Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[ni8mare]

Hey look, surprise, surprise, getting invited to another flamed topic!!! Am I really surprised? No. Its part of my daily life here with my Indian not so close friends .

By the way, I don't attack anyone FIRST. In fact, if I hated India and Indians SO MUCH, I don't know why I'd write post in India's favor. I write the truth and give credit to where it deserves. Anyway, the key to avoid me getting personal is to avoid getting personnel with me to begin with. Let the readers be the judge.]

Ohhhh such a holier than thou act ...

don't lie you have been continuously a bashing Hinduism ......even if any one attacks you still you no needed to bash Hinduism here ....which you do

By the way, Yoga is an excellent mind-body exercise. I am all for it, don't care which religion claims it or culture wants to put their name on it.

Yoga is like Humus , the Arabs say its theirs, the Greek say its theirs and the Israeli's say its theirs. I just love having it, don't care about the drama. Same for Yoga. Good for people who practice it

but then people need to respect it ......rather than using it for point scoring because it related to Hinduism
(yoga point is not pointed to ward you )

Yes with new config allowing brahmos to be integrated its a good sub.. But that's not going to win them the contract as i believe there are other subs where brahmos can be integrated (correct me if wong) If russians can blackmail us in this way so can we... If Russians can take revenge on us becasue they lost MMRCA then why do you think it'll stop us from doing the same.. and the thing is it'll not be a revenge but a reminder becasue we've so much more contracts to offer.

Ah-17 is not a threat to us and US will not see Pakistan any new advanced fighters.

the cost of NG SUB deal is 11 BN$........looks like if Su-35 goes through they are gonna loose it

 

[nadeemkhan110]

True..........

lets say pak gets SU-35 ...then what should be india' reaction to it millitary?

India will stay silent, India will not show any reaction
because Its Russia not Maldives

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What diplomatic rift ,
when India was purchasing weapons

a) Transport planes
b) Submarine hunters
c) Anti ship weapons
d) Missiles
e) AWACs
f) Rafale
g) Nuclear deal , nuclear fuel secrets

Did Russia cause a "RIFT" no russians simply observed and remained quiet

So what is the problem with Banya mentality ?

Hum Khain to Halwa , tum khao to Haram !!!

Meanwhile when Russia , bought a Helicopter carriers , it was sanctioned !!! Why did India not return all the weapons it had

 

[ni8mare]

India will stay silent whey will not show any reaction
because Its Russia not Maldives

are.......i am saying what should be India's next step to neutralize those SU-35......now don't come up with terrorist attacking air base theory..

 

[karan.1970]

I think the whole thing is over hyped. The world is more and more of an open market and barring really cutting edge technology (which neither India nor Pakistan is currently aiming for), most of the other stuff is commoditized. Denial of technology is no longer an option. Its more like who can afford what and who wants what in its strategic arsenal. That's why you have Russia selling to Pakistan, USA selling to India and what not.

 

[nangyale]

the cost of NG SUB deal is 11 BN$........looks like if Su-35 goes through they are gonna loose it

What makes you say that?
Did anybody in the Indian establishment said anything to that effect?

Also which deals you are cancelling with the US, since they have decided to sell AH-1Z's to Pak?

 

[mikkix]

Pakistan is way behind endia just because of our idiot military establishment who played hide and seek against politicians from early 90's till 2000. They fucking wasted a decade and now crying like sissies. Now it requires 2 decades to come closer against endia. Reality is bitter.
Pakistan needs allies and some excellent strategic policies to counter endia now.

 

[dadeechi]

Russia at least has won over France on this forum. No one wants to talk about Rafale any more. SU-35 is the new kid on the block which everyone is interested in now.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

View attachment 258531

Optimism : MMRCA RFP Released

Excitement : FGFA Design Contract signed

Thrill : Typhoon & Rafale short listed

Euphoria : Rafale announced as winner

Anxiety : FGFA downsized from 200 to 144

Denial : Rafale is too costly with no TOT

Fear : Prolonged negotiations for Rafale

Desperation : Cancel MMRCA RFP. Decide to buy 36 Rafale off the shelf

Panic : News of Russian sale of SU-35 to Pakistan

till now fgfa is just a new design that's it
now look at f-35 most expensive 5th gen jet
Air Force Admits: Our New Stealth Fighter Can’t Fight
Air Force Admits: Our New Stealth Fighter Can’t Fight - The Daily Beast

 

[Shariq786]

No... We'll give sub deal to someone else... russia looses 8-10 billion which they can't afford to.. then there're plenty to come, if they want they have to change their mindset... we've so much option to buy but they don't have so much options to sell... India can never be replaced by Pakistan in defence purchase.

