 100 billions for 1 billion . And Pakistan won't be ready or practically impossible to spend huge chunk of its money into small fleet of su35 which won't make any difference against superior IAF with 270 MKI. Which is counter productive.


Still am not saying it's impossible AL am saying is its possibility is very thin and gain is very little but loss is huge for both. It don't make sense at all. May be China Wil arm twist Pakistan and pull diplomatic coup with Russians.

So I prefer to wait and watch

 

[Skywalker]

Call me. I lost my phone and with that all numbers.

Same here, wud ring u.

 

[batmannow]

be my guest

You are our guest now ,& I can bet you will be again when the moment will come ?

Brother you are very much carried away to begin with. If don't want to belive zee news an reputed Indian news media which actually posted what is said but be source of Press trust India which says Russian embassy saying so or what ever it up to u. Search what is PTI and reputation as you will come to know why you can trust them. I don't want to spoil your surprise here.

Secondly coming to your secondly point. I must say Russia on that interaction made it very clear . Read the article once again an the point the Russian embassy official stressed up on. That was the last response from Russia . Till now no other response.

Thirdly on your Thirdly point As they made their point very clear in my secondly point there is no need to keep replaying on articles keeps proping up on regular basis.

Fourthly my all Russians and Pakistani officials said was that talks took place.

Fifth to explain my Fourthly point here is my 5th and most important aspect. Which is I like quote as an example. Let's imagine Modi on his trip to us put an request to Obama . Requesting Sign and ICBM in one on one talks . Or even B2 bombers. They will discuss the point of view on both sides .

And later Modi or PMO source conforms of talks on b2 or SSGN or ICBM took place. Because it actually took place but without any conclusion. And this news writers goes bizarre on this news giving different kind of opinions here and there for their own business benefits isn't? So US will confirm the news that talks took place. And some ministers a say source of Mod leaks the details the talks are on. As diplomatic answers between high level delegations won't be No or Never.

This is what happened in su35 deal too. I will belive once Russian Mod or Pakistan MOD gives official statements. Till then it's gonna be very embarrassing for PAF as now what as created is insecurity of present capabilities as you already came to conclusion that you need su35 to take on superior IAF . This I belive really uncalled for . Russia won't lose 100 billions for 1 billion . And Pakistan won't be ready or practically impossible to spend huge chunk of its money into small fleet of su35 which won't make any difference against superior IAF with 270 MKI. Which is counter productive.


Still am not saying it's impossible AL am saying is its possibility is very thin and gain is very little but loss is huge for both. It don't make sense at all. May be China Wil arm twist Pakistan and pull diplomatic coup with Russians.

So I prefer to wait and watch

All of your post is no Pakistan will not get any of SUs from Russia & it will embrass Pakistan ?
That's the mind set all of Indians on PDF nothing new , why don't you guys just keep quite & wait for your turn instead of lecturing us?
Next time don't post at least ?lolzz
Just practice what you preach ?

 

[Khanivore]

check my previous comment

I don't need to, I was merely replying specifically to your post #2333 which was...

India should keep calm let them make their moves. It's time to test our diplomatic ties with the Russians . It's gonna be terrible mistake . We will move ahead as per our planned road map which is to alignment with the West and encircle Chinese asserts

And I'd like to enlighten you with a reminder that India is signing up to SCO next year. What does that mean for India, if anything? Well we'll see where India's loyalties lie.

 

[Ind4Ever]

You are our guest now ,& I can bet you will be again when the moment will come ?


All of your post is no Pakistan will not get any of SUs from Russia & it will embrass Pakistan ?
That's the mind set all of Indians on PDF nothing new , why don't you guys just keep quite & wait for your turn instead of lecturing us?
Next time don't post at least ?lolzz
Just practice what you preach ?

OK I don't want to intrupt your party . Pakistan is getting Su 35

I don't need to, I was merely replying specifically to your post #2333 which was...

And I'd like to enlighten you with a reminder that India is signing up to SCO next year. What does that mean for India, if anything? Well we'll see where India's loyalties lie.

How does it even matters for this topic?

 

[batmannow]

OK I don't want to intrupt your party . Pakistan is getting Su 35



How does it even matters for this topic?

Thanks keep enjoying with us ?lolzz

 

[Khanivore]

But check this
PAF denies SU-35 negotiations and contracts: Reuters Journalist

I can't find this source either which is weird it's now vanished .

I tried to find a Su-35 denial from PAF via Reuters journalist on google news. Nothing. Perhaps you know better how to find this denial?