Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[Side-Winder]

Enjoy

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153346709322663

 

[Ind4Ever]

I tried to find a Su-35 denial from PAF via Reuters journalist on google news. Nothing. Perhaps you know better how to find this denial?

Now read previous comments from where you left . That might help you . Am not gonna repeat it again and again. Su35 coming to Pakistan ... Will this make you happy?

Enjoy

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153346709322663

Yo was is it?

Thanks keep enjoying with us ?lolzz

You too. Rock on brother. It's party time

 

[Khanivore]

How does it even matters for this topic?

Are you feeling OK? Sounds like you're so overworked on this Su-35 issue that you failed to see that my SCO comment was in reply to your post #2333: see below

India should keep calm let them make their moves. It's time to test our diplomatic ties with the Russians . It's gonna be terrible mistake . We will move ahead as per our planned road map which is to alignment with the West and encircle Chinese asserts

Now read previous comments from where you left . That might help you . Am not gonna repeat it again and again. Su35 coming to Pakistan ... Will this make you happy?

You said the source is lost. Why all the jibber jabber then?

 

[Ind4Ever]

Are you feeling OK? Sounds like you're so overworked on this Su-35 issue that you failed to see that my SCO comment was in reply to your post #2333: see below



You said the source is lost. Why all the jibber jabber then?

I got your point but I still don't get it. How it's even connected to this deal ?

Please explain

Are you feeling OK? Sounds like you're so overworked on this Su-35 issue that you failed to see that my SCO comment was in reply to your post #2333: see below



You said the source is lost. Why all the jibber jabber then?

I got your point but I still don't get it. How it's even connected to this deal ?

Please explain

Are you feeling OK? Sounds like you're so overworked on this Su-35 issue that you failed to see that my SCO comment was in reply to your post #2333: see below



You said the source is lost. Why all the jibber jabber then?

No thanks to the chap here. Now I got it.

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News
On my point 3 and on point 2 u need to check others comments aswell

 

[Khanivore]

I got your point but I still don't get it. How it's even connected to this deal ?

Please explain

I got your point but I still don't get it. How it's even connected to this deal ?

Please explain

Are you trolling?

You made an off-topic comment and now you're questioning me about my reply? Let me once again remind you:

India should keep calm let them make their moves. It's time to test our diplomatic ties with the Russians . It's gonna be terrible mistake . We will move ahead as per our planned road map which is to alignment with the West and encircle Chinese asserts

India will align with the West and encircle China, as "per plan", according to you. My reply was to remind of India's upcoming SCO membership. Do you know what SCO is? Do you understand me?

Stick with what you said and cut with the stupid response "How it's even connected to this deal ?".

@Icarus @Oscar @waz

 

[Ind4Ever]

Are you trolling?

You made an off-topic comment and now you're questioning me about my reply? Let me once again remind you:

Are u serious ? Who went off topic . It's you who is bringing in SCO into su35,paf thread. I don't even wanted to reply on SCO off topic. Even now

India will align with the West and encircle China, as "per plan", according to you. My reply was to remind of India's upcoming SCO membership. Do you know what SCO is? Do you understand me?

Stick with what you said and cut with the stupid response "How it's even connected to this deal ?".

@Icarus @Oscar @waz

Dude I explained possibility to sell su35 to Pakistan by Russia. Is it not connected with this ? Are u even aware Russia and India are allies?

 

[abdulbarijan]

Brother you are very much carried away to begin with. If don't want to belive zee news an reputed Indian news media which actually posted what is said but be source of Press trust India which says Russian embassy saying so or what ever it up to u. Search what is PTI and reputation as you will come to know why you can trust them. I don't want to spoil your surprise here.

Secondly coming to your secondly point. I must say Russia on that interaction made it very clear . Read the article once again an the point the Russian embassy official stressed up on. That was the last response from Russia . Till now no other response.

Thirdly on your Thirdly point As they made their point very clear in my secondly point there is no need to keep replaying on articles keeps proping up on regular basis.

Fourthly my all Russians and Pakistani officials said was that talks took place.

Fifth to explain my Fourthly point here is my 5th and most important aspect. Which is I like quote as an example. Let's imagine Modi on his trip to us put an request to Obama . Requesting Sign and ICBM in one on one talks . Or even B2 bombers. They will discuss the point of view on both sides .

And later Modi or PMO source conforms of talks on b2 or SSGN or ICBM took place. Because it actually took place but without any conclusion. And this news writers goes bizarre on this news giving different kind of opinions here and there for their own business benefits isn't? So US will confirm the news that talks took place. And some ministers a say source of Mod leaks the details the talks are on. As diplomatic answers between high level delegations won't be No or Never.