and you'll give that contract to who US or France or EU as we all know its either Europe or US and both know that if you leave Russia you won't have an 2nd option like you did with RAFALE although you still got screwed by the French... NOW just imagine what will happen if you totally rely on them by leaving Russia because they know you need those capabilities like hell because your trying to match China they will make you guys there puppets which they wanted to do for a long time a puppet in Asia.... tried it with Pakistan but we came out of it somehow but you won't be able to because after Russia its either CHINA, EU or US ... CHINA won't sell you a hand gun so its either US or EU they'll milk each penny out of your pockets you'll have to go by them as you will have no other options and they'll make a mercenary out of you guys by making you against Pak-China-Russia nexus in Asia ... And we all know there is nothing without strings when you rely on Uncle SAM

Face the facts first and then post about you having upper hand in INDO-Russia relationship i have read alot of comments like that over here and can't bear it any more but still if you guys have counter arguments please put it forward TY

and i still didn't even mentioned you airforce totally being Russian if they say ok you guys and go F yourself and stop sending spares as well do you think you guys would be able to replace each of your fighter jet (although you won't be able to maintain it as well but still) even in a decade by buying them from UNCLE SAM or EU by totally relying on them ??

And don't worry about Russian economy the day you guys leave Russia Chinese will pull them up in every field and even they'll get access to warm waters through Pak so they won't miss you guys that much as much as you'll miss them my friend its like Russia loosing 70 Billion Dollars and gaining lets just say including PAK and CHINA 20 billion along with INDIA lossing everything it worked for from the start meaning being a superpower of Asia along side with CHINA......

 

[$@rJen]

What diplomatic rift ,
when India was purchasing weapons

a) Transport planes
b) Submarine hunters
c) Anti ship weapons
d) Missiles
e) AWACs
f) Rafale
g) Nuclear deal , nuclear fuel secrets

Did Russia cause a "RIFT" no russians simply observed and remained quiet

So what is the problem with Banya mentality ?

Hum Khain to Halwal , tum khao to Haram !!!

Meanwhile when Russia , bought a Helicopter carriers , it was sanctioned !!! Why did India not return all the weapons it had

Because no sane person will put everything in One basket...
A) As for transport plane.. we're co-developing one with Russia
B) Russia doesn't have anything new to offer
C) Main anti-ship missile in our inventory are Russians niw all are being replaced with Brahmos which is co-developed with Russians
D) Which missiles?? if you're talking about for the fighters then we've the russian ones on the russian platform.. other missiles are developed by DRDO and for western fighter we've western missiles. they don't allow russian ones
E) Awac's platform is Russian
F) Their fighter plane failed in the evaluation
G) Russians top in Nuclear deal with us than US.. we alowed US to get the pressure off of for not signing NPT

i didn't get the bold part.. can you explain???

and you'll give that contract to who US or France or EU as we all know its either Europe or US and both know that if you leave Russia you won't have an 2nd option like you did with RAFALE although you still got screwed by the French...

What are the 2nd option do Russians have if they want to loose the Indian Market??? Tell me how did France screw us??

NOW just imagine what will happen if you totally rely on them by leaving Russia because they know you need those capabilities like hell because your trying to match China they will make you guys there puppets which they wanted to do for a long time a puppet in Asia...

Nobody is relying on the west.. I told India will give the deal to EU countries to remind we mean business. there are many other deals to be given to russia, they're not fools to let us go completely, if we're off then Russians Economy is comletly Screwed not the other way around

Face the facts first and then post about you having upper hand in INDO-Russia relationship i have read alot of comments like that over here and can't bear it any more but still if you guys have counter arguments please put it forward TY

No the problem is you're seeing this from one side....

Russians are just reminding that they have another option which is very poor... Again Pakistani market never take the place of Indian one. And we have option and we know how to play on that.... we don't buy weapons from a single vender and fall prey to them... but Russia doesn't have that luxury. we're their top import partner they can never afford to loose us. all thsi su-35 is pressure tactics the same way they did in end of 90's.. we wne to French market then they started to tell about selling Su-27 to Pakistan.. then India had to bu mig-29 later su-30 to keep them calm.

this is the same game is being played.. once Modi goes and sign the agreement for fgfa and upgrading mki deal then promise to give them the sub deal the talks of su-35 will never surface again.

and i still didn't even mentioned you airforce totally being Russian if they say ok you guys and go F yourself and stop sending spares as well do you think you guys would be able to replace each of your fighter jet (although you won't be able to maintain it as well but still) even in a decade by buying them from UNCLE SAM or EU by totally relying on them ??

Highly unlikely scenario.. take my previous reply for this too

And don't worry about Russian economy the day you guys leave Russia Chinese will pull them up in every field and even they'll get access to warm waters through Pak so they won't miss you guys that much as much as you'll miss them my friend its like Russia loosing 70 Billion Dollars and gaining lets just say including PAK and CHINA 20 billion along with INDIA lossing everything it worked for from the start meaning being a superpower of Asia along side with CHINA......

 

[Shariq786]

What are the 2nd option do Russians have if they want to loose the Indian Market??? Tell me how did France screw us??