This is what happened in su35 deal too. I will belive once Russian Mod or Pakistan MOD gives official statements. Till then it's gonna be very embarrassing for PAF as now what as created is insecurity of present capabilities as you already came to conclusion that you need su35 to take on superior IAF . This I belive really uncalled for . Russia won't lose 100 billions for 1 billion . And Pakistan won't be ready or practically impossible to spend huge chunk of its money into small fleet of su35 which won't make any difference against superior IAF with 270 MKI. Which is counter productive.


Still am not saying it's impossible AL am saying is its possibility is very thin and gain is very little but loss is huge for both. It don't make sense at all. May be China Wil arm twist Pakistan and pull diplomatic coup with Russians.

So I prefer to wait and watch

Interesting points ... however ... I already knew of PTI being the main reporter here .. however the report never made it to any defense related news outlet or a trusted journal like say Sputnik or Janes .. Wouldn't it be headline news that Russia officially denies the whole SU-35 fiasco ... yet no news like that came out ... even the one quoted by you as a defense is a vague statement which can be interpreted in many ways as I have shown you previously ...

-Your entire case is that Russia is not willing to sell Pakistan the SU-35 based on your news which never even puts it in explicit terms ... while the other side has 2 different sources (Janes/Sputnik) with a niche in defense with international repute saying the exact opposite quoting from the potential customer and the potential supplier ...

The other point you bring up right here is that because the Russian's so called "last response" was that they will not take any steps detrimental to Indian security ... hence that means Russia is not willing to give the super flanker to Pakistan ... but it is worth while to mention here that the news of Sputnik (which reported that Pakistan is in talks with Russia for SU-35) said that the cooperation between Pakistan and Russia will not be threatening relations with India ...

Again ... how many defense based websites quoted that piece of Indian media except a few Indian defense forums .. I haven't seen Janes quoting it .. neither have I seen Sputnik quoting it ... Infact, regarding your point of "diplomats will never say no" ... let me refresh your memory where in 2012 the same "Press Trust of India" was quoting the Deputy Prime minister as saying ;

"You must understand that we do not deal with your enemies. We don't deliver any arms to them.... If you see otherwise, you may spit on my face," Rogozin told reporters here when asked if Russia would supply arms to Pakistan."


lets look today then,

-confirmed deal of MI-35's
-talks of Pakistan being a potential customer of SU-35
-Pakistan now directly importing RD-93 from Russia
-PAF being offered J-10B with the AL-31 ...

Bottom line ... should people trust Indian news which has been proven wrong before ... over Janes or Sputnik which are of international repute and are arguably the best in the niche of defense magazines/journals etc. The so called denial wasn't even worth mentioning in the follow up article of Sputnik which instead went and reported what Janes did with the PAF official confirming the talks ...

So if you want to prove your point .. you will have to prove that PTI is much more credible then Janes or Sputnik International ... and that too in defense dealings ...

 

[Khanivore]

No thanks to the chap here. Now I got it.

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News
On my point 3 and on point 2 u need to check others comments aswell

That's not Reuters and nor is it PAF's denial regarding Su-35 which you specifically referred to. You're beating around the bush and are avoiding to backup your original claim. By the way, remember the "spit on my face" comment by the Russian official? Here's some reading for you: "spit on my face"

 

[Ind4Ever]

Are you trolling?

You made an off-topic comment and now you're questioning me about my reply? Let me once again remind you:

Are u serious ? Who went off topic . It's you who is bringing in SCO into su35,paf thread. I don't even wanted to reply on SCO off topic. Even now

India will align with the West and encircle China, as "per plan", according to you. My reply was to remind of India's upcoming SCO membership. Do you know what SCO is? Do you understand me?

Stick with what you said and cut with the stupid response "How it's even connected to this deal ?".

@Icarus @Oscar @waz

Dude I explained possibility to sell su35 to Pakistan by Russia. Is it not connected with this ? Are u even aware Russia and India are allie

That's not Reuters and nor is it PAF's denial regarding Su-3

5 which you specifically referred to. You're beating around the bush and are avoiding to backup your original claim. By the way, remember the "spit on my face" comment by the Russian official? Here's some reading for you: "spit on my face"

Last Russian response

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News

Rest I explained my position already

 

[Khanivore]

Are u serious ? Who went off topic . It's you who is bringing in SCO into su35,paf thread. I don't even wanted to reply on SCO off topic. Even now

Dude I explained possibility to sell su35 to Pakistan by Russia. Is it not connected with this ? Are u even aware Russia and India are allies?