Nobody is relying on the west.. I told India will give the deal to EU countries to remind we mean business. there are many other deals to be given to russia, they're not fools to let us go completely, if we're off then Russians Economy is comletly Screwed not the other way around

you tell me what is the 2nd Option you have after Russia meaning getting everything without strings ??? And how French screwed you ??? Remember MMRCA deal which included TOT 120 Jets and training with the Price tag of 10 to 15 Billion $ max ?? Now only 36 Jets no TOT and Price TAG half like around 7 to 8 Billion $ ??

You are dodging the ques Dude i m asking you can you afford to loose or remove all the future military plans with Russia can you afford it if Russia do the same with you ??

Ok let me give you a scenario in this INDIA says no to Russia on future military plans Russia does the same and says no more military stuff to you guys you break economic ties as well with Russia .. China see Russia Falling and grab the opportunity to get another brother state like PAK by offering them different economic messures Russia declines but get some support from CHINA and still gets up CHINA gains another partner which is cut out from the world and totally relying on them for the economic reasons like PAK on the other Side your military your navy your airforce which totally rellies on Russia gets a big hit with no more spares or future procuments comming without strings any more you have to replace your front line fighters on emergency basis need 2nd strike capabilties and sub on emergency basis need new tanks on emergency basis because you cannot maintain all that stuff even for a decade without Russian spares do you think you can do all that with your current economy in a Decade and from where will you get those stuff from EU and you think EU will make such decision on its own Without Uncle SAM you'll Die with them my friend

 

[dadeechi]

and you'll give that contract to who US or France or EU as we all know its either Europe or US and both know that if you leave Russia you won't have an 2nd option like you did with RAFALE although you still got screwed by the French... NOW just imagine what will happen if you totally rely on them by leaving Russia because they know you need those capabilities like hell because your trying to match China they will make you guys there puppets which they wanted to do for a long time a puppet in Asia.... tried it with Pakistan but we came out of it somehow but you won't be able to because after Russia its either CHINA, EU or US ... CHINA won't sell you a hand gun so its either US or EU they'll milk each penny out of your pockets you'll have to go by them as you will have no other options and they'll make a mercenary out of you guys by making you against Pak-China-Russia nexus in Asia ... And we all know there is nothing without strings when you rely on Uncle SAM

Face the facts first and then post about you having upper hand in INDO-Russia relationship i have read alot of comments like that over here and can't bear it any more but still if you guys have counter arguments please put it forward TY

and i still didn't even mentioned you airforce totally being Russian if they say ok you guys and go F yourself and stop sending spares as well do you think you guys would be able to replace each of your fighter jet (although you won't be able to maintain it as well but still) even in a decade by buying them from UNCLE SAM or EU by totally relying on them ??

And don't worry about Russian economy the day you guys leave Russia Chinese will pull them up in every field and even they'll get access to warm waters through Pak so they won't miss you guys that much as much as you'll miss them my friend its like Russia loosing 70 Billion Dollars and gaining lets just say including PAK and CHINA 20 billion along with INDIA lossing everything it worked for from the start meaning being a superpower of Asia along side with CHINA......

It's very important to understand the difference in thinking between West vs Russia-China

Coming from Capitalistic mindset, West dispassionately implement their policies based on Economics (and Religion to some extent. Like not allowing Turkey into EU). They could drop their so called allies at a drop of a hat or make one from their so called enemies. The phrase "There are permanent friends or enemies" perfectly fits the West.

While on the other hand Russia-China, coming from communistic mindset, implement their policies based on sharing and to carry everyone along. USSR did Business with India in Rupees while China passionately supported Pakistan even when they themselves were not very strong economically.

When it comes to sharing critical technologies no country in West comes close to Russia-China.

 

[Shariq786]

It's very important to understand the difference in thinking between West vs Russia-China

Coming from Capitalistic mindset, West dispassionately implement their policies based on Economics (and Religion to some extent. Like not allowing Turkey into EU). They could drop their so called allies at a drop of a hat or make one from their so called enemies. The phrase "There are permanent friends or enemies" perfectly fits the West.

While on the other hand Russia-China, coming from communistic mindset, implement their policies based on sharing and to carry everyone along. USSR did Business with India in Rupees while China passionately supported Pakistan even when they themselves were not very strong economically.

When it comes to sharing critical technologies no country in West comes close to Russia-China.

Never said no to that but i was just putting forward a case that what if INDIA says no to Russia what Russia can do and who has the upper hand in INDO-RUSSIAN scenario because most of the guys here think that Russia totally depends on INDIA and they can dictate them what to do and what not to do If Russia can go against the Half on the World in Ukraine matter or in any other matter than i think INDIA might not be a problem...

Either way i was just here to debate about this even though i myself don't believe Su 35 comming to PAK any time soon.......

 

[That Guy]

For you the statement given by Russian DFM & then Jane s defence journal is also nothing ?
So idiot ? You are ?
Cause no one will ever going to you , & ask hey idiot may we sell or buy these birds pls give us your permission ?lolzz

Janes has been wrong on multiple occasions. Besides, it mentions TALKS not signing of deals, clear difference that even you should be able to tell.

I know its hard for you, but try thinking.