Are you even aware of your post #2333 ?

India should keep calm let them make their moves. It's time to test our diplomatic ties with the Russians . It's gonna be terrible mistake . We will move ahead as per our planned road map which is to alignment with the West and encircle Chinese asserts

You are seriously pushing it.

Last Russian response

Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia | Zee News

Rest I explained my position already

Not worth its salt. The Russians never kept their word! RD-93s and Mi-35s happened with more to come!

 

[monitor]

Pakistan-Russia talks on delivery of Su-35 jets underway

• Agencies
• September 21, 2015
• Be First To Comment

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Pakistan and Russia are in the process of negotiating the ‘largest defence deal’ between the two countries.


“The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has discussed buying Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets from Russia, but a final decision is yet to be announced,” the HIS said, according to a senior government official.


The senior government official’s remarks come in the wake of Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s and a recent agreement for provision of Mi-35M Hind E helicopters to Pakistan.


“It is too early to say if a deal will conclude and the terms,” the official said highlighting Russia’s willingness to sell advanced military hardware to Pakistan.


“Pakistan’s interest in the Su-35 was driven by the PAF’s need for a twin-engine fighter that can fly for a longer range than the JF-17 and penetrate more deeply into the enemy’s territory,’ the official revealed.


Pakistan currently relies on a mixed fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s, Dassault Mirage-5s, Chinese manufactured F-7s and the JF-17 Thunder, which is co-manufactured by Pakistan and China.


Last month, Russia agreed to sell state-of-the-art Mi-35 attack helicopters to Pakistan in what is seen as a ‘paradigm shift’ in Moscow’s policy to increase defence cooperation between the two countries.


“An agreement was signed between Pakistan and Russian authorities in Rawalpindi for the purchase of four Mi-35 helicopters,” a senior military official had said on the condition of anonymity.


Moscow for long ignored Islamabad in a bid to please its long-term ally New Delhi. But as a result of India’s growing tilt towards United States, Russia has now started expanding its cooperation with Pakistan.


For its part, Islamabad is eager to improve its ties with Moscow to diversify its options in the event of any stalemate in ties with Washington.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Are you even aware of your post #2333 ?

You are seriously pushing it.


Not worth its salt. The Russians never kept their word! RD-93s and Mi-35s happened with more to come!

If that makes you feel better then go along with it and enjoy mate. That's the way to for Hakuna Matata.

1)I still don't get it what SCO has to do with su35 sales

2) yes of course it's a open secret India will go ahead with west to corner Chinese aggression. If you think it's silly. Then so be it . Who cares

3) That's upto Russia to sell su35 or not no matter what you want from them.

Case closed . I as a reasonable person will wait and see . No one know what will happen. All I can say is on what I see

Pakistan-Russia talks on delivery of Su-35 jets underway

• Agencies
• September 21, 2015
• Be First To Comment

Tweet

Pakistan and Russia are in the process of negotiating the ‘largest defence deal’ between the two countries.


“The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has discussed buying Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets from Russia, but a final decision is yet to be announced,” the HIS said, according to a senior government official.


The senior government official’s remarks come in the wake of Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s and a recent agreement for provision of Mi-35M Hind E helicopters to Pakistan.


“It is too early to say if a deal will conclude and the terms,” the official said highlighting Russia’s willingness to sell advanced military hardware to Pakistan.


“Pakistan’s interest in the Su-35 was driven by the PAF’s need for a twin-engine fighter that can fly for a longer range than the JF-17 and penetrate more deeply into the enemy’s territory,’ the official revealed.


Pakistan currently relies on a mixed fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s, Dassault Mirage-5s, Chinese manufactured F-7s and the JF-17 Thunder, which is co-manufactured by Pakistan and China.


Last month, Russia agreed to sell state-of-the-art Mi-35 attack helicopters to Pakistan in what is seen as a ‘paradigm shift’ in Moscow’s policy to increase defence cooperation between the two countries.


“An agreement was signed between Pakistan and Russian authorities in Rawalpindi for the purchase of four Mi-35 helicopters,” a senior military official had said on the condition of anonymity.


Moscow for long ignored Islamabad in a bid to please its long-term ally New Delhi. But as a result of India’s growing tilt towards United States, Russia has now started expanding its cooperation with Pakistan.


For its part, Islamabad is eager to improve its ties with Moscow to diversify its options in the event of any stalemate in ties with Washington.

“It is too early to say if a deal will conclude and the terms,” the official said highlighting Russia’s willingness to sell advanced military hardware to Pakistan.


“Pakistan’s interest in the Su-35 was driven by the PAF’s need for a twin-engine fighter that can fly for a longer range than the JF-17 and penetrate more deeply into the enemy’s territory,’ the official revealed.


Case closed. Another article in same rumours. Russia says it's not sure.

Pakistan says it wants it

So Russia offered su35 or insisting to buy 35 is shattered .

Wise thing is to wait band watch as India's power play is not mentioned and Russias policy plan is up to them . As an Indian I reject it or even condemn it if sale happen. It's clear back stabbing by our trusted friend it's not a secret. I said summed it up I think

 

[monitor]

Wise thing is to wait band watch as India's power play is not mentioned and Russias policy plan is up to them . As an Indian I reject it or even condemn it if sale happen. It's clear back stabbing by our trusted friend it's not a secret. I said summed it up I think

you are getting more advance pakfa and upgrading already a deadly beast SU-30mki so here nothing back stabbing . infact you back stab or make them annoyed by rejecting them in mmrca and attack heli deal then why you condemn the deal . if you can reject a 40 year old friend then why that friend can't sell few advance weapons to Pakistan ?

 

[That Guy]

@mods please let Mr that guy become the UN secretary general ?lolzz
Sure , I'm wrong & the forum is wrong & the whole world is wrong ?lolzz
Right Mr always right ?

No, only you. Most people on this forum find you ridiculous, and disagree with you.

 

[monitor]

Russia eases weapons policy for Pakistan
By Z...
News on Monday June 2 that Russia will ease its informal restrictions on selling Pakistan defence equipment is to be welcomed, as is the news that this may mean acquisition of the Mi-35 Hind. It is perhaps a result of the Russian reaction to the crises in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine, where it has responded by adopting a more pragmatic foreign policy in which it appears Pakistan cannot be ignored.

It is uncertain if this will mean a totally balanced Russian relationship with India (its erstwhile South Asian strategic partner) and Pakistan. That is probably not the case, but it likely means an end to the days when India was able to blackmail Russia into not supplying defence equipment to Pakistan. India is actively seeking to diversify away from a reliance on Russian arms, and though this may or may not be successful, a string of Indian defence deals with Western and Israeli companies at the expense of Russian ones means Moscow is less inclined to be swayed by Indian pressure. This is despite Indo-Russian defence collaboration projects such as PAKFA for which India is still the main financer. Indo-Russian defence collaboration is therefore likely to remain reasonably strong regardless of developments with Pakistan.

It is important to clarify that there was no formal embargo as such on the sale of Russian defence equipment to Pakistan, as direct sales of Mi-17 Hip helicopters, and indirect sales of Klimov RD-93 engines were previously made. However, there was reluctance to sell certain types of weaponry, so enquiries made by former COAS Gen Pervez Kayani for the sale of Mi-35s was neither accepted nor declined. At the time Pakistan was looking replace or supplement its aging Cobra fleet, and aimed to acquire the Turkish T129 (if onward supply of the US engines was cleared), or the AH-1Z (depending on Congressional approval). Sale of a more advanced Russian helicopter such as the Mi-28 Havoc may not have been forthcoming therefore, but the Mi-35 in the support role and especially for COIN and support of the special forces in COIN operations may have been less controversial for the Russians to have agreed to. With the change in policy, this deal may now go through. In this context whether the small number of grounded Mi-35s in Pakistan will be returned to service is unknown, but it has been an option that has been previously explored even if nothing resulted from it to date.

Russian defence equipment may not be as capable as some western equivalents, but it is robust, simple enough to operate, and more affordable, both to acquire and to support. Russian approval for defence sales may also help with Sino-Pakistani defence co-operation particularly in clearing the supply of Russian origin sub-systems in Chinese weapon systems. Therefore Pakistan may hope to directly purchase defence equipment such the Pantsir-S1 air defence system, RPG-29 anti-tank weapons (that could possibly be produced under license), and perhaps more Mi-17s. Indirect sales could namely be of the Saturn Al-31F turbofan that powers the FC-20 variant of the Chengdu J-10B that Pakistan may or may not acquire from China.

It is probable therefore that despite the very favourable Sino-Pakistani defence co-operation, Pakistan may look to Russia to acquire defence systems that China is not yet capable or ready of supplying even if the deals may not be very lucrative for Moscow.
credit to pakdef